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I feel like this is a lot of us right now

TeocaliMG

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the fastest vehicles have been running IFS for decades
One thing i'd add, is that they are doing it with 4x4, like the old Bronco did. All the winners now are ultra long travel 2wd ifs (much easier to do) so if they can have a moderate travel IFS with 4x4 make it through, that's a fair bit more impressive to me.

The other thing that annoys me is all the IFS bandwagon posters who are operating on the false premise that solid axles are completely uncompetitive from a ride and handling perspective
Amen, this also bothers me, both set ups can be made to do both actually fairly well, but it takes more investment and may be an overall compromise for each respective use.

I totally get what you are saying about the plethora of IFS rigs out there, I guess the big reason I wanted the Bronco to be IFS is because the only production vehicle that I like the set up on is the raptor which is also too big for my needs (i'll give a half pass to the ZR2 but its travel limited, and fugly) The Bronco had a chance to show the US market that IFS can do everything including crawl when needed, much in the same way that you would like to show that SFA can do everything as well as run when needed.
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78CreamBrownie

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The other thing that annoys me is all the IFS bandwagon posters who are operating on the false premise that solid axles are completely uncompetitive from a ride and handling perspective. Yes, IFS does lend itself better to these characteristics, but most people would be pretty hard pressed to notice a difference between the two.

I agree with your points and you have more or less hit the nail on the head.

The new JLs ride and handle about as well as you can expect a tall 4x4 with compliant suspension and big heavy tires to drive.
As a 2018 JL Wrangler and 2014 JK owner, I agree with this 100%. They are not even close in comparison and if Ford would work with DANA like Jeep did they could build a SFA that makes everyone happy. If you have not experienced the SFA on the new JL then you don't know what you are missing. I commute 60 miles a day in my JL Wranger Rubicon and the ride always surprises people when they ride with me for the first time. They expect it to ride like a log truck and it's quite the opposite.

With all of that being said I am not against IFS and it having a IFS not deter me from buying a new BroncoBronco.
 

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Running Baja doesnā€™t prove shit. The Raptor did it too and has the same junk IWEs that the F-150 has. My brother already had one fail on his bone stock ā€˜18 with 30k miles.

Iā€™m not totally opposed to a quality IFS but I have zero faith that Ford will use anything but wider Ranger parts on the Bronco. I guarantee these parts are a regular failure point for stock rigs and a deal breaker for anyone doing any moderate wheeling. Ford is banking on most Bronco owners being pavement pounders like Raptor owners.
 

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My frustration with IFS is that there are plenty of IFS "off roaders" already on the market, many of which are marketed for high speed offroad (Raptor, TRD Pro lineup, ZR2, etc.). There is only one solid axle offroad vehicle, the Wrangler (I consider the Gladiator to be a version of the Wrangler). I was really hoping for another option for those of us who like difficult technical trails.
This is a fair complaint and in a perfect world we'll all get what we want. For me all the current IFS offroaders set up for high speed are significantly too large. For my use on small BC roads I need something 2 door wrangler sized, but with the ability to go fast. Hence my excitement about an IFS Bronco.

The other thing that annoys me is all the IFS bandwagon posters who are operating on the false premise that solid axles are completely uncompetitive from a ride and handling perspective. Yes, IFS does lend itself better to these characteristics, but most people would be pretty hard pressed to notice a difference between the two.
One could probably argue the same about the SFA posts who are operating under the premise that IFS vehicles can't drive over anything more than a curb without breaking a CV joint. Both certainly have advantages and disadvantages, but the difference between the two certainly doesn't come into play until more extreme situations than people think, in either direction.

For my personal experience, I've had Wranglers try to compete in the rallies that I've won in my IFS Pajero...they don't do well. The handling over ruts and washboard with the SFA is reportedly not pleasing at speed. Now, I haven't driven one myself, but that's enough for me to not want to.
 

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I keep seeing comments about the Bronco NEEDING a SFA on these forums. Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion and I can only imagine the backlash I will get for the following statements. But the way I see it:

1. Not every "potential" Bronco owner is interested in rock crawling. And feel free to educate me further, but isn't the biggest benefit to a SFA the ability to navigate over large rocks while keeping all tires on the ground?
2. IFS works for probably 90% (if not more) of potential owners. It wouldn't surprise me if Ford does go with IFS. All I want is a capable 4wd Bronco that can tow a trailer with quads and I'm happy.
3. Not EVERY Jeep purchased is used for rock crawling. Yes, I bought a 2017 Wrangler for the wife. Some angry eyes, new tires & wheels and a sunrider top later and she loves her Jeep. Which is by far the majority of Jeep owners I see on the road today.

So to end this post, if the Bronco in any way resembles either the 1st gen Bronco's or 5th gen, I will more than likely purchase one. And for all those who complain the wait is too long, "I'm going to buy a Jeep because I can't wait to see IF the Bronco has SFA"..... Should just go BUY A JEEP and stop complaining. I'm sure you'll be happy with your purchase. Because from MY point of view, I'm a Bronco man, not a Jeep guy, there is no question for me what I'd buy!
 

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TeocaliMG

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Running Baja doesnā€™t prove shit. The Raptor did it too and has the same junk IWEs that the F-150 has. My brother already had one fail on his bone stock ā€˜18 with 30k miles.

Iā€™m not totally opposed to a quality IFS but I have zero faith that Ford will use anything but wider Ranger parts on the Bronco. I guarantee these parts are a regular failure point for stock rigs and a deal breaker for anyone doing any moderate wheeling. Ford is banking on most Bronco owners being pavement pounders like Raptor owners.
Lets just say that I disagree on what the Baja 1000 proves. Search any forum anywhere and you will find as much anecdotal information as you want regarding reliability. I have already talked to the testing we do on our truck chassis. It makes other trucks look like a joke, or more cost efficient depending on your paygrade. There is no reason to think that Ford cant improve on IWE systems for new models or that if they used an SFA like the super duty they would magically have a superior solenoid.
 
