Jeep and Chevrolet's Reaction to New Ford Bronco

[OX1]

It would weigh 200+ lbs, and that's not convenient or subtle like a 30lb jug the size of a briefcase. It would probably cost $2k too, so it's not like you'd want to leave it anywhere exposed like a $5 plastic jug or even a $50 Jerry can.

Probably right, would be crazy heavy. Yet another downside of electrics then.
I tow back and forth to PA for single day 4 wheeling trips. Right now I can make it round
trip without stopping for fuel. Worse case, I bring 5 gallons of diesel and can put that in
at offroad park parking lot. I still don't have to stop anywhere else, which is somewhat of a PIA,
even with fast fill diesels, as you still have to get off highway (and you get killed on price on major highways).

So not some pie in the ski theoretical, that's less than 36 gallons (I don't drain it zero of course) over 336 miles
with a CGVW of 18,100........ (and again, in any temp).........

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[Fosters]

Watch TFLs videos on towing with the model X or taking it offroad on a very mild trail... With a trailer you end up charging as much as you end up driving.

They'd be better off trying to make the technology cheaper so they can replace the prius/fiesta/dart/civic/corolla/smart car type stuff... the stuff that people use as a commuter. That's the whole idea with the fuel savings anyway. Instead they're trying to market them (EVs in general) to people with money... if you can afford a 60-130k tesla, you can afford the gas a comparable vehicle would eat...

 

[Carolina Jim]

make the technology cheaper so they can replace the prius/fiesta/dart/civic/corolla/smart car type stuff... the stuff that people use as a commuter

there's a lot of buzz about that scenario being the future...personal ownership of multiple TYPES of vehicles...each with a distinct purpose

 

[BroncoMike]

Everyone fails when they try to apply an EV solution to every driving scenario. Towing across country, even GOING across country is bordering on stupidity at this point - wrong tool for the job. There are literally dozens of far better choices.

Applied where it makes sense - relatively short distance commuting with charging at both ends, community EV (grocery getter), or high-capacity with supercharging, and it can work right now in limited markets. The rest of it won't make sense until both storage increases and recharging is in place more densely.

 

[OX1]

Everyone fails when they try to apply an EV solution to every driving scenario. Towing across country, even GOING across country is bordering on stupidity at this point - wrong tool for the job. There are literally dozens of far better choices.

So now it's me that failed, poking 100 holes in EV usage, not the vehicle?? Funny!

And you figured out how to beam over those of us with motorhomes and/or trailers that want to take
something across country. Or maybe I just want to go see America. Or maybe I don't want some POS
rental when I get where I am going. Or maybe I like to bring a LOT of stuff.

 

[Nickp]

So now it's me that failed, poking 100 holes in EV usage, not the vehicle?? Funny!

And you figured out how to beam over those of us with motorhomes and/or trailers that want to take
something across country. Or maybe I just want to go see America. Or maybe I don't want some POS
rental when I get where I am going. Or maybe I like to bring a LOT of stuff.

Keep your gas rig. The way I see it, the more electric vehicles other people drive the more gasoline that leaves for me

 

[Stampede.Offroad]

there's a lot of buzz about that scenario being the future...personal ownership of multiple TYPES of vehicles...each with a distinct purpose

That in and of itself misses the point of the EV though, doesn't it? If you have to own several vehicles, one of which is efficient, isn't the goal of reduced resource consumption ignored/defeated?

 

[Carolina Jim]

That in and of itself misses the point of the EV though

Probably can't apply tomorrow's tools to today's lifestyle. I think you have to look at it through the lens of all the mega-trends futurists believe to be shaping tomorrow's world. Probably chief among them is intensified urbanization. Another is the belief that individual mobility will, at some point, be viewed as more of a luxury than necessity. So while we (I'm in a small 2-traffic-light mountain town) take for granted the need to own a vehicle that enables us to wander 300-400 miles wherever we want, that might be less common in the future.

 

[BroncoMike]

So now it's me that failed, poking 100 holes in EV usage, not the vehicle?? Funny!

And you figured out how to beam over those of us with motorhomes and/or trailers that want to take
something across country. Or maybe I just want to go see America. Or maybe I don't want some POS
rental when I get where I am going. Or maybe I like to bring a LOT of stuff.

Um, no. None of that, actually. I think my statement poked more holes in EV acceptance than anything you've written. It actually concurred with your theory, while pointing out that the TFL stunt was such an obvious misapplication as to be imbecilic. Or maybe just to me; I guess there may have been a handful of potential Tesla owners who thought a battery-operated car would be a great choice for towing cross-country on a tight schedule... those TFL guys sure did a great public service warning the world to the contrary.

What I was saying is, a BEV is clearly not a solution for everyone, and unless there is a drastic improvement in battery or recharging technology, it may never reach a high level of acceptance. At this point in development, BEVs have some limited application that rises to the level of ICE functionality in the way a percentage of the population (mostly urban commuters) have come to use vehicles. Could some adapt an EV, changing their lifestyle and the way they drive? Sure, but that will take more commitment than most will muster, especially when ICE vehicles are cheaper and dino-fuel remains inexpensive and easily available.

So now it's me that failed, poking 100 holes in EV usage, not the vehicle??

The vehicle just is. It is neither a problem nor a solution until it is applied to a task. It's like a tool laying on a shelf. It works for some jobs, not others. If we were debating daily commuting 22 traffic-packed miles to an NYC office job with a narrow, low-overhang parking garage involved, I would be questioning the choice of a Huracan or an F350 quad-cab dually on 44's - but not criticizing the attributes of the vehicle itself other than their relation to the task, as they are useful in other applications. The user determines the tool. Some are more useful for a variety of tasks, others are more specialized. Do you open a drawer in your tool cabinet and verbally belittle and berate your Vice-Grips because they can mar the finish of pristine fasteners? Of course not, you chose the correct tool for the job, recognizing that each one has its applications. You reach for the Vice-Grips when confronted with and ugly, corroded, stripped fastener or some other task that they are best suited for.

