Interior should be expected in off road vehicle

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

I’m starting to think Ford is in a BIG hurry to get the 21’s sold (not just ordered) because there is going to be fierce wave of competition coming directly on the Bronco’s heels. And they are working against so many obstacles (mainly supply chain bottlenecks). The good news for them is that they do have a huge backlog of orders. It wouldn’t surprise me if they are indeed cutting corners and keeping it simple just to get the damn things out the door. It’s also not gone unnoticed that there is almost no footage or talk whatsoever coming from anyone that’s driven one of these things anywhere outside of MOAB. Why is that?

With the current political climate, it seems quite possible that Ford could get caught behind the market if the market shifts towards hybrid and ev capable vehicles and that shift could happen fairly quickly. In July of 2020 they were probably competing with Jeep Wrangler. Now, they are competing with Jeep Wrangler 4xe and LR Defender (which already has a mild hybrid). In late 2021, they are going to be completing with a new wave of Jeep EV’s and hybrids, EV Hummers, Defender PHEV, Telsa’s cybertruck and a whole fleet of Toyota refreshes. If the costs of these vehicles get offset by rising gas prices and tax-incentives, the Bronco as it is today could take a dive in sales. So, if Ford can sell them as is, right now, they probably are hot to get it done as quickly and simply as possible. All the talk about cheap=rugged or utilitarian is just BS. Premium materials can be just as rugged and easy to clean if they are designed for that purpose.

Know I'm late in replying to this thread and your post, but your last sentence or so is very true. Premium can be rugged; think Filson or Orvis.

The EV Hummer is not a competitor to the Bronco, it costs double the highest Bronco Trim, that thing competes with the Merc G Wagon and Range Rover, maybe the Defender, but even a Defender in off road trim is over $70K.

The top off isn't an issue for leather in a convertible, they've figured out the treatment needed to protect the leather from full sun exposure.

Issue here is that a Ford Bronco is meant to be accessible to the common man; and it is. It's not luxury like many pickups which are no longer only driven by the common man who work with their hands. Most pickups end up in parking garages of skyscrapers downtown driven by some guy who works at the bank, which is why all the tech, leather everywhere, and lift gates that contort so these men don't hurt themselves when loading the end tables for the wife from Restoration Hardware.

The Broncos we're seeing are still pre-production trim, so there will be some differences, but expectations shouldn't be matching fit and finish of much more expensive off road trucks.

Pickup truck set ups aren't that complicated, as towing is much more of a target than off roading, even for that Power Wagon, Tremor, or whatever. the Raptor is a tad different, but it also doesn't tow as much as other F-150s either I assume with this being due to the softer more flexible suspension.

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[dgorsett]

My fear when the re introduction was announced was we would get an updated Everest. Luckily. Ford hit it out of the park with the new, retro Bronco. I'm totally satisfied.

From some posts in this thread it seems many would prefer an Everest type vehicle. There is a real market opportunity for Ford to expand the 'Bronco Brand.' An Everest chassis based Luxury , but capaable body on frame SUV would sell. Maybe we'll see a Lincoln Bronco in a few years.

 

[Scohin]

I'd been struggling with the Price Value too. I'm going from a Titanium Fusion to this, so I know I'm sacrificing a lot.
I'm still getting it because I'm too far in to pull out now lol.
Plus my parents just said they want to go on road trips and I've got floating plans with my Jeep friends so.

 

[Broncomputer]

I could buy any number of cars and trucks in the 45-60k range.

We just bought a Tesla Model Y.

Point is, I don’t want a Power Wagon that’s 4 feet longer. I want a Bronco. It looks cool, it’s capable and has more things than I need.

I’m currently driving a 10 year old rattle can Prius that wouldn’t know a soft plastic if you stuffed it in it’s face.

Plus I technically could buy a Bronco for 30k.

Sure the interior isn’t plush.

I don’t care.

It will be new, simple, and drainable. I’m buying this because I plan on using it. I don’t care if I get dents or dings or scratches or tears. And I think that was the impetus for Ford’s design team.

Or it could just be a cost cutting measure.

I don’t care.

 

[lvgambler]

No one should buy a vehicle sight unseen. Doesn't matter how many articles or videos you've devoured. It's good to find out, in person (like you have), if the exterior and/or interior are to your liking. If not, good on you. The marketers have whipped up a frenzy around this launch, there are way to many people in the ether. I suggest not only poking and prodding at dealer events but actually driving. You may love it, but you may not. I'm not plunking down 50k until I can.

