Is this partly why the Manual is not available for the 2.7L Engine?

HeritageRider

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Personally I would rather take the 2.3L manual and save some money. People here are underestimating what the engine is capable of, and the Bronco is just not about straight line speed to the point where horsepower will actually matter between the two engines.
You right about the straight line speed, and there is not a lot of difference in HP between the two. But that extra 100 ft/lbs of torque sure would come in handy off-road!





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I know the feeling. 6 years ago I wanted a new Focus in blue, with a stick. I had to go from Western PA to the suburbs of Washington DC (3+ hour ride) to get one. Worked out okay, though, as it had an upgrade package with leather, 17" alloys, fog lights, etc. But that's still a long way to go to get the car you want. I'll bet in hindsight, Ford wishes they would have sold ALL the Focus's (Focii?) with manuals, after the multi-billion $$$ debacle with the DCT autos!
This right here. 6 years ago back I lived with a roommate she had a 14 Focus Auto and I had the same model year manual ST.
I never had a single mechanical issue with my ST and her Dual Clutch powershift transmission caused her all sorts of problems. That thing was in the shop for WEEKS at a time on more than three occasions and even when they said it was “fixed” it drove like absolute garbage. At times you could claim it was downright dangerous to drive because of the way it started from a stop and shifted.

You can’t understate how much of a screw up that transmission was for Ford. During the time we were both 22 years old. A vehicle like the Focus is a perfect first car for anyone. Now she and many people like her will never buy Ford again because of that experience and I can’t say that I blame them. Ford has lost many customers for life because they put an absolute garbage transmission in an entry level car.
 

Big Boss

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I know the feeling. 6 years ago I wanted a new Focus in blue, with a stick. I had to go from Western PA to the suburbs of Washington DC (3+ hour ride) to get one. Worked out okay, though, as it had an upgrade package with leather, 17" alloys, fog lights, etc. But that's still a long way to go to get the car you want. I'll bet in hindsight, Ford wishes they would have sold ALL the Focus's (Focii?) with manuals, after the multi-billion $$$ debacle with the DCT autos!
Yep I had one of those Focuses..... what a disaster
 

Zinn

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Are you saving money with the 2.3 over the 2.7? The upgrade is only going to be 2-3% of the purchase price....
I want a manual transmission. I can tune the 2.3 and make up most of the torque against the (stock) 2.7
 

frinesi2

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I just finished watching the video below. The video explains how an electronic throttle-body leads to rev hang with a manual transmission. In short, to prevent additional emissions of either CO and HydroCarbons (Rich fuel/air mixture) or NOx (Lean fuel/air mixture), the closing of the throttle-body is delayed to allow excess fuel coating the header to be burnt efficiently and opening of the throttle-body is delayed to allow fuel to be mixed properly.

Since the 2.3L as direct injection, there is no fuel coating the intake reducing the time needed to clear the excess fuel when the throttle-body closes shorting the rev hang.

In short, are emissions are a part of the reason preventing the manual transmission being used with the 2.7L Port and direct injection?


Now I drove a Scion FR-S with a 6 speed MT and the Toyota DS-4 Fuel system with direct and port injection and I don't recall any issues with rev-hang on that car.
I know we're 4 pages in to this thread and honestly I haven't ready any of the responses yet, but, as a (somewhat) insider in to the automotive DOT and EPA compliance industry ...

EVERY.
THING.
IS.
FOR.
EMISSIONS.

and crash safety.

So yes, that could be a large part of it.
 

4D-Beach

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This thread is interesting, informative...
and scary

Might keep Warren Buffetting the old Pathy...

and thanks for the starfish
 

Straight 6

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Yup and nothing in the USA ever happened that would be horrific today... Nothing to see here, move along.......
Glass houses yo
 
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Doesn’t FORD (and most other OEMS) sell lots of manuals into EU where emissions Regs are as Strict or stricter than USA? ,

just a guess on my part however my guess is the manual isn’t offered on 2.7 due to either HP limitations (Of transmission) or to manage complexity in factory.
 

Wanted33

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The reasons are multi-fasceted:

  • Auto-stop/start is a PITA (we used Forscan to disable this, which cost $200)
  • take-off from a stop is notchy
  • take-off from a stop while on a incline can randomly have a stomach-lurching roll-back
  • mostly incapable of compression braking as it will simply hold 9th gear as you slow down, pushing 100% of braking force to the brakes (this can have some long-term issues when hauling a load, or maxed out and you start getting brake fade)
  • Why am I rolling at 25 mph in 9th gear?
  • If you change the dash display to show the gear you can watch it "hunt" for ways to make you dislike the torque curve of the vehicle (rolling starts in 5th, having to downshift 4 gears to give acceleration, merging on the freeway in 7th)
  • It's singleminded goal in life is to maximize fuel economy in all situations..... In a vehicle that is essentially exempt from tailpipe emissions and puts out about 3x more pollutants than any car in a developed nation, that 1 mpg improvement while polluting 300% more seems a misguided intention.
  • Watch it's gear selection while towing (manually setting the truck to tow mode and trailer sway control) and it's a bit better, but you would be better served with a manual and paying attention to what the F you're doing.
  • This is a transmission which performs better (assuming your only goal with a truck isn't fuel economy... Because if your only goal was fuel economy.... YOU BOUGHT A F-ING TRUCK FOR FUEL ECONOMY???) in manual mode but having 10 gears so close together is semi-truck territory and unnecessary in a production vehicle.

