Getrag 7 Speed MTI550 in other vehicles?

[L8apex]

Press button to turn on (as you described), press and hold to crank, I assume?

Exactly! Push button with the clutch out keys "on". Push button with clutch in, starts to crank, hold the button in until engine fires.

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[mjcutri]

hahaha keep believing that. Theyre phasing out manual Ts. This is THE last of the mohicans for american vehicles.

...now Bronco manual T? I think it’ll be pretty good. But give it4 yrs and no Bronco manual. Quote me on that.

Manual transmissions will be phased out over the next 15 years, but so will autos. Electric vehicles don't need all the speeds to be efficient. Some might have 2-speeds, but most will forgo any sort of transmission for a direct drive config. That being said, no way Ford spends all the money to develop the MT bronco only to drop it in 4 years. The take rate is high enough to keep it around through the mid-cycle refresh at a minimum. Maybe the "all-new" Bronco in 2031+ will drop the 7MT, but that version might be all electric anyway.

...Also hybrid ready so might have a possible future in the hybrid Bronco?

A hybrid Bronco is definitely coming in the future, but this stated capability has me optimistic that it could be offered with both transmissions. That would be a truly unique feature for the Bronco that nobody else offers. I would love to see a 2.3L EB hybrid with the 7MT.

...I see from the stats on this form that quite a percentage more of us are going with the automatic...

Right now the 7MT has a 15% total take rate (on par with wrangler), but when you filter out all the configurations where the manual isn't available (thanks, Ford), the take rate jumps to 79%!

I think if Ford hadn't artificially limited the 7MT trims/packages, the total take rate would have been over 20% and if they had offered a manual with the 2.7L EBV6, the total take rate would have been over 30%.

 

[abe]

It's new, but will be used in global trucks allegedly.

 

[3Dogs]

You know what I mean. Look at trucks. Toyota might be only manual T truck you can buy? American big 3 phased then out. They’re phasing them out of cars. Corvette? Phased out. Camaro you can still but give it 2-3 more yrs? Gone.
Like I said before in other thread, the big 3 are in the repair business nor the sales business. They make boat loads more on repairs than they do on vehicles. The vehicle is just a product. The services are where the moneys at I.e. service center. You think they care about Warranty work or how many repairs they have in vehicles?
Corvette? You literally have to suck the tranny fluid out from the top. No drain plug on the tranny. Service baby. Service....

now Bronco manual T? I think it’ll be pretty good. But give it4 yrs and no Bronco manual. Quote me on that.

Yeah, you have mentioned this several times.
But, do you actually have any data to back up this claim?
Everything I have read says that repairs cost auto manufacturers money. Any defect that causes a recall or warranty repair is an expense, not a profit.
If Ford is raking in boat loads of money replacing transmissions, I certainly don’t see it.

 

[grimmjeeper]

Yeah, you have mentioned this several times.
But, do you actually have any data to back up this claim?
Everything I have read says that repairs cost auto manufacturers money. Any defect that causes a recall or warranty repair is an expense, not a profit.
If Ford is raking in boat loads of money replacing transmissions, I certainly don’t see it.

I would believe that it applies to dealerships. They don't make a lot of money on top of their vehicle sales overall, especially for the high volume cars and trucks. But their service and parts department makes tons of money. Also, the kickbacks they get on financing deals and the aftermarket parts/upgrades (under coating, etc.) generate good revenue.

The manufacturer makes money on the sales of vehicles and potentially OEM branded parts. But not so much on repairs.

Warranties are managed by a separate organization I believe. The manufacturer gives them a chunk of money for each vehicle and the warranty department figures out a way to make a profit.

Recalls are probably outside the scope of warranties and are likely a direct cost to the manufacturer.

 

[toughtoaster]

Yeah, you have mentioned this several times.
But, do you actually have any data to back up this claim?
Everything I have read says that repairs cost auto manufacturers money. Any defect that causes a recall or warranty repair is an expense, not a profit.
If Ford is raking in boat loads of money replacing transmissions, I certainly don’t see it.

I think Wizard is referring to any repair that does not fall in the recall/warranty category. The repairs that occur after 5yr/60k warranty are the money makers for dealer service centers. Pretty sure Ford corporate doesn’t get a dime of that though so it gives them no incentive to make unreliable vehicles.

