- First Name
- Tom
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2023
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- 4
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- 26
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- 90
- Location
- Granger, IN
- Vehicle(s)
- 2020 Jeep Grand Cherokee LtdX
- Your Bronco Model
- Wildtrak
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- #1
My wife and I just wrapped up 3 week / 5800 mile off-road and road-cycling trip through Colorado, Utah and the Eastern Sierras of California. Nothing crazy as the Bronco had to get us back home, but had a blast! I thought I’d share our itinerary for anyone looking for ideas. I apologize for the length…it was a long trip! Enjoy the pics.
In our empty nest years, we’ve done some pretty intense roadbike vacations, usually in the mountains, and we’ve tried to hit as many National Parks and Monuments as possible. After picking up our 2024 Wildtrak, we’re adding a new element to these trips … and loving it! I rigged bike mounts inside the Bronco for the off-road and travel days, and added a Yakima rack for traction boards, a Thule box and bike mounts up top for easy access to the bikes on the cycling days.
9/3: We travelled from the flat cornfields of northern Indiana with the Bronco and bikes. To break up the travel a bit, we stopped in Gunnison, CO for a cycling climb up to the Mt. Crested Butte ski area on 9/5. We heard this was a good off-roading area and look forward to getting back to the area with the Bronco…maybe Gothic Rd to the Gothic ghost mining town in the future.
9/6: We took Hwy 50 thru the Curecanti National Recreation Area to get to Moab. Stopped along the way for a quick hike on the Pine Creek Trail along the Gunnison River. We made one more stop at Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park to drive East Portal Road down to the river. We’d biked this park from the entrance a couple yrs ago but it was great getting back there with the Bronco for a quick trip down the switchbacks to the river. Had to get a picture of the Bronco with the canyon walls in the background! Checked into the Red Cliffs Lodge along the Colorado River in Moab later that night for the Off-Roadeo the next morning.
9/7: The Off-Roadeo in Moab on 9/7/24 was a great experience … the facilities, the planning, the staff, and the instructors. Well orchestrated, relaxed environment and great training! Great weather and the day went fast! Our instructor did a great job and our group was a lot of fun. We did the Dome Plateau Trail that had a little of everything, including some higher speed baja. We had very little experience in off-roading (rented a Rubicon in Death Valley a few yrs ago) and left thoroughly impressed by what our rig was capable of and with a lot of confidence going into the trip we had planned. My wife and I signed up to split the driving. She did the morning and I drove after the lunch stop. She was determined and had a blast.
9/8: Left Red Cliffs for a bike ride from Moab along Potash Rd and ‘Wall Street’ out to the Potash Plant and back. Cool petroglyphs and Jughandle Arch along the Colorado River. We loaded up the bikes and headed back to the Potash Plant to take Shafer Trail into Canyonlands National Park. We stopped at Thelma and Louise Point for a photo-op overlooking the Colorado with the bluffs in the background. From there we headed on into Canyonlands and took the Shafer Switchbacks up to Island in the Sky visitor center, arriving just in time for some great sunset pics. After airing-up, we headed to Deadhorse State Park to enjoy the stars and a glass of wine at one of the International Dark Sky viewing areas in the area. Got some great night shots of the Milky Way with our phones and headed back to Moab for the night.
9/9: Although there were so many more trails we wanted to do in Moab, we headed west to Capitol Reef National Park - Cathedral Valley District for some off-roading in the north part of the park. The south part of the park was closed for road construction. The Fremont River ford into Cathedral Valley was closed due to the earlier storms, so we had to take the longer trail to the east. It was pretty washboarded for the first half and then turned into moondust. I could have aired down even more to smooth things out, but I didn’t (rookie lesson). The trail opened up into a valley of bluffs. We stopped at Sun Temple, Moon Temple, Glass Mountain (a pretty amazing outcropping of glass-like mica) and Gypsum Sinkhole. The trail climbed up some rocky switchbacks to the top of a bluff overlooking Cathedral Valley for some pretty cool sunset views of the Valley. Since we couldn’t complete the loop due to the closed river ford, we backtracked out of the valley in the dark, which was actually fun with great views of the night sky. (added some Baja fog lighting as soon as we got home!) Checked in at the Capitol Reef Resort in Torrey, UT that night.
