Here’s why you won’t see an electric Bronco

[BrentC]

I find it interesting what is being discussed without talking about drones becoming the main mode of transportation. Electric cars may be a thing but only for a short period of time.

The advantages for using drones for travel and commuting are much higher then what cars can ever have. No longer needing to maintain roads, bridges and other infrastructure could save a lot of money. Yes there would be other new costs but the efficient aspect would be huge. Thinking of electric cars when the Jetsons is probably just as likely to be the next big thing.

The limiting factor with battery powered time-of-flight is chemistry. Battery technology relies on chemical energy storage (in simplistic terms) and there is no foreseeable way to significantly improve battery storage. If anyone tells you otherwise, ask them to prove it.

Overlooking the impossibility of mining enough material to mobilize the world with EVs (another topic), there is a practical limit in flight for how much lift power can be generated for the weight of the batteries. There is a reason why virtually all drones of all sizes have a flight time of 20-25 minutes because that’s the maximum you can achieve with battery capacity/weight.

So battery powered drones may become an expensive way to commute short distances, but they won’t be as efficient than EVs, which will never be as efficient as ICEs.

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[Nellman]

The limiting factor with battery powered time-of-flight is chemistry. Battery technology relies on chemical energy storage (in simplistic terms) and there is no foreseeable way to significantly improve battery storage. If anyone tells you otherwise, ask them to prove it.

Overlooking the impossibility of mining enough material to mobilize the world with EVs (another topic), there is a practical limit in flight for how much lift power can be generated for the weight of the batteries. There is a reason why virtually all drones of all sizes have a flight time of 20-25 minutes because that’s the maximum you can achieve with battery capacity/weight.

So battery powered drones may become an expensive way to commute short distances, but they won’t be as efficient than EVs, which will never be as efficient as ICEs.

I think you need to look at drones again. The flight time is 30+ minutes. Spend more money get more flight time. DJI Matrice 300 is 55 minutes as one example. Industrial drones have much longer flight times. This is for rotary drones. Move to fixed wing and you get longer flight time, easily over an hour.

You are also are making a huge assumption on electric drones. Make the drones ICE, another fuel source or combination.

If efficiency is the goal, then remove the human driving the vehicle and it becomes significantly more efficient.

 

[BrentC]

I think you need to look at drones again. The flight time is 30+ minutes. Spend more money get more flight time. DJI Matrice 300 is 55 minutes as one example. Industrial drones have much longer flight times. This is for rotary drones. Move to fixed wing and you get longer flight time, easily over an hour.

You are also are making a huge assumption on electric drones. Make the drones ICE, another fuel source or combination.

If efficiency is the goal, then remove the human driving the vehicle and it becomes significantly more efficient.

Thanks for the update and the tip, I will check it out. I’m curious how they’ve achieved these improvements.

There is always going to be a practical flight time limit, however, and I believe it will be short. More powerful propulsion means you need more energy delivered, meaning you consume your available battery power faster. Adding more batteries adds more weight, which in turn reduces your cargo load capacity and/or shortens your flight time. It’s always a tradeoff (like it is for FF-powered aircraft) and the much-lower energy density of batteries combined with their weight is the reason they have comparably much shorter flight times.

I love drones and the technology, BTW. I am a mechanical engineer and grew up making and flying radio controlled airplanes so I really appreciate the control systems in them. My comments are strictly for the battery-powered aspect of them.

Interesting discussion.

 

[BroncoBuckaroo]

Re: charging stations

I just drove from Montana to Wisconsin. I used to poo-poo electric vehicles saying “how will you ever drive an electric vehicle across eastern Montana or North Dakota ?”. Well, I now have to eat my words, there are charging stations all over the place now. Including some remote places that really surprised me.

Here is the problem with electric, unless you have time to wait at the fastest 45 min for a charge on a super charger type platform ..it's slow going. The average fora home charger is 20hours. I don't have that kind of time or discipline. When I need to fill up .. I'm not going to plan out for that..completely silly. In addition the super chargers make the batteries wear out faster and hold less of a charge over time . I don't care if they get it down to a 10 min charge, not going to do it. Japan has went completely the other direction, they are going with hydrogen fuel cells..they are putting hydrogen stations all across Japan. Fast fuel up, no hauling heavy batteries around, and none of the toxic battery left overs, not to mention relying on rare earth elements to make those batteries from only two sources world wide.

Either way, this stuff is years out , and the infrastructure is not there to handle the power needed to produce enough electricity if just 20% of all vehicles used were fully electric. We are at about 1% full electric vehicles now..you think the 1973 oil crisis was bad..just wait ...

 

[maxmxa]

For a lot of people it's a paradigm shift to think fully electric. It is doable and it's going to be the way of near future. I leased an electric car for two years and it was hard to go back to gas afterwards. It just takes getting used to and you'll never miss the gas again.
For now and few years down the road a hybrid - electric will probably be a good compromise for most people. It gives you both worlds and saves you gas.
To those thinking EVs are also polluting the air, just think of it as how much you save on each fill-up at the gas station every week and how you'll never have to change your oil again. Every time I see that diesel pickup driver being mad who floors the accelerator pedal to leave a giant black smoke cloud and piss off the people behind, I wish we would move faster towards electric.

 

[Hoofnmouth]

Hybrid planes are here and being developed for commercial use already. Demonstrations are happening in Hawai’i, but of course this is light travel with a short distance. Still, it’s awesome to see!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.st...ic-plane-conducts-first-flight-in-hawaii/amp/

Pilot to passengers please pass up all cell phone batteries or we are not making it to maui,youl will be rewarded wit 5000 miles or a voucher thank you for your cooperation.