 

[JTBros]

You know what I mean. Look at trucks. Toyota might be only manual T truck you can buy? American big 3 phased then out. They’re phasing them out of cars. Corvette? Phased out. Camaro you can still but give it 2-3 more yrs? Gone.
Like I said before in other thread, the big 3 are in the repair business nor the sales business. They make boat loads more on repairs than they do on vehicles. The vehicle is just a product. The services are where the moneys at I.e. service center. You think they care about Warranty work or how many repairs they have in vehicles?
Corvette? You literally have to suck the tranny fluid out from the top. No drain plug on the tranny. Service baby. Service....

now Bronco manual T? I think it’ll be pretty good. But give it4 yrs and no Bronco manual. Quote me on that.

The manual with the corvette’s setup would have been incredibly difficult to accomplish and the take rate wasn’t even that high. Makes sense that they didn’t keep it.
But look at the other end of the market, new BRZ has manual, new civic SI will likely have one, Ford investing in the Mach 1 and giving it a Getrag, and I’m sure the Camaro take rate is high as well being that it’s often referred to as one of the best drivers cars.
And if we go to the polar opposite you have Porsche offering it in the new 911 GT3 as well as the new Cayman and Boxster. And BMW is also giving the new M3 & MThe new STI will also likely have a manual. It’s not dead yet and there’s clearly a market still.

"Best in class shiftability" means even a millennial can shift it

Personally I like my manual transmissions to feel like sloppy garbage with weird clutch grab points and barely able to discern 3rd from 5th. Might be hard to get used to a decent box.

 

[Wizard1183]

Manual transmissions will be phased out over the next 15 years, but so will autos. Electric vehicles don't need all the speeds to be efficient. Some might have 2-speeds, but most will forgo any sort of transmission for a direct drive config. That being said, no way Ford spends all the money to develop the MT bronco only to drop it in 4 years. The take rate is high enough to keep it around through the mid-cycle refresh at a minimum. Maybe the "all-new" Bronco in 2031+ will drop the 7MT, but that version might be all electric anyway.

A hybrid Bronco is definitely coming in the future, but this stated capability has me optimistic that it could be offered with both transmissions. That would be a truly unique feature for the Bronco that nobody else offers. I would love to see a 2.3L EB hybrid with the 7MT.


Right now the 7MT has a 15% total take rate (on par with wrangler), but when you filter out all the configurations where the manual isn't available (thanks, Ford), the take rate jumps to 79%!

I think if Ford hadn't artificially limited the 7MT trims/packages, the total take rate would have been over 20% and if they had offered a manual with the 2.7L EBV6, the total take rate would have been over 30%.

Ford offered the manual as a homage item. It’ll get phased out after 4 yrs which is when they change styles. 2025/26 Bronco will not look like today’s Bronco. Secondly what’s the % of manual Ts to 10spd? That will be your telling number. I KNOW that number will be extremely low. Most are going 2.7 no? No MT....

 

[mjcutri]

Ford offered the manual as a homage item. It’ll get phased out after 4 yrs which is when they change styles. 2025/26 Bronco will not look like today’s Bronco...

But seriously, do you even understand the product cycle for Ford? The 2025-2026 Bronco will be a mid-cycle refresh. It will look pretty much the same as the 2021 Bronco.

The last decade or so, Ford been on a tick-tock cycle for product releases:

• They release a new vehicle with existing powertrains
• A couple years later they update the powertrains (new/updated engines & transmissions)
• After about 4-6 years (4yrs is short for Ford, Honda popularized it but has since gone to 5yrs) they release a mid-cycle refresh (revised grilles, lights, bumpers, interior trims)
• After about 6-8 years they update powertrains again
• At 8-10 years the restart the cycle with a "new" version that might actually change suspension, dimensions, frame, etc.

The 2025-2026 Bronco will get a mid-cycle refresh, but the frame suspension, etc. will all be essentially the same. That is why I said they won't drop it until at least 2031.

Secondly what’s the % of manual Ts to 10spd? That will be your telling number. I KNOW that number will be extremely low. Most are going 2.7 no? No MT....

Like I said in my previous post,

Right now the 7MT has a 15% total take rate (on par with wrangler), but when you filter out all the configurations where the manual isn't available (thanks, Ford), the take rate jumps to 79%!

 

[Wizard1183]

But seriously, do you even understand the product cycle for Ford? The 2025-2026 Bronco will be a mid-cycle refresh. It will look pretty much the same as the 2021 Bronco.

The last decade or so, Ford been on a tick-tock cycle for product releases:

• They release a new vehicle with existing powertrains
• A couple years later they update the powertrains (new/updated engines & transmissions)
• After about 4-6 years (4yrs is short for Ford, Honda popularized it but has since gone to 5yrs) they release a mid-cycle refresh (revised grilles, lights, bumpers, interior trims)
• After about 6-8 years they update powertrains again
• At 8-10 years the restart the cycle with a "new" version that might actually change suspension, dimensions, frame, etc.

