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Lab00Rat

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So you can pay more for the same car like Tesla does. No thank you!
With the dealer system dealers are in competition with each other providing us better than msrp pricing. They don’t make money on new car sales but they do on parts and service.
Sure, if you're talking about a Ford Fiesta.
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Richtor

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All I have ever owned are Fords. I’ve bought 19 brand new vehicles in 25 years including Platinum F150, Lincoln, GT500, GT350 to name a few. After being treated this way, I will never buy another Ford automobile and will trade the ones I have now in for something else. I honestly feel pretty ridiculous being loyal to them all these years when there were probably a lot better vehicles I could have been enjoying.
I totally agree.
Ford knows they will sell every Bronco they make, however they are making those who usually buy Porsche BMW MB(AMG) wait for a Bronco because Ford is more concerned with getting Broncos to dealers ahead of waiting reservation holders.

They are pissing off a new line of customers who can purchase any vehicle they want. Not a smart move!
 

69351windsor

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Repost & share this often!!
Ford Bronco Granger Ford -2022 Bronco Allocation - No one said it was going to be easy FORD greed
 

Bituman

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Franchise laws are crony capitalism. The NADA is one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington, DC. The only reason we can’t order a vehicle directly from the manufacturer is because the government protects dealers from other business models, which possibly could better serve the customer.
I think you have a good point, and how Ford has executed their allocation system is a good example of customers being harmed.

I've been pissed off about this since Friday. I live outside of Chicago, and the Ford dealers around me are all scumbags who won't be clear with you about anything. I've talked to a couple about transferring and no one will give me a straight answer on either pricing or allocations.

I'm keeping my Granger reservation, and since i'm an attorney, im seriously considering suing Ford for breach of contract. I think based upon my $100 dollar deposit and the communication from Ford about the reservation system, i can make a case out of it. I think we might have some consumer protection laws in Illinois that i might be able to rope in as well as extra counts to my complaint, i have to do some research.

Litigation is extremely time intensive and expensive and I don't have a problem with using my own time to make Ford bleed a little bit. It may not be a lot to the company, but we'll see what they come up with and how far they are willing to take it. I'll litigate it out to trial through discovery over the next 2 years and see if they want to flush a couple bronco's worth of profit down the toilet over one pissed off attorney who isn't getting his bronco until 2030.
I have a question counselor. On what basis are you going to sue Ford? How have you been financially harmed? Nobody is forcing you to buy a Bronco and there are reasonable alternatives. I am not an attorney so you have forgotten more than I know about the laws that apply here. But I have another idea.

In this case, wouldn’t it be better to go after Ford on the basis of anti-consumerism? I work for a large company and all the training they drum into our heads is that we can’t establish practices that harm consumers. What Ford has done with the Bronco allocation system is pretty much that. Ford’s allocation system in effect is forcing people to abandon a lower price purchase largely toward a higher price purchase. Of course, the same logic I applied to your proposed action against Ford applies here too. In other words, who is forcing anyone to purchase a Bronco at a higher price. They can buy a Jeep, Defender, 4Runner, etc. Or they can wait their turn for a (Granger) Bronco. The fact is, we aren’t trying to buy something that we need like a drug, it’s something we want.

I like dealer purchases about as much as a root canal, but I don’t want to go to the Tesla system. Unlike others, I think the dealer system we have, in most cases, allows customers to shop around and get a good deal.

In my opinion, besides pressure through social media (this thread for example), I think a congress person from a largely rural state (maybe Iowa) should drag some Ford execs before Congress to explain why their allocation system doesn’t violate anti-consumer laws. I don’t think Ford wants the Bronco brand associated with such a negative perception. There was a poster (Tricia?) that made a good point that rural dealers are probably going to sell a disproportionate number of F-150’s, which puts them at a disadvantage in the Bronco allocation system Ford just published. I understand that large dealers have too big of a lobby to make any real change to dealer franchise laws, which probably protects Ford when they do stupid stuff like this. But maybe the threat of having to explain, in person, their allocation system in front of a Congressional committee will cause Ford big shots to re-think their allocation strategy on the Bronco.

Again, I’m NOT an attorney but this really reeks of an anti-consumer practice. Maybe an attorney with franchise law expertise can offer a free opinion.