 

[Girryn]

So battery powered drones may become an expensive way to commute short distances, but they won’t be as efficient than EVs, which will never be as efficient as ICEs.

33.7 kWh in a gallon of gas. Not sure about you but I do not know of any vehicles with 2 gallon fuel tanks going over 300 miles on a fill.

Here is the problem with electric, unless you have time to wait at the fastest 45 min for a charge on a super charger type platform ..it's slow going. The average for a home charger is 20hours.

Super chargers only take that long if you want to top off the battery to >90%. Also the metric for a home charger is overnight. The optional Tesla wall charger takes 7 hours. Plug the included charger into a 240v dryer outlet and it takes 11. That is also if you drained the entire battery that day. If your daily commute is 300 miles then you are an idiot for not relocating but you can still recharge overnight.

Engineering Explained just put out a video on a winter road trip in a Model 3 without the heat pumps improved efficiency. It is a good watch that compares the road trip to summer and doing it in an ICE vehicle.

Japan has went completely the other direction, they are going with hydrogen fuel cells..they are putting hydrogen stations all across Japan. Fast fuel up, no hauling heavy batteries around, and none of the toxic battery left overs, not to mention relying on rare earth elements to make those batteries from only two sources world wide.

Either way, this stuff is years out , and the infrastructure is not there to handle the power needed to produce enough electricity if just 20% of all vehicles used were fully electric. We are at about 1% full electric vehicles now..you think the 1973 oil crisis was bad..just wait ...

Fuel cells produce electricity with 10 times the platinum group metals as catalytic converters, it should not be hard sourcing enough to replace ICE vehicles by recycling their cats. Or we could just switch to cobalt free batteries like Tesla is already doing.

Half of the power consumption in Texas is spent on air conditioning so I am sure we can figure out how to accommodate electric vehicles. Currently Texas can handle 100% electrification of the vehicles used in state if they are charged during non peak hours, like you know... when you are sleeping.

 

[Rough Rider]

Rivian ran the Rebelle Rally with their R1T, they can offroad it. However they brought their own infrastructure and charging stations to the desert to do it. However, they had to bring gas cans for the ICE vehicles..... sounds comprable! just a heck of a lot easier to transport gas than electricity into the back woods

 

[Girryn]

just a heck of a lot easier to transport gas than electricity into the back woods

That is why I want a cybertruck with the extendable solar array. I do not know of any vehicles that refuel themselves at the trailhead while I am hiking.

 

[Rough Rider]

That is why I want a cybertruck with the extendable solar array. I do not know of any vehicles that refuel themselves at the trailhead while I am hiking.

Its been done...its not hugely effective.....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradte...tric-car-but-its-false-green/?sh=1d46261537e3

 

[Girryn]

Its been done...its not hugely effective.....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradte...tric-car-but-its-false-green/?sh=1d46261537e3

First, I doubt that is getting to the trailhead.

Second, I imagine they intend to use a type of PV cell that is restricted to flat surfaces. Flexible solar is not as efficient so it is a good thing the bed cover on a CT is flat and angled toward the sun if parking permits. Elon says 15 miles a day so even accounting for his optimistic overestimating it would be an improvement. I mostly just want to offset the self discharge rate of the battery so anything extra is just a perk.

 

[Pl8to]

As someone who works aerospace and UAVs, it'll be a bit before electric aircraft will be super viable for any distances. However some of the current prototypes are getting really good at short distances (also have some good safety features, you don't automatically die in an accident).

In regards to the thread topic of electric vehicles being used off-road, I think some of the offerings that are coming up soon like the Rivian can be used for 90% of peoples off-road uses. Honestly it's similar to needing 37s on your Bronco, 90% of off roaders don't need them. In regards to charging time, that is getting better and better, I think it was Hyundai maybe that just demo'd a quick charger that adds 75 miles in 5 minutes.

In reality off-roading with an electric vehicle will probably be viable by the time my Bronco gets delivered. ?

 

[MacHudson]

For a lot of people it's a paradigm shift to think fully electric. It is doable and it's going to be the way of near future. I leased an electric car for two years and it was hard to go back to gas afterwards. It just takes getting used to and you'll never miss the gas again.
For now and few years down the road a hybrid - electric will probably be a good compromise for most people. It gives you both worlds and saves you gas.
To those thinking EVs are also polluting the air, just think of it as how much you save on each fill-up at the gas station every week and how you'll never have to change your oil again. Every time I see that diesel pickup driver being mad who floors the accelerator pedal to leave a giant black smoke cloud and piss off the people behind, I wish we would move faster towards electric.

sounds great - I’ll just chill at the Starbucks while I plug into the street lamp

 

[maxmxa]

sounds great - I’ll just chill at the Starbucks while I plug into the street lamp

Exactly! Nothing beats not having to go to a gas station again and spend around $70 or so to fill-up. Charging is sooooo much cheaper. I installed a 220V charger at home and all I had to do was to plug in at night. I also never noticed much of a jump in my electric bill to be concerned. I miss my EV and will probably get another one in the future.
Right now, being home most of the time there's just no need for any new vehicle, but when things change there will be many options out there (including the CyberTruck).

 

[MacHudson]

Exactly! Nothing beats not having to go to a gas station again and spend around $70 or so to fill-up. Charging is sooooo much cheaper. I installed a 220V charger at home and all I had to do was to plug in at night. I also never noticed much of a jump in my electric bill to be concerned. I miss my EV and will probably get another one in the future.
Right now, being home most of the time there's just no need for any new vehicle, but when things change there will be many options out there (including the CyberTruck).

I think you missed my sarcasm. Look at the picture. Where am I going to plug in?

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