The 2025-2026 Bronco will get a mid-cycle refresh, but the frame suspension, etc. will all be essentially the same. That is why I said they won't drop it until at least 2031.


Like I said in my previous post,

I’ll be gone way before then. You’re entirely too optimistic and most certainly not informed. CAFE is by 2025. That would mean Bronco must get 54.5 mpg. I don’t care how you twist and turn it? No vehicles in 2025 is getting 54.5mpg with a 6spd manual. And they’re not making 10spd manuals are they? They’re far more likely to go to 13/14spd autos than 10spd manuals.

Corvette dropped the manual. Only the Camaro is left with a manual. (I’m sure a spark or small shoebox you may be able to get a manual?) truck line is gone. There is no truck in Ford GM or dodge you can get a manual. By your take? You should have one right?

like is said, kiss it (MT) goodbye by 2025.

 

[Wizard1183]

Yeah, you have mentioned this several times.
But, do you actually have any data to back up this claim?
Everything I have read says that repairs cost auto manufacturers money. Any defect that causes a recall or warranty repair is an expense, not a profit.
If Ford is raking in boat loads of money replacing transmissions, I certainly don’t see it.

Ok IF that was the case, wouldn’t the dealer have less work to do? Less vehicles to repair? Go into a dealer to get anything done at 9am. See if they’ll get to you immediately. They won’t tell the public this, but if you think they’re making vehicles last? You know know manufacturing well. Engineers design these things to last a certain amount of time then snap crackle pop. Why is it American vehicles only have a 36k mile warranty? 100k on drivetrain? Most drive trains last 100k. But 200k? Unicorn. Nothing is made to last. It’s made cheap so services make money. Or you buy another one. So I might be off on my assumption of service repair? But not on the fact vehicles only “look” good.

Apple used to make a rock solid phone. Now? You’re gonna be replacing every 2-3yrs. Of course vehicles will last a bit longer. But they’re not making it last too long to where you’re not having to go out and get another. More parts=more repairs. Fact! And vehicles weigh 2000lbs more than their previous classic models but are safer and more efficient. Safer and efficient do NOT equate to more reliable...

 

[mjcutri]

I’ll be gone way before then. You’re entirely too optimistic and most certainly not informed. CAFE is by 2025. That would mean Bronco must get 54.5 mpg. I don’t care how you twist and turn it? No vehicles in 2025 is getting 54.5mpg with a 6spd manual. And they’re not making 10spd manuals are they? They’re far more likely to go to 13/14spd autos than 10spd manuals.

Corvette dropped the manual. Only the Camaro is left with a manual. (I’m sure a spark or small shoebox you may be able to get a manual?) truck line is gone. There is no truck in Ford GM or dodge you can get a manual. By your take? You should have one right?

like is said, kiss it (MT) goodbye by 2025.

Dude, ok, you are so far off with that post, I don't even know where to start. I'm most definitely not the one who is uninformed here.

1. CAFE stands for Corporate Average Fuel Economy. Wikipedia That means that the average for ALL Ford vehicles would need to hit the standard, not any one model. By adding pure electric vehicles (Mustang Mach-e) at the top end of the range, they can keep lower mileage vehicles at the lower end (Bronco, Ranger, F-150) and still hit the target average for the whole lineup.

2. NO modern pure ICE vehicle is getting 54.5mpg with ANY transmission. (Again, no single vehicle needs to get it, because it is a Corporate AVERAGE) You are kidding yourself if you think adding any more gears to an auto will magically get the fuel economy from the current ~20-30ish mpg into the 50 mpg range. We have already seen diminishing returns from adding more gears. 10 is going to be the peak.

3. The ONLY way to meet the standard is through electrification, either hybrids or full electric. And what do you know, the 7MT supports hybridization. Huh, it's almost like they could see the writing on the wall that if they were going to keep a manual around, it would need to be able to support a hybrid configuration.

4. The MTI550 also supports 6 gears (without the crawler) which means it could end up in a hybrid version of the Mustang as well. This point is purely speculation on my part, but it sure would fit in well with Ford's current strategy.

If you are so sure that it will be gone by 2025, I say you put your money where your mouth is. I'll take the other side of that bet. We can settle it on this site: https://longbets.org/
How much are you willing to lose?

