Granger Ford July Update - Allocation for September Production, Current wait list, 2023 Speculation

[Beach_Bum]

Thanks, mea culpa for misquoting, not trying to confuse an already confusing policy for anyone.

I did ask Samantha about the '22 increase that should be in Vincent, for me that should have been $975 since I was a BD and was told I lose it all but sounds like it should be there and I just lose anything after that?

I'm not following your question on the last part. My guess you are referring to the price increase from MY'22 --> MY'22.5? If so, that difference was locked in (as long as you didn't change door count, trim, engine, etc.). That retail PP was in the form of a credit that Ford issues to the dealer after the sale. There is no "certificate" for retail PP. Most dealers applied the credit at the time of the sale as a measure of good faith. But their books wouldn't balance until up to 45 days later when Ford actually issued the credit to them. Some dealers completed the sale based on the sticker price and any private offers extended to the buyer (actual PP cert. in Smart Vincent). But any credits issued later would be remunerated when they received the credit.

Going forward, we can only make assumptions that PP will work like it did for the MY'21 --> MY'22 transition. There is no reason that it will change or become even more complicated (if that is possible) for MY'23. But until Ford actually communicates the MY'23 PP policy, we are left to make assumptions based on the prior year's policy.

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[Lowcountry Bronco]

I'm not following your question on the last part. My guess you are referring to the price increase from MY'22 --> MY'22.5? If so, that difference was locked in (as long as you didn't change door count, trim, engine, etc.). That retail PP was in the form of a credit that Ford issues to the dealer after the sale. There is no "certificate" for retail PP. Most dealers applied the credit at the time of the sale as a measure of good faith. But their books wouldn't balance until up to 45 days later when Ford actually issued the credit to them. Some dealers completed the sale based on the sticker price and any private offers extended to the buyer (actual PP cert. in Smart Vincent). But any credits issued later would be remunerated when they received the credit.

Going forward, we can only make assumptions that PP will work like it did for the MY'21 --> MY'22 transition. There is no reason that it will change or become even more complicated (if that is possible) for MY'23. But until Ford actually communicates the MY'23 PP policy, we are left to make assumptions based on the prior year's policy.

I probably should have added that for '23 I'll be switching from BD to HE. As for the timing I was early reservation, 99 order placed since the beginning as well. If I'm following correctly the first price increase was based on what you had on order and at that point you could change your series or door count, so that's where the $975 number comes from. So is that what should be in Vincent under my name? And since that particular offer allowed a change it should carry over?

Subsequent price protection offers stated you couldn't change series so those I understand that I would lose, the first offer as described above should still be valid and in the system for use when I change to an HE standard. Per the Ford FAQ:

"For customers with an order or reservation on or before March 19, 2021, you are able to apply your certificate to a different series for the 2022 and 2023 MYs. However, your certificate amount will reflect the series you ordered or reserved on or before October 1, 2021. Changing your series, equipment package, number of doors, or 4x4 system after March 7, 2022, will cause your order to update with new mid-year price levels."

That last sentence confuses me though, does it invalidate the first price protection offer?

Thanks, not trying to get too far in the weeds on pricing but whatever savings I can get help.

 

[dingle87]

I probably should have added that for '23 I'll be switching from BD to HE. As for the timing I was early reservation, 99 order placed since the beginning as well. If I'm following correctly the first price increase was based on what you had on order and at that point you could change your series or door count, so that's where the $975 number comes from. So is that what should be in Vincent under my name? And since that particular offer allowed a change it should carry over?

Subsequent price protection offers stated you couldn't change series so those I understand that I would lose, the first offer as described above should still be valid and in the system for use when I change to an HE standard. Per the Ford FAQ:

"For customers with an order or reservation on or before March 19, 2021, you are able to apply your certificate to a different series for the 2022 and 2023 MYs. However, your certificate amount will reflect the series you ordered or reserved on or before October 1, 2021. Changing your series, equipment package, number of doors, or 4x4 system after March 7, 2022, will cause your order to update with new mid-year price levels."

That last sentence confuses me though, does it invalidate the first price protection offer?

Thanks, not trying to get too far in the weeds on pricing but whatever savings I can get help.

That last sentence is the one that has me concerned as well. I guess we’ll find out, but i don’t like flying blind into situations involving money.

 

[Beach_Bum]

I probably should have added that for '23 I'll be switching from BD to HE. As for the timing I was early reservation, 99 order placed since the beginning as well. If I'm following correctly the first price increase was based on what you had on order and at that point you could change your series or door count, so that's where the $975 number comes from. So is that what should be in Vincent under my name? And since that particular offer allowed a change it should carry over?

Subsequent price protection offers stated you couldn't change series so those I understand that I would lose, the first offer as described above should still be valid and in the system for use when I change to an HE standard. Per the Ford FAQ:

"For customers with an order or reservation on or before March 19, 2021, you are able to apply your certificate to a different series for the 2022 and 2023 MYs. However, your certificate amount will reflect the series you ordered or reserved on or before October 1, 2021. Changing your series, equipment package, number of doors, or 4x4 system after March 7, 2022, will cause your order to update with new mid-year price levels."