One last thought, Mr. Levine’s tweet response was pretty ill conceived and not a good look. He needs a handler to read that crap before he hits the submit button. Or if a handler sent the tweet, I’d fire the handler.
 

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bdub2you

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I've been pissed off about this since Friday. I live outside of Chicago, and the Ford dealers around me are all scumbags who won't be clear with you about anything. I've talked to a couple about transferring and no one will give me a straight answer on either pricing or allocations.

I'm keeping my Granger reservation, and since i'm an attorney, im seriously considering suing Ford for breach of contract. I think based upon my $100 dollar deposit and the communication from Ford about the reservation system, i can make a case out of it. I think we might have some consumer protection laws in Illinois that i might be able to rope in as well as extra counts to my complaint, i have to do some research.

Litigation is extremely time intensive and expensive and I don't have a problem with using my own time to make Ford bleed a little bit. It may not be a lot to the company, but we'll see what they come up with and how far they are willing to take it. I'll litigate it out to trial through discovery over the next 2 years and see if they want to flush a couple bronco's worth of profit down the toilet over one pissed off attorney who isn't getting his bronco until 2030.
As an attorney I made sure the wayback machine archived the FAQ terms and conditions of the reservation system because I suspected a clusterF after the first few hours of unsuccessfully trying to get a reservation in. I would note that the FAQ changed many times over the next year. Here is the original: https://web.archive.org/web/2020071...com/suvs/bronco/2021/reservation-information/

The most salient quote: "Reservations will be fulfilled in approximately the same order received, based on final ordering and production of similarly configured Broncos. All reservations will be completed before production of stock units begins."

This term magically changed later to: "Reservations will be fulfilled in approximately the same order received using timestamp, however, actual delivery may vary based upon a number of factors including vehicle model and configuration selected, part constraints, and the number of Bronco vehicles your dealer will receive."

There is a massive difference between those two clauses, and it basically sums up the screw job that happened over time.
 

jonwithanelcamino

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As an attorney I made sure the wayback machine archived the FAQ terms and conditions of the reservation system because I suspected a clusterF after the first few hours of unsuccessfully trying to get a reservation in. I would note that the FAQ changed many times over the next year. Here is the original: https://web.archive.org/web/2020071...com/suvs/bronco/2021/reservation-information/

The most salient quote: "Reservations will be fulfilled in approximately the same order received, based on final ordering and production of similarly configured Broncos. All reservations will be completed before production of stock units begins."

This term magically changed later to: "Reservations will be fulfilled in approximately the same order received using timestamp, however, actual delivery may vary based upon a number of factors including vehicle model and configuration selected, part constraints, and the number of Bronco vehicles your dealer will receive."

There is a massive difference between those two clauses, and it basically sums up the screw job that happened over time.
MASSIVE
 

Haystack

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I love how loyal and dedicated Granger reservation holders are. It's more than just the good deal that has won people over, it's being upfront, knowledgeable, trustworthy, and providing a great experience for something that has historically been a nightmare. Kudos to the whole Granger team.
 

OmahaKevin

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So you can pay more for the same car like Tesla does. No thank you!
With the dealer system dealers are in competition with each other providing us better than msrp pricing. They don’t make money on new car sales but they do on parts and service.
With Ford's lovely new allocation system the dealers aren't allowed to compete. ☹

Not sure how it is where you live but around here all of the Ford dealers are owned by just two auto groups. No real competition.
 

devildog0331

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I think you have a good point, and how Ford has executed their allocation system is a good example of customers being harmed.



I have a question counselor. On what basis are you going to sue Ford? How have you been financially harmed? Nobody is forcing you to buy a Bronco and there are reasonable alternatives. I am not an attorney so you have forgotten more than I know about the laws that apply here. But I have another idea.

In this case, wouldn’t it be better to go after Ford on the basis of anti-consumerism? I work for a large company and all the training they drum into our heads is that we can’t establish practices that harm consumers. What Ford has done with the Bronco allocation system is pretty much that. Ford’s allocation system in effect is forcing people to abandon a lower price purchase largely toward a higher price purchase. Of course, the same logic I applied to your proposed action against Ford applies here too. In other words, who is forcing anyone to purchase a Bronco at a higher price. They can buy a Jeep, Defender, 4Runner, etc. Or they can wait their turn for a (Granger) Bronco. The fact is, we aren’t trying to buy something that we need like a drug, it’s something we want.