9/10: Headed to Cedar Breaks National Monument near Brian Head, UT. This was a nice bike ride along the rim with some great overlooks of the colorful canyon that looks a lot like Bryce Canyon NP. We dropped down to the intersection of Hwy 14 and climbed back up to the rim and loaded up the bikes. This was our long drive day … taking us through Cedar City, Las Vegas, thru Death Valley to Lone Pine in the Eastern Sierras of California. Other than tire noise and wind noise from the roof cargo, the Bronco was a joy to drive! Tracked well and was very comfortable for hours of driving into the night. In fact it tracked so well that I kept getting the ‘keep hands on the steering wheel’ warning because of a light touch on the wheel. (need to look into how to disable).
9/11-15: We spent 5 days in the Eastern Sierras and Owens Valley area at the base of Mt Whitney … Lone Pine, Independence, Bishop and Big Pine … and completed some of our bucket list bike climbs up Horseshoe Meadows Road, Onion Valley Road and to Lake Sabrina and South Lake (all maxing around 10,500’).
After our ride on Horseshoe Meadows Rd, we headed southeast in the Bronco to the Cerro Gordo Mine Road, a relatively easy off-road climb up to the mining ghost town of Cerro Gordo with great views into Saline Valley further to the east. This is now privately owned, and parts of the town are being restored. Finished up at sunset.
While we were in Bishop, we gave our Bronco (Dolores) her first real off-road test on Coyote Valley Road up to Funnel Lake. This was challenging for us noobs but was a blast. It was marked ‘difficult’ and we had a tire off the ground on a few occasions and got to practice some spotting skills. The reward was Funnel Lake at the end… a crystal clear Alpine lake at 10,300’ … where we had lunch. A group of five 4WDs camping up there when we arrived. Saw a couple groups of OHVs on the trail. Dinner at Mountain Rambler Brewery in Bishop to ‘debrief’.
We started our last day with a bike climb up White Mountain near Bishop to the Ancient Bristlecone National Forest (around 10,000’) where there are some of the oldest trees on the planet at around 4000 years old and some great amazing of the surrounding valleys and the Eastern Sierras. From there we headed south on 395 toward 191 and Death Valley National Park. Along the way, we stopped at Manzanar National Historic Site, a Japanese-American relocation site and town during WWII. So much sad history at this site…hard to believe this could happen in our country.
We continued east toward Stovepipe Wells in Death Valley. Fortunately the temps in DV were cooler than average for this time of year. It was once again a late night of travel and we had very close calls with a coyote and an owl. On the way, we made a stop at Father Crowley Overlook overlooking Panamint Valley off Hwy 191 for the night sky view. Dark skies, a nearly full moon and few clouds made for some great night pictures of the Bronco and the stars over Panamint Valley.
9/16: Left Stovepipe Wells for a trip north to Racetrack Playa in the northern part of Death Valley. All highway until you get to Ubehebe Crater and then a pretty rough and washboarded gravel road to the Playa. Along the way is Teakettle Junction, where the longstanding tradition is for travelers to hang teakettles on the sign – makes for a fun photo stop. Eventually you get to Racetrack Playa, a perfectly flat dried lakebed with an outcropping of rocks in the center known as the Grandstand. There are a number of small rocks on the lakebed that have left long snail-like trails on the lakebed as they have moved over the decades with freezing and thawing with some occasional water and wind. Strange and unique phenomenon. Lippincott Pass Off-road Trail is an old mining route leading from near the Racetrack back to 191 near Father Crowley Overlook. It was challenging and pretty rocky trail through the mountain pass with some rough washouts and steep dropoffs, but the Bronco handled it well!
9/17: We’ve wanted to do Titus Canyon Rd in Death Valley, but it has been closed after some storms and flooding. Instead, we did Chloride Cliffs Off-road Trail up to the abandoned silver mine town of Chloride City. Had lunch on the mountaintop overlooking the full length of Death Valley. Incredible views comparable to Dante’s View further south. Challenging trail in places with some spotting but fun since we had done it years ago in a Rubicon rental. When we wrapped up there, we stopped at a carwash and made the long drive back to Cedar City, UT for the night.
9/18: Left the hotel and did a road-bike ride from Enoch, UT north to Parowan Gap Petroglyphs and the town of Parowan. Just enjoyed a very nice day and great views of the Indian rock carvings, ranches, cattle, horses and some pronghorn antelope along the way. Loaded up the bike and made a stop in Page, AZ for dinner at the Grand Canyon Brewery before heading on to Kayenta, AZ.