    Ultimately it's a perfectly adequate automatic for what 90% of people buy automatics for. To push a pedal and have magic happen so they don't have to pay attention to anything or understand gearing/load/speed/situation.
Rick, it's like you're living in my mind. My wife drives an '18 Mustang GT with the 10 spd. At first it sucked, and went down hill from there. I had to have it reflashed (if you haven't already you may want to try that), and that did improve the performance greatly. It doesn't lug the engine anymore, and that's the best part. But, in my mind it's too many damn gears, and the mpg's aren't that much better than her '13 GT with the 6 speed A/T. In my mind more gears just doesn't seem to be right direction to go.

BTW, I have a friend that bought a new Ranger. He hates the 10 spd also, and describes his the same way as you.
 

Hkak45

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Waiting for any modern Subaru with a manual to drop revs between 1st and 2nd-
8F8E8F11-F3A4-4035-A9E0-F6D478BC8FA5.jpeg
I had a 2015 WRX and it was HORRIBLE!! I had to custom tune because I couldn’t stand the rev hang in them. After custom tune it ran perfect though.
 

TNcoupe

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Yep I had one of those Focuses..... what a disaster
I had a 2012 that was one of the first ones built with the DCT cause I bought it in April 2011. I beat on that car like it owed me money for 120k miles and the transmission never once skipped a beat, shuttered, or slipped. Sold it to my buddy for $3000. He washed the engine and got water down in the clutch shift actuators and it hung in 1,3,5 gears. Ford "fixed" it now it revs to the moon before it takes off. I told him do not let Ford reflash the TCM because that transmission shifted perfectly.
 

Big Boss

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I had a 2012 that was one of the first ones built with the DCT cause I bought it in April 2011. I beat on that car like it owed me money for 120k miles and the transmission never once skipped a beat, shuttered, or slipped. Sold it to my buddy for $3000. He washed the engine and got water down in the clutch shift actuators and it hung in 1,3,5 gears. Ford "fixed" it now it revs to the moon before it takes off. I told him do not let Ford reflash the TCM because that transmission shifted perfectly.
You got lucky lol. I also had a early build, bought mine October 2011, it drove fine but occasionally it sounded like it was grinding gears and Ford reflashed it and after that it was ok for a bit then same problem. Then after that is was a series of flushes, new clutch placks, new shift actuators, more new clutch packs, reflashes, more clutch packs, reflashes and finally they seemed to get it dialed in around 75k. Then the EPAS died on me at 97k and said see ya to that car.
 

Rick Astley

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Rick, it's like you're living in my mind. My wife drives an '18 Mustang GT with the 10 spd. At first it sucked, and went down hill from there. I had to have it reflashed (if you haven't already you may want to try that), and that did improve the performance greatly. It doesn't lug the engine anymore, and that's the best part. But, in my mind it's too many damn gears, and the mpg's aren't that much better than her '13 GT with the 6 speed A/T. In my mind more gears just doesn't seem to be right direction to go.

BTW, I have a friend that bought a new Ranger. He hates the 10 spd also, and describes his the same way as you.
Well, let it be known that I would never give you up or let you down.

That being said, the girlfriend who drives that Ranger daily loves it and has zero complaints about the transmission. She thinks it's super smooth and has a lot of power. Although she fails to notice that she drives at 55 mph just because you must apply firmer throttle to get to 60 mph in 10th gear. It kicks the water pump into high and the fan makes a bit of noise, so subconsciously it keeps her at a nice cozy 55 mph all.day.long on the freeway.... (When I remind her that if she wants to use any lane other than the slow lane, she's going to have to accelerate and drive with traffic or drop me off at the nearest pub with a pool table where i'll be until she's on the way back).

The gearing in my friends '16 Mustang GT seems to be a bit better than the Ranger. I'm confident they are re-jiggering these things for the application.

But "self learning" is NOT something the Ranger transmission has shown an ability to do that is discernible from this drivers perspective.

Anyway, back on topic: The 2.3T with manual is going to be an absolute hoot to drive and aside from that one time you made a circle of your best buddies where you all figure out who's pen is longer. The 2.3 is more than adequate for 95% of Bronco owners. But this is America, so 95% of sales will be with the 2.7 where you can shout how much horsepower you have while also having a vehicle that 15 year old girls can operate easily with that automatic..... Which is NOT the time to mention who had the longest pen out of your drinking buddies.......
 

rapidredbronco2021

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I just finished watching the video below. The video explains how an electronic throttle-body leads to rev hang with a manual transmission. In short, to prevent additional emissions of either CO and HydroCarbons (Rich fuel/air mixture) or NOx (Lean fuel/air mixture), the closing of the throttle-body is delayed to allow excess fuel coating the header to be burnt efficiently and opening of the throttle-body is delayed to allow fuel to be mixed properly.

Since the 2.3L as direct injection, there is no fuel coating the intake reducing the time needed to clear the excess fuel when the throttle-body closes shorting the rev hang.

In short, are emissions are a part of the reason preventing the manual transmission being used with the 2.7L Port and direct injection?


Now I drove a Scion FR-S with a 6 speed MT and the Toyota DS-4 Fuel system with direct and port injection and I don't recall any issues with rev-hang on that car.
I bet it would have something to do with emissions. Or could be the case that Ford didn't think there would be enough of a take rate for the manual regardless of which engine its paired to. Or is gonna wait for later model years to add the manual to the 2.7 V6.
 

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