How comfortable are you in directly negotiating with dealers?

[Desert6]

After a 30+ year career in retail sales before switching to consulting, I've got no problem with getting down into the weeds with negotiating with the dealer. In fact I rather enjoy it. I'm always polite and respectful when negotiating as a customer, and I always keep in mind that despite all the dealer's attempts to convince you otherwise, you're in control if you choose to be.

Sponsored

 

[dcg2]

Yes, you will have dealer that do the b/s adds and I will include the doc fee in that because there is no law that states dealers have to do it.
...
Make sure they price you get includes destination/delivery, sale price, tax, doc, accessories, tire tax BEFORE you get into the finance office.

So in Pennsylvania the dealers have done something cute.

They got a law passed that IF they charge a doc fee they HAVE TO charge everyone that same doc fee. No exceptions.

So individual dealerships can still set there own doc fee or none at all.

What they will try to do is then tell you "we have to charge that it's state law in PA". Trying to make it to be a state mandated thing.

Knowing this I will negotiate the price of the car (having called ahead of time so I know what their doc fee is). If we get to an agreeable price I will shake the salesmans hand and confirm "This is what I'm paying for the car?" Yep...

Then they roll out the doc fee. Slip it in as part of tax & title, etc.

Then I tell them look I negotiated in good faith with you that $ was the price I was paying for the car, now your adding an additional fee on?

"State law, we have to charge everyone that fee".

Ok, well then let's reduce the price of the car we agreed to so we end up at the same place.

They get to charge their fee, I get to not pay it.

 

[flip]

So in Pennsylvania the dealers have done something cute.

They got a law passed that IF they charge a doc fee they HAVE TO charge everyone that same doc fee. No exceptions.

So individual dealerships can still set there own doc fee or none at all.

What they will try to do is then tell you "we have to charge that it's state law in PA". Trying to make it to be a state mandated thing.

Knowing this I will negotiate the price of the car (having called ahead of time so I know what their doc fee is). If we get to an agreeable price I will shake the salesmans hand and confirm "This is what I'm paying for the car?" Yep...

Then they roll out the doc fee. Slip it in as part of tax & title, etc.

Then I tell them look I negotiated in good faith with you that $ was the price I was paying for the car, now your adding an additional fee on?

"State law, we have to charge everyone that fee".

Ok, well then let's reduce the price of the car we agreed to so we end up at the same place.

They get to charge their fee, I get to not pay it.

That is typically what happens. If they charge a doc they have to charge everyone or get into huge issues with regulators.

Let's use the example of no trade and they are selling at invoice. You agree on selling price which may have tax, D&D listed, sometimes just selling price and tax. They will take you to the finance office and hit you with D&D, adds and doc. which will generally be $1500-$2,000 more than what the sales guy (desk) agreed to.

They know everyone can buy for invoice so start there. Be up front if you are bringing your own money or planning on them financing. When working numbers start at invoice, make sure they are including sales tax, doc, add, prep or any other "crap" they would normally spring on you in the F&I office. Tell them you are not paying doc or adds (unless you want a particular add) at which time they will go into the whole, "everyone has to pay those fees" spiel which you will tell them to adjust the vehicle selling price to offset those fees and make sure they put it in writing. If they agree, your paperwork will still show you paid the fees which will keep them out of trouble but should be offset in vehicle selling price.

How bad do they want your business? They will make a little on the vehicle but have a shot at some back end money if they do financing, sell an ESP, accessories or other products. Bottom line is there are ways to not pay a doc even though it shows you did. Depends how bad they want your business (both short term via a sale and long term as a service customer). If they don't want to play ball and these fees are a deal killer for you either financially or simply a matter of principle, move on. There will be another dealer that wants your business and doesn't play these f-f games.

 

[Freebird32]

Looking for a car is a great experience, kind of like exploring because you don't know what you really want, kid-in-a-candy-store kind of thing. Buying one on the other hand is unpleasant and painful. It takes way too long. You have to sign 20-30 pieces of paper, even without a loan. You are with a salesman, sales manager, finance guy whose primary purpose is to part you from your money, they will try to wear you down, test your patience, and they have had thousands of hours of practice to hone that process, and they know it.
I would be happier buying one from a car vending machine.

Sponsored