9/19: Started the day with the Monument Valley Scenic Road (gravel). Great scenery and of course fun in the Bronco, but a little touristy for our tastes. We had ridden the main highway on bikes a couple years ago on a great day in the early morning with very little traffic and taken some incredible pictures (including the Forrest Gump shot) so we were ready to move on.
We turned toward Bears Ears National Monument on 261 near Mexican Hat. We planned to go to the House on Fire Pueblo Ruins in Bears Ears. We didn’t realize 261 took us up Moki Dugway switchbacks 1200’ up to the top of Cedar Mesa! Very cool gravel road with switchbacks, often one lane with a couple washouts, and incredible views of Valley of the Gods below! Great surprise and treat! House on Fire is an easy hiking trail leading you back to an incredible rock formation with Pueblo cliff dwelling ruins (permit required). Dinner at the Dolores Brewing Co in Dolores and stayed in Cortez for the night.
9/20: Drove up to Telluride, CO. After a drive through town to see Bridal Vail Falls, we drove Last Dollar Road and had lunch at an overlook … very scenic single lane trail, but high clearance needed. Drove on to Ouray for a few days.
9/21: We really got lucky with the timing as the aspens were at full peak in the Silverton/Ouray area. We had planned to ride the Million Dollar Highway to Red Mountain Pass on the bikes but the leaf-peeping season meant lots of traffic and we decided to off-road instead. We had ridden the highway a couple years ago, but with very minimal traffic in the spring. We figured the drivers are already nervous enough on that stretch without us on the road, so we nixed it this trip – more time to explore! So instead, we did the Alpine Loop Trail starting with Corkscrew Gulch, California Pass and Hurricane Pass. It started to snow more as we started up Engineer Pass and by the time we got to the top we were in a blizzard! The Bronco was a beast, though. Shortly after we started down, guided by snowstakes, we let 3 OHVs pass us so it was a little easier to pick a line on the rocky switchbacks going down with some tracks to follow. Even with the cloud cover though, the mine ruins and white mountaintops and valleys and beautiful colors of the aspens at peak, accented by the snow, were simply incredible. Because we were stopping for pictures and sightseeing, we didn’t get to Cinnamon Pass until it was completely dark. It was snowcovered and lit by the moon, but the skies had cleared and the night skies were beautiful. The Cinnamon Pass sign was lit up by our brakelights with the stars overhead and made for a great photo. It was a long drive down into Silverton in the dark, but a great day, with lots of wildlife and beauty.
9/22: Took a short hike to a mine structure off 550 and then headed up the Ophir Pass Trail to the summit. Visibility was pretty poor up there, so we headed back down into Silverton. From there, we headed north to Red Mountain Pass Trail along 550 between Silverton and Ouray. We loved exploring the old mining structures and history along the way. The trail wasn’t especially difficult with the exception of a few off camber switchbacks and one hill above the tree-line that was very greasy with mud due the rain or snow the night before. There was already one Jeep in the ditch against the embankment without a driver, but we made it up with both lockers while trying to stay on the crown of the trail and not slide off. Impressed with the Bronco’s footing. Many old mines and structures along the way, and a closeup view of the iconic ‘Yankee Girl’ Mine structure was very cool.
9/23: Left Ouray for Alamosa, CO, and stopped off in Silverton because the Durango and Silverton Narrow Guage Train was arriving from Durango. The sights of the old train cars and sounds of the train whistles and engines up close really take you back in time. Would be great to ride that one day.
9/24: Our last stop on the way home was Great Sand Dunes National Park and Preserve. The dunes were massive and we had a long drive ahead, so we just took a short hike out onto the dunes for some pictures and to watch the snowboarders ride the dunes. We did take the opportunity for one more off-road trail, though, and headed east out of the park on Medano Pass Primitive Road which is part of the Preserve. It was a narrow and fun trail with 9 water crossings before reaching the Pass. There were some tough sections and it was pretty narrow through the brush with a couple tougher rock shelf sections just past the Pass, but it was a great way to cap off the trip. Long, straight-through trip home!
We had a great trip and the Bronco was an absolute beast. Pleasure to drive on the highway, which is amazing for what it can do on the trails. No technical issues at all. Now 11,000 on the odometer.
Looking forward to our next trip in the spring with the Bronco! Headed out to Big Bend NP and the southwest in April. In the planning stages, so we welcome any ideas!