...maybe I just want to go see America. Or maybe I don't want some POS
rental when I get where I am going. Or maybe I like to bring a LOT of stuff.

I explore the US myself fairly frequently, sometimes taking 3-week trips with nothing more than a general direction in mind. I avoid flying/renting, and I do like to take all my stuff. Dependent on where I'm going and what I'm doing, I'll take a motorcycle or drive my DIESEL EXCURSION. I'm not at all trying to stuff anyone in a box, rather the opposite: I clearly stated that EVs don't work well for missions outside of their design scope. You seem to have the impression that I want to shove EVs down everybody's throat, but I'm not sure where that comes from. I clearly stated they didn't work in some, and arguably most circumstances. I get it that it's useful to debate the shortcomings of technology, but getting bent out of shape about the semantics of it mystifies me.

 

[Nickp]

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. Electric is the future but in a hybrid capacity, the new RAV4 plug in hybrid is a perfect example. 50 miles of electric range is great for commuting, most people would be perfectly fine with that and never use gas. But, when I want to go up north to go javalina or deer hunting I can just top her up with gasoline and use the battery to charge my electronics. Or if I want to go to Mexico where I wouldn’t be able to charge it I can fill up with gas as well. If the Bronco has a similar system (I think the explorer does have an electric only mode but only a few miles) I would definitely grab it.

 

[Stampede.Offroad]

That in and of itself misses the point of the EV though, doesn't it? If you have to own several vehicles, one of which is efficient, isn't the goal of reduced resource consumption ignored/defeated?

Most of the arguments against this ignore the main point ... the car itself is costly in resources to produce. The tons of raw materials and fuel for energy to make it are unlikely to be recouped by the decrease in the margin to operate it, especially for the first owner.

Most people looking to improve their impact on the environment ignore the 'Reduce' and 'Reuse' elements and continue on with the conspicuous consumption motivations of consumerism that cause much of the problem in the first place.

While urbanization and urban density are increasing, the number of automobiles and autos per household is also still increasing.

 

[OX1]

Um, no. None of that,

If this statement applied to it's previous sentence,

"even GOING across country is bordering on stupidity at this point"

then I misunderstood you. Carry on.............

 

[BroncoMike]

If this statement applied to it's previous sentence,

"even GOING across country is bordering on stupidity at this point"

then I misunderstood you. Carry on.............

Towing cross-county and traveling across the country in a BEV: not practical at all in the first case, and challenging/frustrating/problematic to say the least in the second case.

 

[indio22]

Why is it anxiety? It's common sense to question it, until it is foolproof like it is now with IC engines and gas stations.

"For example, AAA’s testers determined that the Tesla’s range when fully charged at 75 degrees was 239 miles, but it fell to 91 miles, or 38%, at 20 degrees."

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cold-weather-saps-electric-car-batteries-2019-02-07

Been back and forth to my parents house a lot lately after work (their in 80's now and need a lot of help).
It's 52 miles one way, and that's from home. 24 miles round trip to work, assuming no lunch trip or
errands (but if that, add 10-15 more miles).

That's 143 miles in one day with NOWHERE to charge (and no time or desire to stop, not even for gas).
I'm leaving for work @ 5:30 AM and not getting home until sometimes 10 PM. No effin way I am going to stop
anywhere else, not for even 15 minutes.

So in winter, typical current EV (unless you spend 60-100 grand to get max ranges) won't even make it.
And you are not supposed to charge 100% all the time, so really 80%, unless you are clairvoyant and know
when your mother is going to need help with something, at least one day ahead of time (many times, I don't).
Add to that I don't drive 65, I drive at EV range killing speeds.

My DD is the only car I take out in salted roads, so no, I'm not going to maintain 2 cars for
winter use, because one runs out of range and can't be refilled in a timely manner.

So when I can get the same 400 miles of range (in any weather, at any speed) in 2 minutes,
ANYWHERE, then I'd might be interested (if the price is not way more, which is not the case yet).

An all-electric doesn't meet your needs then. But I have a family of 4 with several vehicles in an urban environment, and an all-electric absolutely would meet our needs. The all-electric would likely take on a majority of our driving miles no problem. If I was concerned about range, that would be a largely illegitimate concern on my part, given the reality of my family driving habits, hence range anxiety. In your case driving more miles, you would have a more legitimate range concern.

They got to get the all-electric cost down though. I'm not paying 30+ grand for an all-electric economy car, when I can get a high mpg gasoline economy car for close to half that much. But when all-electrics hit under 20 grand - I'm in.

 

[OX1]

An all-electric doesn't meet your needs then. But I have a family of 4 with several vehicles in an urban environment, and an all-electric absolutely would meet our needs. The all-electric would likely take on a majority of our driving miles no problem. If I was concerned about range, that would be a largely illegitimate concern on my part, given the reality of my family driving habits, hence range anxiety. In your case driving more miles, you would have a more legitimate range concern.

They got to get the all-electric cost down though. I'm not paying 30+ grand for an all-electric economy car, when I can get a high mpg gasoline economy car for close to half that much. But when all-electrics hit under 20 grand - I'm in.

Only have 2 issues with electrics. Those that constantly tell me it will work fine for me, no issues (or even annoyances).
Not saying this is you. And the gov't trying to force them down my throat.

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