 

[bdub2you]

Definitely a big part of it. The interior of the two broncos I saw made me inclined to drop down a model/trim. The 12" screen and seat material was the main appearance difference. If you go with a fully loaded Bronco then you are in it for $60k so the Bronco's utilitarian design even on higher trims surprised me after truck shopping in the last couple years at a similar price point and seeing how high end those interiors are now.

Again, bronco interior is not bad, it's just not as high end as top trims on truck interiors these days. And some of those trucks have very similar off road goodies, bigger engine, larger vehicle etc, so its harder for me to justify a similar price in a smaller vehicle that isn't as decked out inside.

I agree with the other posters that this would be an easy fix in a couple years to offer a premium trim to keep sales strong. Perhaps it was a deliberate strategy when they knew initial demand would be huge regardless. It's not like they don't know what a premium trim looks like, just mimic the F150s.

I mean this is the best possible way, but are you sure you actually are looking for a bronco? The high end luxury interiors you see in the upper range F150s wouldn't survive the use cases that the bronco was designed for. From your posts it seems like you're more interested in a luxury SUV that can occasionally go off road. It kind of sounds like a used Lexus LX or any Land Rover would be a better fit for what you're looking for. I know I cross shopped the Land Rover Defender and the base Defender is similarly priced and seems to be more what you're looking for.

 

[BackcountryBirds]

I mean this is the best possible way, but are you sure you actually are looking for a bronco? The high end luxury interiors you see in the upper range F150s wouldn't survive the use cases that the bronco was designed for. From your posts it seems like you're more interested in a luxury SUV that can occasionally go off road. It kind of sounds like a used Lexus LX or any Land Rover would be a better fit for what you're looking for. I know I cross shopped the Land Rover Defender and the base Defender is similarly priced and seems to be more what you're looking for.

No offense taken. What would be perfect for us is a full size bronco built on the raptor platform or ram equivalent built on the power wagon platform. Preferably with a V8 priced the same as a power wagon or raptor with similar features for price. We actually get way back in the backcountry alot so I am not trusting my return to the reliability british vehicle and it's air bags. Now a used land cruiser would be great too but good luck finding a clean one.

I got my PW for high 50s, which is a 3/4 ton, big V8 truck with lockers, sway bar disco, winch, cameras, 12 inch screen, premium interior (yes in an off-roader!), heated and cooled seats, etc for the same price of a loaded badlands with a smaller engine, smaller vehicle and worse interior (granted a but more tech with the drive modes and brake turn) so that's what's giving me pause.

I actually don't mind the bronco interior, just think it's average. It just makes me want to get a lower model with squatch, since higher end trims don't have a true high end package for the money they cost. I use the hell out of my front/surround cameras on my PW so thats the one issue with going low trim on a bronco.

If we were buying new today, we would be pretty much down to a lower trim bronco or 4 runner. The bronco would be a blast to drive but the size would be way tight for camping. Fortunately we have a year or two to see what Jeep, Toyota and Ram do in response and see what the warthog or updated bronco brings.

I feel like wranglers fetch a premium because they have a monopoly on the removable top off off-roaders. Bronco is the new kid on the block with a ton of hype so they also fetch a premium now. But don't kid yourself there is a huge markup on these things.

Trucks on the other hand are super competitive between Ford, Ram, Toyota and GM so you get more for you money, in my opinion.

My guess is in a couple years you are going to see prices either drop (more discounts offered most likely), or you are going to see much more loaded features like in pickup trucks, perhaps both.

 

[Hemisfear]

I keep reading folks say that the interior is "what we should expect in an off road vehicle". My question is what are you comparing that too?

I saw it in person and I am definitely not saying the interior is awful or anything. I describe it as average, adequate, utilitarian. But I do think they pinched a few pennies there to beef up profit margin assuming the roadshow vehicles end up being close to production quality.

My wife is next up for a new car so
I really want her to love the bronco and choose it, so not offering a true high end interior package impedes my ability to pitch it to the wife and by default no future off-road toy for me if I can't convince her!!

My Power Wagon was in the mid $50s and has decked out leather, 12 inch screen premium feeling materials, heated seats/steering wheel, cooled seats, etc. It's like a dang luxury car in there. That's on an HD pickup with all the off-road goodies, winch, sway bar disco, lockers, cameras, etc. It's incredible getting in the truck after a workout, cold morning, hunting trip, etc. Sometimes when I'm camping alone in the backcountry I just sit inside my truck and drink beer (not driving anywhere), relax listening to music or nature, watch the stars, etc because it's like a damn couch as far as comfort. Of course you can do all that in the bronco (especially with the top off!!!) but I just didn't feel the same level of comfort from what I saw.