I like dealer purchases about as much as a root canal, but I don’t want to go to the Tesla system. Unlike others, I think the dealer system we have, in most cases, allows customers to shop around and get a good deal.

In my opinion, besides pressure through social media (this thread for example), I think a congress person from a largely rural state (maybe Iowa) should drag some Ford execs before Congress to explain why their allocation system doesn’t violate anti-consumer laws. I don’t think Ford wants the Bronco brand associated with such a negative perception. There was a poster (Tricia?) that made a good point that rural dealers are probably going to sell a disproportionate number of F-150’s, which puts them at a disadvantage in the Bronco allocation system Ford just published. I understand that large dealers have too big of a lobby to make any real change to dealer franchise laws, which probably protects Ford when they do stupid stuff like this. But maybe the threat of having to explain, in person, their allocation system in front of a Congressional committee will cause Ford big shots to re-think their allocation strategy on the Bronco.

Again, I’m NOT an attorney but this really reeks of an anti-consumer practice. Maybe an attorney with franchise law expertise can offer a free opinion.

One last thought, Mr. Levine’s tweet response was pretty ill conceived and not a good look. He needs a handler to read that crap before he hits the submit button. Or if a handler sent the tweet, I’d fire the handler.
I have a number of ideas on this, but so you know, courts can award equitable remedies as well as legal (monetary) remedies. The most simple but weakest angle is simply a breach of contract action. I have to think about this a little more, but i certainly remember giving 100 bucks in trade for a place in line. Is that a contract? I don't know, i guess i'll find out, but I don't hate it. Illinois also has a law that prevents deceptive trade practices which include attorney's fees and damages, this one looks like it has potential as well. Now as you mentioned, monetary damages are hard to prove up in this case, although with some work i think i may be able to figure something out. Here's where it gets better, promissory estoppel, also known as detrimental reliance in some states.

the elements necessary to prove this are:

● A promise is made that is reasonably expected to induce action or forbearance (by the promissor;

● An action or forbearance is carried out (by the promisee) that is based on justifiable reliance on the promise; and

● Injustice can be avoided only through enforcement of the promise.

This seems to be my route most likely to be fruitful. Don't forget, i only need to survive a motion to dismiss to start litigation, and a properly pled complaint is all it takes. I think the necessary facts are here to make it work. Discovery is a powerful tool and will give me access to everything i need to prove my case right up to text messages off the CEO's telephone. All those changes made to the website about the reservations, yeah....i'm going to know all about every little period, comma, and word that was changed on the website and when and why it happened. All the social media and announcements by Ford about how they will fill customer orders before they send out dealer stock, rack it up in my disco pile. I'll get all internal communications about how the 22 allocation system came to be. There will probably be some juicy stuff about this breaking of promises on the inside i'm assuming.

Hell hath no fury like an attorney scorned because he can't get his Bronco until 2045.
 

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jonwithanelcamino

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I have a number of ideas on this, but so you know, courts can award equitable remedies as well as legal (monetary) remedies. The most simple but weakest angle is simply a breach of contract action. I have to think about this a little more, but i certainly remember giving 100 bucks in trade for a place in line. Is that a contract? I don't know, i guess i'll find out, but I don't hate it. Illinois also has a law that prevents deceptive trade practices which include attorney's fees and damages, this one looks like it has potential as well. Now as you mentioned, monetary damages are hard to prove up in this case, although with some work i think i may be able to figure something out. Here's where it gets better, promissory estoppel, also known as detrimental reliance in some states.

the elements necessary to prove this are:

● A promise is made that is reasonably expected to induce action or forbearance (by the promissor;

● An action or forbearance is carried out (by the promisee) that is based on justifiable reliance on the promise; and

● Injustice can be avoided only through enforcement of the promise.