In our empty nest years, we’ve done some pretty intense roadbike vacations, usually in the mountains, and we’ve tried to hit as many National Parks and Monuments as possible. After picking up our 2024 Wildtrak, we’re adding a new element to these trips … and loving it! I rigged bike mounts inside the Bronco for the off-road and travel days, and added a Yakima rack for traction boards, a Thule box and bike mounts up top for easy access to the bikes on the cycling days.
9/3: We travelled from the flat cornfields of northern Indiana with the Bronco and bikes. To break up the travel a bit, we stopped in Gunnison, CO for a cycling climb up to the Mt. Crested Butte ski area on 9/5. We heard this was a good off-roading area and look forward to getting back to the area with the Bronco…maybe Gothic Rd to the Gothic ghost mining town in the future.
9/6: We took Hwy 50 thru the Curecanti National Recreation Area to get to Moab. Stopped along the way for a quick hike on the Pine Creek Trail along the Gunnison River. We made one more stop at Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park to drive East Portal Road down to the river. We’d biked this park from the entrance a couple yrs ago but it was great getting back there with the Bronco for a quick trip down the switchbacks to the river. Had to get a picture of the Bronco with the canyon walls in the background! Checked into the Red Cliffs Lodge along the Colorado River in Moab later that night for the Off-Roadeo the next morning.
9/7: The Off-Roadeo in Moab on 9/7/24 was a great experience … the facilities, the planning, the staff, and the instructors. Well orchestrated, relaxed environment and great training! Great weather and the day went fast! Our instructor did a great job and our group was a lot of fun. We did the Dome Plateau Trail that had a little of everything, including some higher speed baja. We had very little experience in off-roading (rented a Rubicon in Death Valley a few yrs ago) and left thoroughly impressed by what our rig was capable of and with a lot of confidence going into the trip we had planned. My wife and I signed up to split the driving. She did the morning and I drove after the lunch stop. She was determined and had a blast.
9/8: Left Red Cliffs for a bike ride from Moab along Potash Rd and ‘Wall Street’ out to the Potash Plant and back. Cool petroglyphs and Jughandle Arch along the Colorado River. We loaded up the bikes and headed back to the Potash Plant to take Shafer Trail into Canyonlands National Park. We stopped at Thelma and Louise Point for a photo-op overlooking the Colorado with the bluffs in the background. From there we headed on into Canyonlands and took the Shafer Switchbacks up to Island in the Sky visitor center, arriving just in time for some great sunset pics. After airing-up, we headed to Deadhorse State Park to enjoy the stars and a glass of wine at one of the International Dark Sky viewing areas in the area. Got some great night shots of the Milky Way with our phones and headed back to Moab for the night.
9/9: Although there were so many more trails we wanted to do in Moab, we headed west to Capitol Reef National Park - Cathedral Valley District for some off-roading in the north part of the park. The south part of the park was closed for road construction. The Fremont River ford into Cathedral Valley was closed due to the earlier storms, so we had to take the longer trail to the east. It was pretty washboarded for the first half and then turned into moondust. I could have aired down even more to smooth things out, but I didn’t (rookie lesson). The trail opened up into a valley of bluffs. We stopped at Sun Temple, Moon Temple, Glass Mountain (a pretty amazing outcropping of glass-like mica) and Gypsum Sinkhole. The trail climbed up some rocky switchbacks to the top of a bluff overlooking Cathedral Valley for some pretty cool sunset views of the Valley. Since we couldn’t complete the loop due to the closed river ford, we backtracked out of the valley in the dark, which was actually fun with great views of the night sky. (added some Baja fog lighting as soon as we got home!) Checked in at the Capitol Reef Resort in Torrey, UT that night.
9/10: Headed to Cedar Breaks National Monument near Brian Head, UT. This was a nice bike ride along the rim with some great overlooks of the colorful canyon that looks a lot like Bryce Canyon NP. We dropped down to the intersection of Hwy 14 and climbed back up to the rim and loaded up the bikes. This was our long drive day … taking us through Cedar City, Las Vegas, thru Death Valley to Lone Pine in the Eastern Sierras of California. Other than tire noise and wind noise from the roof cargo, the Bronco was a joy to drive! Tracked well and was very comfortable for hours of driving into the night. In fact it tracked so well that I kept getting the ‘keep hands on the steering wheel’ warning because of a light touch on the wheel. (need to look into how to disable).