 

[3Dogs]

Ok IF that was the case, wouldn’t the dealer have less work to do? Less vehicles to repair? Go into a dealer to get anything done at 9am. See if they’ll get to you immediately. They won’t tell the public this, but if you think they’re making vehicles last? You know know manufacturing well. Engineers design these things to last a certain amount of time then snap crackle pop. Why is it American vehicles only have a 36k mile warranty? 100k on drivetrain? Most drive trains last 100k. But 200k? Unicorn. Nothing is made to last. It’s made cheap so services make money. Or you buy another one. So I might be off on my assumption of service repair? But not on the fact vehicles only “look” good.

Apple used to make a rock solid phone. Now? You’re gonna be replacing every 2-3yrs. Of course vehicles will last a bit longer. But they’re not making it last too long to where you’re not having to go out and get another. More parts=more repairs. Fact! And vehicles weigh 2000lbs more than their previous classic models but are safer and more efficient. Safer and efficient do NOT equate to more reliable...

This is one of these "things were made so much better fact when i was a kid" arguments.
Which, as everyone knows - is crap.
Cars are way more reliable today than they were 10, 20, 30, ... 100 years ago. A car with 100K on it today is just getting broken in. In the 1960s, it would have turned into a pile of rust by then.
A 200K warranty on a transmission? How much are you willing to pay for that?

As for the iPhone- most people don't replace their phones because they are broken, but rather because they want newer features. My 6 is going on 7 years, but it's getting pretty behind-the-times.

 

[Rick Astley]

A car with 100K on it today is just getting broken in. In the 1960s, it would have turned into a pile of rust by then.

I find this highly disconcerting. First i'm going to have to go get some rust on my 60 and 70 year old cars just so I can have a chance of rusting them out. (albeit, they don't have 100K miles combined).

Chevy's straight 6 was in production from 1929 through..... today. The "Mileage Maker" 235's were bullet proof and regularly saw 200K miles before needing rebuilds. These were carbureted motors that did not even have oil filters (I just removed the oil filter on my 235 equipped Fleetline to extend it's expected lifespan).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_straight-6_engine#235

I think what most people are confused about is that after PCV's were made mandatory by the mid 1960's, engine and vehicle lifespans started dropping significantly. Please don't confuse that we the pre-60's engines which were highly reliable, considering the engine development and manufacturing of the day.

Related to Bronco, that Pinto motor does good work these days, have you driven a 2019+ Ranger?

 

[Wizard1183]

Dude, ok, you are so far off with that post, I don't even know where to start. I'm most definitely not the one who is uninformed here.

1. CAFE stands for Corporate Average Fuel Economy. Wikipedia That means that the average for ALL Ford vehicles would need to hit the standard, not any one model. By adding pure electric vehicles (Mustang Mach-e) at the top end of the range, they can keep lower mileage vehicles at the lower end (Bronco, Ranger, F-150) and still hit the target average for the whole lineup.

2. NO modern pure ICE vehicle is getting 54.5mpg with ANY transmission. (Again, no single vehicle needs to get it, because it is a Corporate AVERAGE) You are kidding yourself if you think adding any more gears to an auto will magically get the fuel economy from the current ~20-30ish mpg into the 50 mpg range. We have already seen diminishing returns from adding more gears. 10 is going to be the peak.

3. The ONLY way to meet the standard is through electrification, either hybrids or full electric. And what do you know, the 7MT supports hybridization. Huh, it's almost like they could see the writing on the wall that if they were going to keep a manual around, it would need to be able to support a hybrid configuration.

4. The MTI550 also supports 6 gears (without the crawler) which means it could end up in a hybrid version of the Mustang as well. This point is purely speculation on my part, but it sure would fit in well with Ford's current strategy.

If you are so sure that it will be gone by 2025, I say you put your money where your mouth is. I'll take the other side of that bet. We can settle it on this site: https://longbets.org/
How much are you willing to lose?

Wrong. A 2000 VW Jetta TDI got 50mpg. A 90s geo metro got 50mpg. Both were ICE.

Diesel engines are 30% more efficient than gas. They should’ve offered diesel with manual 7spd out the gate. Secondly they’re making engines simpler. Not the big 3, but outside America simpler far more efficient designs. Will America adapt it?

I’ll be highly surprised if 2025/2026 models have manual. People pay for convenience. No ones buying a manual for convenience or heavy traffic. If you’re not selling many why sell at all? The R&D cost isn’t productive AT ALL now is it? Spend $10million (hypothetical number)on making a manual work to sell less isn’t really cost effective now is it?

you may be right and they’ll have 1 model with a MT in 2025. I’ll bet $1k by 2028 they’re gone

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