Is this partly why the Manual is not available for the 2.7L Engine?

indio22

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Torque and price. There's your short answer. It would be drastically more expensive (engineering and materials) to produce a transmission to handle the higher torque output yet have that numb modern feel of an auto.

To make a modern transmission as smooth and unobtrusive as they can, and avoid high wear components such as clutches that slip all day but don't burn out, the price goes up. If the clutch has ANY notchiness or rough engagement then people complain via keyboard and shit-can the "feel".

It's not as if they're going to go back and put a fluid-filled torque converter in there the way god intended in the 1960's.

Frankly, i'd pay an upcharge to have a proper manual on the 2.7, but i'm also happy to get a manual on the 2.3 without charge. That motor is stout and solid. Have driven about 3k miles with a 2019 Ranger and the only let-down on that truck is the 10-speed auto. But i'm not delusional to assume the manual paired with the 2.3 is going to be as smooth and sweet as the gearbox on a Honda S2000. Just hoping it's a bit more forgiving than the stage 3 transmission and clutch from the Evo 9 that I daily drove for a few years.
+1. The T18/19, SM420/465, NP435 manual truck transmissions of yesterday were strong and capable of handling big power and with low crawler gears. But they would mostly be no-go today, given customer expectations of low noise and silky smooth car-like shifting. Hoping the new Bronco manual/2.3L pairing is a good match.





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Lcubed

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A lot has to do with demand. I purchased the newer body style Xterra the first year it came out in 2005 with a stick. Loved it. I live in NY but I had to go out to MA to purchase it because no NY dealer was willing to order one. I asked and they all said the same thing "no demand for a MT truck".

actually the demand is there, but the american model of selling cars is different from other countries where stick shift is more prevalent.

in america, ordering a vehicle to spec is rare and folks/dealers want to make a deal on what's in stock.

other countries (japan and germany come to mind), it's customary to order the vehicle to your spec and wait for it to be built. (and the driver's ed test is done with a stick shift)

in this scenario, dealers want to sell something that any fool can drive out of their on-hand stock, and with the lack of driver's ed here in the states, most people can't drive a stick. so, the dealer will only stock automatics ....
 

Rick Astley

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Good info, do you suppose running in Sport mode would iron out some of these problems?
I haven't driven the Ranger with their new factory tune options. However, having built and tuned turbocharged cars, i'm sure a lot can be done on the engine side.
However, I have zero experience with tuning transmission shift points or behavior. As modern auto's pretty much have their own ECU (an assessment that they require capacity from an ecu to control, not that they literally have their own dedicated ecu) I would venture a guess that transmission tuning is more important in this capacity than engine tuning.

With the Evo's their active center differential literally had their own ECU and could be tuned for slip and engagement, but that's nothing compared to what these modern drive settings and electronic differentials are capable of.
 

Straight 6

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The demand isn't there, dealers bring in manuals and they rot on the lot. The last few cars I've bought I special ordered because I wanted a manual. If enough people did that, the dealers would start to stock manual cars again.

A long time ago I used to hate auto because it was always in the wrong gear. Now when I drive my manual in frequently in the wrong gear because I am lazy. I drove a friend's mini Cooper with auto trans and it was very enlightening, it shifted exactly how I would have shifted myself if I wasn't lazy. Damn thing was telepathic

There's still plenty of bad automatics out there though, but that mini cooper S.... Great transmission
 

Goocci gang

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Should we expect turbo lag in these engines... I drive na vehicles for the most part
 

Imissmy1996bronco

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Should we expect turbo lag in these engines... I drive na vehicles for the most part
In my experience with the first gen 2.7, there is some, but it is only noticeable from a dead stop, as long as you have been above idle for a fraction of a second it is gone. It's not really noticeable unless you are trying to launch it like a drag race.
 

guzie

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Should we expect turbo lag in these engines... I drive na vehicles for the most part
Not with twin turbos and an automatic. The auto will allow the motor to pick up RPM and get into the turbo before really allowing movement. This should be pretty quick and not noticeable. The 10 speed will also allow for faster shifts and maintaining boost.
 

