Help me self-squatch my Badlands

[4avor8ntfair]

Hey all,
I’m working towards self-squatching my non-SAS BL, and I was curious for constructive feedback on how the Zone 1221 might compare with a “cheaper” coilover option like the 6100’s. ~ $175 vs $1,100 parts.
I know there’s the perch collar options as well, and lots of coil overs. I’ve mostly settled on my decision being between Zone’s hybrid 2” lift and the Bilstein 6100’s. As far as I can tell, the 6100’s seem to be at a great point of cost vs quality…and it already came with Bilstein
I’m mostly daily driving, but want it capable. I took it to Moab earlier this year, and I’m sure I’ll go back, but I’m doing more local in Texas. After that Moab trip, I decided I only wanted and extra ~2” lift. I’ll probably only 1-3 trips per year going forward. I can’t justify $4-5k for King or Fox, but I could probably justify 6100’s.
I did already buy the Zone UCA’s when I found them on sale, as I figured it’d help improve geometry for whichever way I go.

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[NJRoadkill]

I’m kind of in the same boat. I don’t want much lift over the stock. Looking toward performance. OE Plus.

I’m holding out a bit to see if Ford performance will offer a FOX package. If not I’ll probably go with Old Man Emu when they offer it for the 2D. They already have packages for the 4D. I do like that OME I can pick my coil.

ARB USA OME

I don’t like that the 6100 is still using a type of thin perch collar. It looks like an unneeded weak link to me. same with ICON and the others. I don’t know why they can’t offer it with a truly adjustable, threaded-type perch without the remote reservoir.

 

[goatman2]

Hey all,
I’m working towards self-squatching my non-SAS BL, and I was curious for constructive feedback on how the Zone 1221 might compare with a “cheaper” coilover option like the 6100’s. ~ $175 vs $1,100 parts.
I know there’s the perch collar options as well, and lots of coil overs. I’ve mostly settled on my decision being between Zone’s hybrid 2” lift and the Bilstein 6100’s. As far as I can tell, the 6100’s seem to be at a great point of cost vs quality…and it already came with Bilstein
I’m mostly daily driving, but want it capable. I took it to Moab earlier this year, and I’m sure I’ll go back, but I’m doing more local in Texas. After that Moab trip, I decided I only wanted and extra ~2” lift. I’ll probably only 1-3 trips per year going forward. I can’t justify $4-5k for King or Fox, but I could probably justify 6100’s.
I did already buy the Zone UCA’s when I found them on sale, as I figured it’d help improve geometry for whichever way I go.

OK, first question is what tire size you're going to run? Self-squatch seems to imply 35" tires. Sasquatch lift over normal Badlands is only like .5" more, which will handle 35's with a bit less offset in the wheel. Why do you want more lift?

You said mostly daily driver, but want to do a few trips to Moab. I've been to Moab a ton of times, and for Moab I'd strongly prefer a stock Badlands. The stability of the lower height, lower center of gravity, and 33" tires is perfect for Moab. So, why do you want a lift?

The stock Bilsteins on the Badlands have slightly more travel than the SAS shocks, which is a nice thing. The stock Bilsteins have pretty good position sensitive valving, which is pretty nice, and could be pretty hard to improve on. A simple 1" spacer lift and the stock shocks could easily handle 35's and keep the pretty darn good shocks. So, why do you want a lift? What are you thinking you will gain by lifting more than necessary and replacing pretty darn good shocks with something that might not be as good for what you want to do? 6100 shocks have a slightly bigger diameter. Bigger diameter allows more fluid volume which gives more cooling, and more cooling helps the shocks to not fade when running hard for longer distances. If you're not going to run hard in the desert for long distances, then you're giving up the position sensitive shock valving of the stock Badlands shocks for no good reason. The position sensitive valving resists bottoming out on hard hits and jumps, and it resists full extension shock when jumping or a really big hit with big rebound. Without that a car should have limit straps to keep from damaging the shock with fast extension bottoming.

So, you asked for a bit of feedback. Why do you want to change shocks and lift your Bronco more than it needs?

 

[Rickperry]

I agree with goatman on keeping the badlands suspension.

While I don’t have personal experience with the 6100, I don’t imagine it would be worth changing the factory tuned bilsteins. If you’re happy with the ride comfort and travel of the oem badlands, adding a 1-2inch level kit and 35s will be exactly what you’re looking for.
I really recommend trying the level kit before anything else, it could save you a lot of money.
For reference, I have a base bronco upgraded with badlands suspension + 1inch level kit + 33s and it is the same ride height as my SAS Badlands on true 35.5inch tires.