Raptor and most modern trucks is a similar story these days, so I'm not just pumping up my truck or anything.

Yet a lux badlands is similarly priced, more in some cases yet pretty far behind on the interior from what I saw. This is on a much smaller vehicle, smaller engine, etc. Granted the bronco does have a little more new tech I suppose than the premium off-road trucks, but not by a ton.

I also get the removable top and rain argument, but it's not like it's truly waterproof anyways from what Ford has said. I just wish Ford would offer a premium interior similar to their trucks for those of us willing to pay for it and let me worry about keeping it out of the rain.

Anyone else feel this way? I think it's probably us newer truck owners that have been spoiled by recent upgrades to pickup interiors, but I got some selling ahead of me to convince the wife to buy a vehicle with a lesser interior than my muddy, pin-striped hunting truck.

Nope

 

[MVP]

I can’t get mine fast enough. A lot of you complainers are going to end up ruining it. In three years it’s gonna be a 4 door only, automatic only, street tires for comfort, extra grocery bag hooks in the rear, pre installed child seats, soft launching, Starbucks getting travesty.

I have been saying this since everyone started complaining. You are getting the wrong vehicle. If you are cross shopping with Audi, Mazda and Tesla this isn’t the one for you. Gas mileage is going to be terrible. Amenities are going to be terrible. The interior is going to be terrible... for you.

have any of you ever sat in a side by side? This is a big boy side by side. The grab handles even looked like they were pulled right out of one. This isn’t an SUV for your errands.

For me it was between this Bronco or a Can Am X3 RS. Guess what? The SxS is all plastic wash down interior. Here compare for yourself

 

[_finack]

Everyone is saying people are looking for a Lexus or Mercedes interior. I think this is wrong. There is a balance that could have been struck between absurdly cheap looking and luxurious.

I've driven nothing but Fords my whole life (save for my current MKZ), and this was the first interior I've ever sat in where I was like, "Wow. This is not good." The only worse interiors I've seen were on an old Saturn Ion and a Chrysler 200.

 

[BenB007]

Issue here is that a Ford Bronco is meant to be accessible to the common man; and it is. It's not luxury like many pickups which are no longer only driven by the common man who work with their hands. Most pickups end up in parking garages of skyscrapers downtown driven by some guy who works at the bank, which is why all the tech, leather everywhere, and lift gates that contort so these men don't hurt themselves when loading the end tables for the wife from Restoration Hardware.

The Broncos we're seeing are still pre-production trim, so there will be some differences, but expectations shouldn't be matching fit and finish of much more expensive off road trucks.

Pickup truck set ups aren't that complicated, as towing is much more of a target than off roading, even for that Power Wagon, Tremor, or whatever. the Raptor is a tad different, but it also doesn't tow as much as other F-150s either I assume with this being due to the softer more flexible suspension.

All good points. I want to expand on the idea of pickup trucks for the white collar folk. In my understanding, the luxury off-road capable vehicle in general was originally made popular by realtors and land developers, who wanted to provide potential clients and investors with a luxury experience while also providing access to austere environments that had little or no paved roads. Hence the explosion of Range Rover during the early 2000's when the housing and commercial real estate markets where being saturated. The Luxury pickup today is, in my mind, most popular among successful developers and contractors who spend all day in their trucks but can justify the expense for that level of comfort.

However, there are also plenty of white collar urbanites and suburbanites who work in the office 5 days a week and spend the weekend off-roading, camping with the kids, hunting, mountain biking, driving on the beach, etc. I think this is the market that is cross shopping Bronco with Defenders, EV Hummers, and lux trucks. In fact this is me. I don't think anyone is expecting lux out of Bronco, it's more about the give and take that comes with going in different directions. Personally, I think a Bronco exterior (including removable roof and doors) with a Defender interior and PHEV would be the ultimate vehicle and easily worth 80K-90K.

My real question is whether Ford could even make a car like that? When I talk about Defender interior, I'm not just talking about bells and whistles, I know Ford can do that. I mean solidly built interior that can last 10+ years without falling apart. I'm talking Yeti vs Igloo.

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

All good points. I want to expand on the idea of pickup trucks for the white collar folk. In my understanding, the luxury off-road capable vehicle in general was originally made popular by realtors and land developers, who wanted to provide potential clients and investors with a luxury experience while also providing access to austere environments that had little or no paved roads. Hence the explosion of Range Rover during the early 2000's when the housing and commercial real estate markets where being saturated. The Luxury pickup today is, in my mind, most popular among successful developers and contractors who spend all day in their trucks but can justify the expense for that level of comfort.