That last sentence confuses me though, does it invalidate the first price protection offer?

Thanks, not trying to get too far in the weeds on pricing but whatever savings I can get help.

So I think we are already in the weeds here. But we can apply some logic.

First, the private offers that exist in Smart Vincent have conditions and do expire. They are good for the MY they are issued for. The cert. must match the buyer's name and be applied to a MY'22 Bronco.

Second, we know that there will be no price protection for a standard HE (implied Limited HE), Everglades, Raptor. Why? Because those trims didn't exist for MY'21. The whole premise of the certificate is to price protect the buyer who ordered a trim and has been pushed to the next model year due to no fault of their own.

Now, there is a hypothetical scenario that may exist, but I'm sure Ford has an exclusionary clause in the fine print. But humor me on this: What if a long time order holder (pre-3/19/21) opted for a MY'22 Everglades? Well, they know there is no certificate that would apply as the Everglades wasn't an option for MY'21. But Ford's inability to build those that switched to an Everglades is no fault of the buyer. If those same buyers choose to opt for a MY'23 Everglades, then there was a prior MY'22 Everglades to compare against in which case, the honorable policy would be to price protect the MY'23 Everglades from price increases for those buyers that have been waiting. Now, extrapolate that scenario for the standard HE. No certificate for MY'23 standard HE, but if someone is kicked to MY'24 then they should be protected from increases for a MY'24 standard HE. Ford right now has exclusions for limited production vehicles (HEL) and Ford Performance vehicles (Raptor).

Now back to your direct question from Ford's FAQ. That paragraph is conflating two policies. We have the private offer PP certificate in Smart Vincent. And then there is the Retail PP from mid-year increases. Ignore the fact that Granger is offering the below invoice deals. In general, dealers sell at MSRP. Most dealers will honor the price when the vehicle is ordered regardless when it is delivered as long as no changes are made to the build. Now, many experienced problems with the retail PP this year as not all dealers handle it the same. Ford evaluates the sale and if it applies will issue a credit to a dealer for any mid-year price increases. At which time when the credit is issued, the dealer will issue a credit to the buyer. Some dealers will apply the credit at the time of the sale and will essentially have a negative balance on the books until Ford issues the appropriate credit which can take up to 45 days. Others will wait until they have the overage on the books and will then remunerate the balance to the customer. In my build week of 3/14, we had orders at the beginning of the week with MY'22 window stickers and orders at the end of the week with MY'22.5 window stickers. SNAFU.

As it applies to you specifically, your current private offer in Smart Vincent is based on the MY'21 --> MY'22 trim differences. But that cert is only good towards delivery of a MY'22 Bronco. That ship has sailed. It would be logical to assume that the old certificate amount will be the same or more for a MY'23 Bronco. But we also must accept that the large certificate amounts were for the Black Diamond and Badlands as the MY'21 trims came with the modular bumper as standard. For MY'22, the capable bumper was standard and the modular was optional. Ford still price protected the cost of the modular bumper as it was standard on the MY'21. When determining values, Ford only considers standard options from year to year. For the MY'22 --> MY'23 certificate, it stands to reason that the modular bumper will no longer be factored into the equation as the capable bumper will be standard on both model years.

 

[2DoorForSure]

For those who ordered after 3/19/21, there is no price protection. They were only protected from the mid-year price increase. For MY'23, they will likely be starting over and will eventually have to lock their order to avoid the price increase from MY'23 to MY'23.5.

Why don't you think Ford will add another layer of price protection for those with MY22 orders? e.g. you reserved mid 2021 (after the March 21 cutoff date), ordered in October 2021 for MY22, but didn't get a vehicle (and were protected from MY22.5 pricing). I think it would only make sense for those who reserved to get MY22 protection against MY23 increases, and not walk-in orders. But then again, this is Ford and they really know how to treat their loyal reservation holders.

 

[Beach_Bum]

Why don't you think Ford will add another layer of price protection for those with MY22 orders? e.g. you reserved mid 2021 (after the March 21 cutoff date), ordered in October 2021 for MY22, but didn't get a vehicle (and were protected from MY22.5 pricing). I think it would only make sense for those who reserved to get MY22 protection against MY23 increases, and not walk-in orders. But then again, this is Ford and they really know how to treat their loyal reservation holders.

It would be nice for Ford to do so. But they have made no commitment in stating such. Whereas Ford has communicated that PP would be extended to MY'23 for early reservation holders. We'll find out soon enough what the MY'23 PP looks like. One thing we can count on is that there are going to be a lot of questions and unhappy order holders.

 

[Lowcountry Bronco]

So I think we are already in the weeds here. But we can apply some logic.

First, the private offers that exist in Smart Vincent have conditions and do expire. They are good for the MY they are issued for. The cert. must match the buyer's name and be applied to a MY'22 Bronco.

Second, we know that there will be no price protection for a standard HE (implied Limited HE), Everglades, Raptor. Why? Because those trims didn't exist for MY'21. The whole premise of the certificate is to price protect the buyer who ordered a trim and has been pushed to the next model year due to no fault of their own.