 

[4avor8ntfair]

OK, first question is what tire size you're going to run? Self-squatch seems to imply 35" tires. Sasquatch lift over normal Badlands is only like .5" more, which will handle 35's with a bit less offset in the wheel. Why do you want more lift?

You said mostly daily driver, but want to do a few trips to Moab. I've been to Moab a ton of times, and for Moab I'd strongly prefer a stock Badlands. The stability of the lower height, lower center of gravity, and 33" tires is perfect for Moab. So, why do you want a lift?

The stock Bilsteins on the Badlands have slightly more travel than the SAS shocks, which is a nice thing. The stock Bilsteins have pretty good position sensitive valving, which is pretty nice, and could be pretty hard to improve on. A simple 1" spacer lift and the stock shocks could easily handle 35's and keep the pretty darn good shocks. So, why do you want a lift? What are you thinking you will gain by lifting more than necessary and replacing pretty darn good shocks with something that might not be as good for what you want to do? 6100 shocks have a slightly bigger diameter. Bigger diameter allows more fluid volume which gives more cooling, and more cooling helps the shocks to not fade when running hard for longer distances. If you're not going to run hard in the desert for long distances, then you're giving up the position sensitive shock valving of the stock Badlands shocks for no good reason. The position sensitive valving resists bottoming out on hard hits and jumps, and it resists full extension shock when jumping or a really big hit with big rebound. Without that a car should have limit straps to keep from damaging the shock with fast extension bottoming.

So, you asked for a bit of feedback. Why do you want to change shocks and lift your Bronco more than it needs?

Hey Goatman, thanks for your feedback! I was actually hoping to get your input! I did go through Hell’s Revenge with the Zone 1” level and my 33’s and I could make it through 90% of what I tried. What I couldn’t make it through seemed mostly to be from clearance. My guide had suggested a 1-2” lift to go back through. He took a fun pic of one of the spots I tried but where I needed a bit of extra clearance….he made it through but I had to take a different line.
I understand that I don’t want to lift too high, which why I was only considering the extra 1-2” over what I have now with my leveling kit. I kinda think the zone 2” hybrid kit would be the perfect amount but wasn’t sure. I don’t have any immediate plans to jump from 33’s. I’ve pulled them on and off a couple of times and don’t really have any desire to change a 35” tire.

 

[Cbiggs]

If you haven’t seen it yet, check out the build thread from @OJ_Loose . Good luck!

Thread 'KC 50 inch on 2 door - Self-Squatch Complete!'
https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/kc-50-inch-on-2-door-self-squatch-complete.48928/

 

[goatman2]

Hey Goatman, thanks for your feedback! I was actually hoping to get your input! I did go through Hell’s Revenge with the Zone 1” level and my 33’s and I could make it through 90% of what I tried. What I couldn’t make it through seemed mostly to be from clearance. My guide had suggested a 1-2” lift to go back through. He took a fun pic of one of the spots I tried but where I needed a bit of extra clearance….he made it through but I had to take a different line.
I understand that I don’t want to lift too high, which why I was only considering the extra 1-2” over what I have now with my leveling kit. I kinda think the zone 2” hybrid kit would be the perfect amount but wasn’t sure. I don’t have any immediate plans to jump from 33’s. I’ve pulled them on and off a couple of times and don’t really have any desire to change a 35” tire.

I get it, more clearance is a good thing, and our Broncos could use more. More clearance includes diffs and shock mounts, which only get higher with larger tires. So, only limited benefit of lifting the truck and not also increasing the tire size. No matter what lift height and tire size, picking the right line is always necessary. We have a tendency to drive to our vehicles capability, so we'll always need to choose the line that will work for the equipment we're driving. Personally, I'd go tire size over more lift height. Just enough lift to work with the bigger tires. However, I also realize that with a 4dr breakover angle (like in the pic) is a big deal.

All depends on what we want. I'd run Hell's Revenge in my 2" lift unlocked XJ on 31's with no issues. I ran Fins and Things last year in the XJ and it had 30" tires, and I didn't air down at all or disconnect the sway bar. Still had the RV tow bar brackets on the front. People I came across asked me how the heck did I get my XJ back there? I said I drove it.

Since you have a 4dr, I get wanting another inch or two of lift, but I would also plan for 35's when you can, to get what you really want. Have fun!

 

[4avor8ntfair]

I get it, more clearance is a good thing, and our Broncos could use more. More clearance includes diffs and shock mounts, which only get higher with larger tires. So, only limited benefit of lifting the truck and not also increasing the tire size. No matter what lift height and tire size, picking the right line is always necessary. We have a tendency to drive to our vehicles capability, so we'll always need to choose the line that will work for the equipment we're driving. Personally, I'd go tire size over more lift height. Just enough lift to work with the bigger tires. However, I also realize that with a 4dr breakover angle (like in the pic) is a big deal.