However, there are also plenty of white collar urbanites and suburbanites who work in the office 5 days a week and spend the weekend off-roading, camping with the kids, hunting, mountain biking, driving on the beach, etc. I think this is the market that is cross shopping Bronco with Defenders, EV Hummers, and lux trucks. In fact this is me. I don't think anyone is expecting lux out of Bronco, it's more about the give and take that comes with going in different directions. Personally, I think a Bronco exterior (including removable roof and doors) with a Defender interior and PHEV would be the ultimate vehicle and easily worth 80K-90K.

My real question is whether Ford could even make a car like that? When I talk about Defender interior, I'm not just talking about bells and whistles, I know Ford can do that. I mean solidly built interior that can last 10+ years without falling apart. I'm talking Yeti vs Igloo.

I hear you, trust that I do. I'm an Economist and likely set up the high level terms for your 401K. I understand the potential motivations very well and do many of the weekend warrior things you've described.

However, staying with your analogy, Ford is not Yeti, Ford is more like Coleman. There is nothing luxurious about a Ford; any Ford. Nothing wrong with this, because luxury has never been the charge or aim of Ford. Ford is for the working man; always has been and this is in no way an insult to Ford.

Range Rover is for the rich. Never a thing for developers or real estate; not sure where you've gathered these anticdotes, sure they may fit some people, but Range Rover was designed for wealthy Brits who enjoy going on Safari on the continents of Africa, Australia, and in Asia (India). Americans tend to take more comfortable vacations, but the Brits enjoy a challenge.

Land Rover is more utilitarian, thus the Iconic Defender and Landy II before it, but the new one is in no way common; and I think this is a shame.

Don't know where this war on being normal came from, but it is clearly on the march and has everyone feeling as if the only way to live is to be rich; it's shameful.

I don't know if the Bronco is a ton of cheap plastic, but I doubt it although I have yet to see one up close. But, I also don't expect New Defender level of fit and finish in a Ford Bronco. If that's what's needed, the Defender is an available option to buy.

Simple is ok and it doesn't translate to poor or poor quality. Yes, I've grown accustomed to high quality interiors, but at the same time, I don't expect, nor do I think it matters in this vehicle. Shouldn't matter in a pickup either. By their nature, a pickup is for work; it's a mule, not a race horse, or show pony; a mule. Putting lipstick all over it doesn't change what it is, only makes it more expensive.

Although my Bronco build is in the nose bleed expensive territory, I am very glad to see that the Bronco can also be well equipped for the normal guy at around $40K, which still isn't cheap for someone with a normal job, but at least puts it in reach and not forcing the spending of $55K.

There are some parts of Alabama where a family can still get a good home with a yard for $150K, the Bronco can be driven by folks like this; this is what Ford is.

 

[BenB007]

Range Rover is for the rich. Never a thing for developers or real estate; not sure where you've gathered these anticdotes, sure they may fit some people, but Range Rover was designed for wealthy Brits who enjoy going on Safari on the continents of Africa, Australia, and in Asia (India). Americans tend to take more comfortable vacations, but the Brits enjoy a challenge.

Land Rover is more utilitarian, thus the Iconic Defender and Landy II before it, but the new one is in no way common; and I think this is a shame.

Perhaps I misspoke. You are absolutely correct in origins of the Range Rover. I was speaking to my experiences coming out of college in the South during the 90’s. The Range Rover at that time was kind of unique and very few were on the road where I lived (Charleston, SC). I pined to own one but the price tag was way out of my reach and they were really hard to get. That was then. Now they are doing over 80K sales annually in the US. There was definitely an explosion of sales in the US. Range Rover went from just under 5K sales in 1993 to almost 50K in 2007. I did know several land developers and realtors during this time and they always said that they specifically bought the Range Rover for that use case. And, yes, many of them could be classified as stealth wealth. My neighbor, also a land developer, owns two Range Rovers and a Defender. So, in my mind, Range Rover has been synonymous in my area with real estate development as almost every person I know involved in that segment has one. Granted it’s a lucrative business. The Defender has always been out of my price range as well until recently. It may have been a common man ride but not in the US.

As far as the truck is concerned, I think there is an ample case to be made for both lux trucks and work trucks just as there is probably a case for a lux Bronco and a utilitarian Bronco.