This seems to be my route most likely to be fruitful. Don't forget, i only need to survive a motion to dismiss to start litigation, and a properly pled complaint is all it takes. I think the necessary facts are here to make it work. Discovery is a powerful tool and will give me access to everything i need to prove my case right up to text messages off the CEO's telephone. All those changes made to the website about the reservations, yeah....i'm going to know all about every little period, comma, and word that was changed on the website and when and why it happened. All the social media and announcements by Ford about how they will fill customer orders before they send out dealer stock, rack it up in my disco pile. I'll get all internal communications about how the 22 allocation system came to be. There will probably be some juicy stuff about this breaking of promises on the inside i'm assuming.

Hell hath no fury like an attorney scorned because he can't get his Bronco until 2045.
Dude. How do we start a fund for you? You’ve got your head screwed on straight for this one :)

We’ve got your back. Internet will win again, always does
 

devildog0331

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As an attorney I made sure the wayback machine archived the FAQ terms and conditions of the reservation system because I suspected a clusterF after the first few hours of unsuccessfully trying to get a reservation in. I would note that the FAQ changed many times over the next year. Here is the original: https://web.archive.org/web/2020071...com/suvs/bronco/2021/reservation-information/

The most salient quote: "Reservations will be fulfilled in approximately the same order received, based on final ordering and production of similarly configured Broncos. All reservations will be completed before production of stock units begins."

This term magically changed later to: "Reservations will be fulfilled in approximately the same order received using timestamp, however, actual delivery may vary based upon a number of factors including vehicle model and configuration selected, part constraints, and the number of Bronco vehicles your dealer will receive."

There is a massive difference between those two clauses, and it basically sums up the screw job that happened over time.
Despite the change in the language with the "number of Bronco vehicles your dealer will recieve", there is still a lot there that helps me. A lot of talk about how Ford anticipates some customers may not get a Bronco until 22 MY. Maybe one day, someone from Ford will have to sit on the stand and explain to the jury how 22MY accidentally extended to 25MY because they are greedy fucks. So you could have fufilled all these reservations in 22 but chose not to?
 

Lazerus

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As an attorney I made sure the wayback machine archived the FAQ terms and conditions of the reservation system because I suspected a clusterF after the first few hours of unsuccessfully trying to get a reservation in. I would note that the FAQ changed many times over the next year. Here is the original: https://web.archive.org/web/2020071...com/suvs/bronco/2021/reservation-information/

The most salient quote: "Reservations will be fulfilled in approximately the same order received, based on final ordering and production of similarly configured Broncos. All reservations will be completed before production of stock units begins."

This term magically changed later to: "Reservations will be fulfilled in approximately the same order received using timestamp, however, actual delivery may vary based upon a number of factors including vehicle model and configuration selected, part constraints, and the number of Bronco vehicles your dealer will receive."

There is a massive difference between those two clauses, and it basically sums up the screw job that happened over time.
Was just perusing Levine's twitter feed and he's not only still pushing the 'then switch to a dealer with more allocation' bullshit, but is posting that dealer allocation has always been a factor in when reservation holders would get their Bronco's
Ford Bronco Granger Ford -2022 Bronco Allocation - No one said it was going to be easy Screenshot_20211011-212251_Twitter

Though in the section about 'Reservation Timestamp' it mentions having received over 190,000 reservations. This was clearly written after the initial round of reservations.

Orwell's animal farm is alive and well at Ford corporate....
 

jonwithanelcamino

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Was just perusing Levine's twitter feed and he's not only still pushing the 'then switch to a dealer with more allocation' bullshit, but is posting that dealer allocation has always been a factor in when reservation holders would get their Bronco's
Ford Bronco Granger Ford -2022 Bronco Allocation - No one said it was going to be easy Screenshot_20211011-212251_Twitter

Though in the section about 'Reservation Timestamp' it mentions having received over 190,000 reservations. This was clearly written after the initial round of reservations.

Orwell's animal farm is alive and well at Ford corporate....
“Always”
 

Richtor

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With Ford's lovely new allocation system the dealers aren't allowed to compete. ☹

Not sure how it is where you live but around here all of the Ford dealers are owned by just two auto groups. No real competition.
Sure they can. That’s why Granger offered $2k below invoice and others are saying above msrp.

Where do I get a new Tesla below msrp?
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