All depends on what we want. I'd run Hell's Revenge in my 2" lift unlocked XJ on 31's with no issues. I ran Fins and Things last year in the XJ and it had 30" tires, and I didn't air down at all or disconnect the sway bar. Still had the RV tow bar brackets on the front. People I came across asked me how the heck did I get my XJ back there? I said I drove it.

Since you have a 4dr, I get wanting another inch or two of lift, but I would also plan for 35's when you can, to get what you really want. Have fun!

Ok, thanks! I guess I need to budget for 35’s when these wear out, and order the Zone 2” lift to get a bit more clearance and keep all the stock Bilstein performance

 

[NJRoadkill]

OK, first question is what tire size you're going to run? Self-squatch seems to imply 35" tires. Sasquatch lift over normal Badlands is only like .5" more, which will handle 35's with a bit less offset in the wheel. Why do you want more lift?

You said mostly daily driver, but want to do a few trips to Moab. I've been to Moab a ton of times, and for Moab I'd strongly prefer a stock Badlands. The stability of the lower height, lower center of gravity, and 33" tires is perfect for Moab. So, why do you want a lift?

The stock Bilsteins on the Badlands have slightly more travel than the SAS shocks, which is a nice thing. The stock Bilsteins have pretty good position sensitive valving, which is pretty nice, and could be pretty hard to improve on. A simple 1" spacer lift and the stock shocks could easily handle 35's and keep the pretty darn good shocks. So, why do you want a lift? What are you thinking you will gain by lifting more than necessary and replacing pretty darn good shocks with something that might not be as good for what you want to do? 6100 shocks have a slightly bigger diameter. Bigger diameter allows more fluid volume which gives more cooling, and more cooling helps the shocks to not fade when running hard for longer distances. If you're not going to run hard in the desert for long distances, then you're giving up the position sensitive shock valving of the stock Badlands shocks for no good reason. The position sensitive valving resists bottoming out on hard hits and jumps, and it resists full extension shock when jumping or a really big hit with big rebound. Without that a car should have limit straps to keep from damaging the shock with fast extension bottoming.

So, you asked for a bit of feedback. Why do you want to change shocks and lift your Bronco more than it needs?

all valid points. Thanks.

Note OP has the auto transmission. So it has different axels and ratio then the manual non-sas Badlands.

Sasquatch suspension also has an addtional inch of bump-stop., reducing articulation/travel..

 

[mpeugeot]

Hey all,
I’m working towards self-squatching my non-SAS BL, and I was curious for constructive feedback on how the Zone 1221 might compare with a “cheaper” coilover option like the 6100’s. ~ $175 vs $1,100 parts.
I know there’s the perch collar options as well, and lots of coil overs. I’ve mostly settled on my decision being between Zone’s hybrid 2” lift and the Bilstein 6100’s. As far as I can tell, the 6100’s seem to be at a great point of cost vs quality…and it already came with Bilstein
I’m mostly daily driving, but want it capable. I took it to Moab earlier this year, and I’m sure I’ll go back, but I’m doing more local in Texas. After that Moab trip, I decided I only wanted and extra ~2” lift. I’ll probably only 1-3 trips per year going forward. I can’t justify $4-5k for King or Fox, but I could probably justify 6100’s.
I did already buy the Zone UCA’s when I found them on sale, as I figured it’d help improve geometry for whichever way I go.

Me personally, I would spend the money on the 6100's as opposed to the other types of lifts. The 6100's are a legitimate improvement to the suspension. Puck lifts and the other cheap approaches don't improve the ride and they don't address the suspension geometry either.

One person above made a really good comment about how ESCV might be better in a rock crawling scenario (and I 100% agree with him on that specific use case). The standard Badlands can easily run a 34" tire as well.

Finally, I agree with another post above, that a truly adjustable threaded perch would be my preferred way to go.

 

[goatman2]

Me personally, I would spend the money on the 6100's as opposed to the other types of lifts. The 6100's are a legitimate improvement to the suspension. Puck lifts and the other cheap approaches don't improve the ride and they don't address the suspension geometry either.

One person above made a really good comment about how ESCV might be better in a rock crawling scenario (and I 100% agree with him on that specific use case). The standard Badlands can easily run a 34" tire as well.

Finally, I agree with another post above, that a truly adjustable threaded perch would be my preferred way to go.