Like you, I have no idea how good or how bad the interior is as I’ve got another week before I even get to sit in one. I’m not that hard to impress. So it would have to be pretty bad to make me walk. It has pretty much every interior feature I really care about but it would be nice to think it would feel solidly put together. Things like grab handles that wobble, play in the gear shift, rattles in the dash, rattle anywhere, if it’s already showing scratches and they really look bad, play in the center console armrest, vibrating rear view mirror, buttons that are losing their paint or look like they are already worn, switches that feel lose. Those are the types of things that would bother me, especially if it’s supposed to stand up for 10+ years of “off-road” abuse. I have none of these problems in my 2013 Tundra that takes a beating but my GMC Suburban and Tahoe had a lot of these type of issues, which left me skeptical of the big three ever since. That being said, I’ve never driven a Ford or a Wrangler and thought to myself that the interior felt cheap. I guess we’ll just have to see when we get the chance. But, if I where to walk, it would most likely be because something new tipped the scale it’s favor while I was waiting for my MY22 or the real world user reviews put it in a negative light.

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

Perhaps I misspoke. You are absolutely correct in origins of the Range Rover. I was speaking to my experiences coming out of college in the South during the 90’s. The Range Rover at that time was kind of unique and very few were on the road where I lived (Charleston, SC). I pined to own one but the price tag was way out of my reach and they were really hard to get. That was then. Now they are doing over 80K sales annually in the US. There was definitely an explosion of sales in the US. Range Rover went from just under 5K sales in 1993 to almost 50K in 2007. I did know several land developers and realtors during this time and they always said that they specifically bought the Range Rover for that use case. And, yes, many of them could be classified as stealth wealth. My neighbor, also a land developer, owns two Range Rovers and a Defender. So, in my mind, Range Rover has been synonymous in my area with real estate development as almost every person I know involved in that segment has one. Granted it’s a lucrative business. The Defender has always been out of my price range as well until recently. It may have been a common man ride but not in the US.

As far as the truck is concerned, I think there is an ample case to be made for both lux trucks and work trucks just as there is probably a case for a lux Bronco and a utilitarian Bronco.

Like you, I have no idea how good or how bad the interior is as I’ve got another week before I even get to sit in one. I’m not that hard to impress. So it would have to be pretty bad to make me walk. It has pretty much every interior feature I really care about but it would be nice to think it would feel solidly put together. Things like grab handles that wobble, play in the gear shift, rattles in the dash, rattle anywhere, if it’s already showing scratches and they really look bad, play in the center console armrest, vibrating rear view mirror, buttons that are losing their paint or look like they are already worn, switches that feel lose. Those are the types of things that would bother me, especially if it’s supposed to stand up for 10+ years of “off-road” abuse. I have none of these problems in my 2013 Tundra that takes a beating but my GMC Suburban and Tahoe had a lot of these type of issues, which left me skeptical of the big three ever since. That being said, I’ve never driven a Ford or a Wrangler and thought to myself that the interior felt cheap. I guess we’ll just have to see when we get the chance. But, if I where to walk, it would most likely be because something new tipped the scale it’s favor while I was waiting for my MY22 or the real world user reviews put it in a negative light.

What you say here is clearer and makes sense. I still want to caution you from comparing a Land Rover, Range Rover product, which have been at the high end of luxury for decades, to what is expected out of a Ford.

Of the big 3, I've respected Ford the most although never owned one.

Thin dash plastic is likely the only real concern, but I think Ford has learned it's lesson with the lowest level of fit and finish. I think there may have been a few redesigns when they noticed higher income buyers like myself reserving the Bronco. No brag here, just stating the obvious from a guy who's owned a number of luxury cars. Some people I know say that I'm downgrading, but they're getting the finger. I have nothing to prove and just want to enjoy the Bronco. I'll daily drive it since going to the office is an occasional task now.

I hope when you "meet" the Bronco that it holds up to some of your expectations, but living where you do, you're only a little ways drive some some of my best wheeling in the Ashville/Highlands area.

Hope to see you out on a trail or two in your backyard in the coming months.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

Well, I finally got to sit in a Bronco. I’ll caveat this with the usual statement about it being a pre production model but I’m gonna have to agree with those that say this is a subpar interior. The plastics and other surfaces are definitely a lower level than the Wrangler and much lower than my Raptor.

I will say this too, I was at Mile High Stadium in Denver. The weather was bad so they moved this indoors where the lighting was piss poor. I had to use my cell phone light to see things a bit better. So I’m reserving judgement until I get a better look at it in good lighting but Ford CAN do MUCH MUCH better than this. I get it that it should be utilitarian (I own a Jeep for chrisakes) but there is utilitarian and there is cheap. Also, the nautical vinyl in the Black Diamond was kinda tacky IMO. I’ve seen vinyl in boats that looks much better than this. It’s not that big of a deal though, since I would just go with cloth anyways. However, the seats were very comfortable.

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