Dick_Castlesmurff

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Torque and price. There's your short answer. It would be drastically more expensive (engineering and materials) to produce a transmission to handle the higher torque output yet have that numb modern feel of an auto.

To make a modern transmission as smooth and unobtrusive as they can, and avoid high wear components such as clutches that slip all day but don't burn out, the price goes up. If the clutch has ANY notchiness or rough engagement then people complain via keyboard and shit-can the "feel".

It's not as if they're going to go back and put a fluid-filled torque converter in there the way god intended in the 1960's.

Frankly, i'd pay an upcharge to have a proper manual on the 2.7, but i'm also happy to get a manual on the 2.3 without charge. That motor is stout and solid. Have driven about 3k miles with a 2019 Ranger and the only let-down on that truck is the 10-speed auto. But i'm not delusional to assume the manual paired with the 2.3 is going to be as smooth and sweet as the gearbox on a Honda S2000. Just hoping it's a bit more forgiving than the stage 3 transmission and clutch from the Evo 9 that I daily drove for a few years.
Then the answer might be not to use the 2.7 as the upgrade. Go with the 3.5... Something that is actually different than the 2.3.

The 2.3 and 2.7 are very close together across the board.

Neither is the "wrong" engine for the Bronco, but together as the only two options one can't really build a pro/cons list between the two. (Manual is the pro for the 2.3 - everything else is an edge, thought slight, to the 2.7 including value/economy.

3.3 non-turbo as the base (with manual) and 2.7 as the upgrade? That makes so much more sense to me.
 

Dick_Castlesmurff

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Wouldn’t this be the same issue in any engine with port injection? (eg. the 5.0 Mustang)? It seems like a better explanation is Ford doesn’t think it would be profitable enough to go through the engineering effort.

Personally I would rather take the 2.3L manual and save some money. People here are underestimating what the engine is capable of, and the Bronco is just not about straight line speed to the point where horsepower will actually matter between the two engines.
Are you saving money with the 2.3 over the 2.7? The upgrade is only going to be 2-3% of the purchase price....
 

max6spd

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actually the demand is there, but the american model of selling cars is different from other countries where stick shift is more prevalent.

in america, ordering a vehicle to spec is rare and folks/dealers want to make a deal on what's in stock.

other countries (japan and germany come to mind), it's customary to order the vehicle to your spec and wait for it to be built. (and the driver's ed test is done with a stick shift)

in this scenario, dealers want to sell something that any fool can drive out of their on-hand stock, and with the lack of driver's ed here in the states, most people can't drive a stick. so, the dealer will only stock automatics ....
I disagree. The demand is not there in heavily populated cities like NYC, Boston, or LA. The reason is the amount of traffic and nobody wants to deal with that shifting to crawl 5mph. In more wide open areas, yes, I agree, MT cars would be preferred. Not to mention the art of driving a stick is fading as even sports cars only have paddle shifters now and no longer have anything to row. So there are less people in the country knowing how to drive a stick. Europe and Asia are different. Manual trannies are more prevalent. But, in the US, not so much.
 

Rick Astley

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If you feel China has any environmental protection standards worthy of mention then you may include them in your analysis.
 

HeritageRider

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A lot has to do with demand. I purchased the newer body style Xterra the first year it came out in 2005 with a stick. Loved it. I live in NY but I had to go out to MA to purchase it because no NY dealer was willing to order one. I asked and they all said the same thing "no demand for a MT truck".
I know the feeling. 6 years ago I wanted a new Focus in blue, with a stick. I had to go from Western PA to the suburbs of Washington DC (3+ hour ride) to get one. Worked out okay, though, as it had an upgrade package with leather, 17" alloys, fog lights, etc. But that's still a long way to go to get the car you want. I'll bet in hindsight, Ford wishes they would have sold ALL the Focus's (Focii?) with manuals, after the multi-billion $$$ debacle with the DCT autos!
 

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