Now, there is a hypothetical scenario that may exist, but I'm sure Ford has an exclusionary clause in the fine print. But humor me on this: What if a long time order holder (pre-3/19/21) opted for a MY'22 Everglades? Well, they know there is no certificate that would apply as the Everglades wasn't an option for MY'21. But Ford's inability to build those that switched to an Everglades is no fault of the buyer. If those same buyers choose to opt for a MY'23 Everglades, then there was a prior MY'22 Everglades to compare against in which case, the honorable policy would be to price protect the MY'23 Everglades from price increases for those buyers that have been waiting. Now, extrapolate that scenario for the standard HE. No certificate for MY'23 standard HE, but if someone is kicked to MY'24 then they should be protected from increases for a MY'24 standard HE. Ford right now has exclusions for limited production vehicles (HEL) and Ford Performance vehicles (Raptor).

Now back to your direct question from Ford's FAQ. That paragraph is conflating two policies. We have the private offer PP certificate in Smart Vincent. And then there is the Retail PP from mid-year increases. Ignore the fact that Granger is offering the below invoice deals. In general, dealers sell at MSRP. Most dealers will honor the price when the vehicle is ordered regardless when it is delivered as long as no changes are made to the build. Now, many experienced problems with the retail PP this year as not all dealers handle it the same. Ford evaluates the sale and if it applies will issue a credit to a dealer for any mid-year price increases. At which time when the credit is issued, the dealer will issue a credit to the buyer. Some dealers will apply the credit at the time of the sale and will essentially have a negative balance on the books until Ford issues the appropriate credit which can take up to 45 days. Others will wait until they have the overage on the books and will then remunerate the balance to the customer. In my build week of 3/14, we had orders at the beginning of the week with MY'22 window stickers and orders at the end of the week with MY'22.5 window stickers. SNAFU.

As it applies to you specifically, your current private offer in Smart Vincent is based on the MY'21 --> MY'22 trim differences. But that cert is only good towards delivery of a MY'22 Bronco. That ship has sailed. It would be logical to assume that the old certificate amount will be the same or more for a MY'23 Bronco. But we also must accept that the large certificate amounts were for the Black Diamond and Badlands as the MY'21 trims came with the modular bumper as standard. For MY'22, the capable bumper was standard and the modular was optional. Ford still price protected the cost of the modular bumper as it was standard on the MY'21. When determining values, Ford only considers standard options from year to year. For the MY'22 --> MY'23 certificate, it stands to reason that the modular bumper will no longer be factored into the equation as the capable bumper will be standard on both model years.

Thanks Beach bum, seems you've been my go to for the past couple of months. If we ever cross paths drinks are on me.

 

[mcinfantry]

True, but that doesn't mean that Granger may or may not be extending private offers. I too just got the same email from Samantha (poor girl must be getting slammed).
I am hopeful that maybe I will be offered a private offer with my 2022 pricing, despite the fact that my reservation was not made until June 2021.

If I don't get a private offer, I might make significant changes to my order, since there is no penalty for doing so at that point. Worst case scenario is that I don't like the price increase and just walk, but Ford would have to really jack up the price to the point that I would not want any Bronco (I don't see that happening), but I do have a number that I won't exceed for my Bronco.

Regardless, if I buy a Bronco, it will be through Granger... I will not reward Ford by buying elsewhere.

You got a second order? I thought I saw you got yours!

 

[Little Foot]

You got a second order? I thought I saw you got yours!

He has one he bought off a lot, but not his Granger order with the options he wants…If I remember correctly.

 

[mcinfantry]

He has one he bought off a lot, but not his Granger order with the options he wants…If I remember correctly.

Gotcha!

 

[mpeugeot]

He has one he bought off a lot, but not his Granger order with the options he wants…If I remember correctly.

Actually, I got the one I ordered, but my girlfriend wants one, I had an available reservation with Granger, so I decided to place an order knowing that it would take forever.

My Bronco is awesome though and I got it just under MSRP.

2021 OBX with Badlands shocks and springs on 33.5" tires. 2.7, lux, and Tow.

 

[Little Foot]

Actually, I got the one I ordered, but my girlfriend wants one, I had an available reservation with Granger, so I decided to place an order knowing that it would take forever.

My Bronco is awesome though and I got it just under MSRP.

2021 OBX with Badlands shocks and springs on 33.5" tires. 2.7, lux, and Tow.

I thought you had issues with your AAFES order and picked up a dealer stock order for some reason….Sorry for the misinformation

What size tire did you go with?

 

[mpeugeot]

I thought you had issues with your AAFES order and picked up a dealer stock order for some reason….Sorry for the misinformation

What size tire did you go with?

That's a 295/70R17 (33.5" actual height) on a 17x9 +30 offset RTR Tech 6 rim. Fits with the crash bars and stock OBX suspension.

I have now removed the OBX suspension and crash bars. I am running the D sku shocks front and rear, with the K sku springs up front and F sku springs in the rear (allegedly for a 2 door Badlands 2.7 with tow). Overall it is stiffer and sits higher than I expected, but works really on washboard road at 50 mph, it's almost like the washboard doesn't exist (you can hear it, but you really aren't getting bounced around at all).

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