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And for all those who complain the wait is too long, "I'm going to buy a Jeep because I can't wait to see IF the Bronco has SFA"..... Should just go BUY A JEEP and stop complaining. I'm sure you'll be happy with your purchase. Because from MY point of view, I'm a Bronco man, not a Jeep guy, there is no question for me what I'd buy!
As soon as I knew I wouldnā€™t be able to get one for around 2 years I did this. Love my Jeep, but in all honesty Iā€™m never going to use the capability of a SFA in such an expensive vehicle. At least for me I canā€™t risk destroying a $40,000 vehicle running collateral damage. Iā€™ll probably pick up an XJ Cherokee, YJ, or even a SxS for more serious crawling one day but for all of my needs the Bronco seems great.
 

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There is no reason to think that Ford cant improve on IWE systems for new models or that if they used an SFA like the super duty they would magically have a superior solenoid.
Well they havenā€™t made any improvements since 2004. Either generation of Raptor would have been an excellent time to design something robust enough for a stock street driven F-150.

It has nothing to do with the solenoid. Even when working properly the IWEs still fail because the splines are only engaging 1/4ā€ of the hub.

At least when the super duty vacuum system fails it defaults to unlocked and lets you manually lock the hubs. And you can easily swap in manual hubs. No such go around for Fordā€™s Baja-proven Raptor.
 
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When I do run more moderate trails, it is usually the 4runners, FJ Cruisers, and H3s
Ford probably spent more money than all of these vehicleā€™s developments combined developing the Broncoā€™s suspension.
 
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JimmyDean

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This is a fair complaint and in a perfect world we'll all get what we want. For me all the current IFS offroaders set up for high speed are significantly too large. For my use on small BC roads I need something 2 door wrangler sized, but with the ability to go fast. Hence my excitement about an IFS Bronco.

One could probably argue the same about the SFA posts who are operating under the premise that IFS vehicles can't drive over anything more than a curb without breaking a CV joint. Both certainly have advantages and disadvantages, but the difference between the two certainly doesn't come into play until more extreme situations than people think, in either direction.

For my personal experience, I've had Wranglers try to compete in the rallies that I've won in my IFS Pajero...they don't do well. The handling over ruts and washboard with the SFA is reportedly not pleasing at speed. Now, I haven't driven one myself, but that's enough for me to not want to.
Yeah, while I am a strong SFA advocate for the B, I feel like your uses that you describe would be much more beneficial to an IFS. thebig issue with SFA is of course that the tires don't act independently. hit a rut or bump, both tires go off camber even though one may still be on flat ground.
 

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Jalisurr

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Speaking from a racing/competition perspective, you see solid front axles in desert racing, Ultra4, and formula 4x4, but you dont see any independent suspensions in unlimited class rock crawling. The solid front axle has proven to still be competitive in high speed, throttle down off road motorsports, but independent suspension is conspicuously absent in competitive rock crawling.
Desert racing trucks are almost entirely IFS when the class allows it, SFA would not be competitive at high levels. The international Rally Raid competitions also see only IFS vehicles win. That's the championship that includes the Dakar Rally, which is certainly a tough high level off road race.

I'll admit to not being particularly knowledgeable about Ultra4 or Formula 4x4, but don't those include significant 'rock crawling' sections? I feel like if anything the fact that there are IFS vehicles there proves that when the terrain you are on is mixed between open and rocks...both IFS and SFA can work with either having advantages and disadvantages. I'd be interested to see some statistics on win rates on different kinds of courses between the two designs.
 
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Based on what? It appears to be a pretty conventional SLA IFS when you look past the high dollar shocks and bumpstops. The upper and lower A-arms look similar to aftermarket A-arms available for other models and I do not believe they are production pieces. I don't see where the magic fairy dust went. I believe that Ford had more rigorous durability testing on the Bronco's front suspension than most other models receive, but I do not see anything innovative or unique compared to models that already exist.
Teocali has implied there is a lot to show with the front suspension still. He hasnā€™t been wrong or misleading yet so Iā€™m gonna give him the benefit of the doubt.

Also, the rear suspension setup seems pretty hardcore for a ā€œproduction intentā€ design, seems that they will have the IFS to match for the production version.
 
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TeocaliMG

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Well that just sets me up for failure ;) lol I posted way back on how both SFA and IFS are dependent on geometry to perform well. I don't doubt that a lot of work has gone into tuning the IFS or the rear solid axle geometry on the Bronco. To pair with this is testing, specifications, and willingness to spend money where its needed. These are things that Ford has done well lately, to a fault honestly. Look at the new explorer compared to the Palisade/Telluride sisters. To an engineer or enthusiast they are not even in the same ball park, but our execs are freaking out because to most people, and even some magazines the Palisade/telluride sisters are the bargain, and offer value where people want it. Like the infotainment, instead of rwd chassis dynamics. This mentality has infected a lot of our products which is great for the consumer and terrible for our investors lol.

You are right that the actual arms are not production, similarly it wont have the hydraulic jounce bumpers either, but how many failures are due to the control arm strength? More likely it is the bushing, and/or driveline, both of which can at least be partially put through some hard paces in this "R" stunt. It looks like the upper is totally custom, but perhaps the lower is at least somewhat representative with OEM bushings. Regardless the geometry is there, and I am confident the Bronco IFS will check more boxes than TRD pro systems or anything else right now.
 

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Iā€™m clueless when it comes to desert racing. Will the Bronco R run Baja in full time 4x4, awd, or strictly 2wd?
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