See, I have to somewhat disagree about a couple things. The position sensitive shocks with the increased valving rate at both bump and rebound help the go fast stuff more than the slow stuff. It's a simple bypass shock, and bypass shocks are all about the desert and not about rocks and trails, though they can help on access roads and rough trails.

Regarding better geometry with a new shock over pucks, if the new shock is 2" longer, then geometry wise it is exactly the same as a 2" puck. Only thing that would affect geometry is different length control arms that would deal with camber changes or a new knuckle that would deal with control arm angles. A longer shock is just that, a longer shock, regardless of how you get there. Now, if the longer shock allowed a bit more travel, that would be usable considering tire clearance and control arm angles, then there would be a benefit in slightly more travel. And, restating what I said previously, the 6100's are not necessarily an improvement to the suspension. When replacing a Badlands or SAS shock, you loose the position sensitive bump zones, so no improvement there. The larger shock body diameter provides more cooling, which is only an issue and benefit for long runs through rough desert where there is a risk of heat induced shock fading. So, it is not an automatic that a different shock is better. And it is not an automatic that a different shock is better than a spacer.

Nothing wrong with 6100 shocks, but make a change with good information.

 

[Erock]

@goatman2 , I understand what you’re saying as far as the original shocks and high speed running, but I can’t see where the OP was saying they were gonna be doing that. Are there other reasons you seem adamant about keeping the original shocks over the 6100’s? Like maybe how they perform on the road or what not? Granted, I’m neither a rock crawler, nor a desert runner… but we never know what the future holds. BTW, no argument from me, just following along.

 

[goatman2]

@goatman2 , I understand what you’re saying as far as the original shocks and high speed running, but I can’t see where the OP was saying they were gonna be doing that. Are there other reasons you seem adamant about keeping the original shocks over the 6100’s? Like maybe how they perform on the road or what not? Granted, I’m neither a rock crawler, nor a desert runner… but we never know what the future holds. BTW, no argument from me, just following along.

Sorry, not adamant, just trying to clear up real reasons for wanting to change and why. If we're talking about a non-SAS or non-Badlands then no argument from me. I'm simply trying to point out that there has to be a reason for considering one shock as better than another...it isn't automatic. As far as ride or handling, I have no info to go on to compare.

However, let's talk about what makes one shock better than another. Feel, ride comfort, and stability all relate to shock valving. A softer valving could give a better ride, but would bottom out easier off road. Likewise a stiffer shock could have a less comfortable/firmer ride yet have more resistance to bottoming out off road, and would provide more stability on road and off road. So, which is better. And, who knows if the 6100 has stiffer or softer valving. The benefit of the position sensitive shock is that it can give a decent ride and yet also resist bottoming out much better than a non position sensitive shock.

Same applies to spring rates. Stiffer spring, firmer ride and less bottoming. This is where a variable rate spring comes to play. Softer at ride height but increases rate as it compresses to resist bottoming. I believe the factory coils are progressive/variable rate. What is the spring rate of the 6100 coilovers? We can look at King, Bilstein, Fabtech, and whatever else. They are all made with quality parts, and the parts are virtually identical, so what's the difference? It's all spring rate and valving.

My main point is know what you have, know what you might get, and know why you want to do it.

 

[acetdeucy]

Hey all,
I’m working towards self-squatching my non-SAS BL, and I was curious for constructive feedback on how the Zone 1221 might compare with a “cheaper” coilover option like the 6100’s. ~ $175 vs $1,100 parts.
I know there’s the perch collar options as well, and lots of coil overs. I’ve mostly settled on my decision being between Zone’s hybrid 2” lift and the Bilstein 6100’s. As far as I can tell, the 6100’s seem to be at a great point of cost vs quality…and it already came with Bilstein
I’m mostly daily driving, but want it capable. I took it to Moab earlier this year, and I’m sure I’ll go back, but I’m doing more local in Texas. After that Moab trip, I decided I only wanted and extra ~2” lift. I’ll probably only 1-3 trips per year going forward. I can’t justify $4-5k for King or Fox, but I could probably justify 6100’s.
I did already buy the Zone UCA’s when I found them on sale, as I figured it’d help improve geometry for whichever way I go.

I'm not sure if you've seen my recent post... which included my experience with the Zone 2"/1" lift/level. Personally, I would go with the Bilstein 6112 option, if I had it to do over again! I will include it in this response, so enjoy:

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...ss-pricey-installer-in-sd.52125/#post-1555641

 

[Erock]

I think with the 6100’s you reuse your original springs. The claim is that they are an upgrade for the factory shocks and happen to be adjustable length for lift.

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