9/11-15: We spent 5 days in the Eastern Sierras and Owens Valley area at the base of Mt Whitney … Lone Pine, Independence, Bishop and Big Pine … and completed some of our bucket list bike climbs up Horseshoe Meadows Road, Onion Valley Road and to Lake Sabrina and South Lake (all maxing around 10,500’).
After our ride on Horseshoe Meadows Rd, we headed southeast in the Bronco to the Cerro Gordo Mine Road, a relatively easy off-road climb up to the mining ghost town of Cerro Gordo with great views into Saline Valley further to the east. This is now privately owned, and parts of the town are being restored. Finished up at sunset.
While we were in Bishop, we gave our Bronco (Dolores) her first real off-road test on Coyote Valley Road up to Funnel Lake. This was challenging for us noobs but was a blast. It was marked ‘difficult’ and we had a tire off the ground on a few occasions and got to practice some spotting skills. The reward was Funnel Lake at the end… a crystal clear Alpine lake at 10,300’ … where we had lunch. A group of five 4WDs camping up there when we arrived. Saw a couple groups of OHVs on the trail. Dinner at Mountain Rambler Brewery in Bishop to ‘debrief’.
We started our last day with a bike climb up White Mountain near Bishop to the Ancient Bristlecone National Forest (around 10,000’) where there are some of the oldest trees on the planet at around 4000 years old and some great amazing of the surrounding valleys and the Eastern Sierras. From there we headed south on 395 toward 191 and Death Valley National Park. Along the way, we stopped at Manzanar National Historic Site, a Japanese-American relocation site and town during WWII. So much sad history at this site…hard to believe this could happen in our country.
We continued east toward Stovepipe Wells in Death Valley. Fortunately the temps in DV were cooler than average for this time of year. It was once again a late night of travel and we had very close calls with a coyote and an owl. On the way, we made a stop at Father Crowley Overlook overlooking Panamint Valley off Hwy 191 for the night sky view. Dark skies, a nearly full moon and few clouds made for some great night pictures of the Bronco and the stars over Panamint Valley.
9/16: Left Stovepipe Wells for a trip north to Racetrack Playa in the northern part of Death Valley. All highway until you get to Ubehebe Crater and then a pretty rough and washboarded gravel road to the Playa. Along the way is Teakettle Junction, where the longstanding tradition is for travelers to hang teakettles on the sign – makes for a fun photo stop. Eventually you get to Racetrack Playa, a perfectly flat dried lakebed with an outcropping of rocks in the center known as the Grandstand. There are a number of small rocks on the lakebed that have left long snail-like trails on the lakebed as they have moved over the decades with freezing and thawing with some occasional water and wind. Strange and unique phenomenon. Lippincott Pass Off-road Trail is an old mining route leading from near the Racetrack back to 191 near Father Crowley Overlook. It was challenging and pretty rocky trail through the mountain pass with some rough washouts and steep dropoffs, but the Bronco handled it well!
9/17: We’ve wanted to do Titus Canyon Rd in Death Valley, but it has been closed after some storms and flooding. Instead, we did Chloride Cliffs Off-road Trail up to the abandoned silver mine town of Chloride City. Had lunch on the mountaintop overlooking the full length of Death Valley. Incredible views comparable to Dante’s View further south. Challenging trail in places with some spotting but fun since we had done it years ago in a Rubicon rental. When we wrapped up there, we stopped at a carwash and made the long drive back to Cedar City, UT for the night.
9/18: Left the hotel and did a road-bike ride from Enoch, UT north to Parowan Gap Petroglyphs and the town of Parowan. Just enjoyed a very nice day and great views of the Indian rock carvings, ranches, cattle, horses and some pronghorn antelope along the way. Loaded up the bike and made a stop in Page, AZ for dinner at the Grand Canyon Brewery before heading on to Kayenta, AZ.
9/19: Started the day with the Monument Valley Scenic Road (gravel). Great scenery and of course fun in the Bronco, but a little touristy for our tastes. We had ridden the main highway on bikes a couple years ago on a great day in the early morning with very little traffic and taken some incredible pictures (including the Forrest Gump shot) so we were ready to move on.
We turned toward Bears Ears National Monument on 261 near Mexican Hat. We planned to go to the House on Fire Pueblo Ruins in Bears Ears. We didn’t realize 261 took us up Moki Dugway switchbacks 1200’ up to the top of Cedar Mesa! Very cool gravel road with switchbacks, often one lane with a couple washouts, and incredible views of Valley of the Gods below! Great surprise and treat! House on Fire is an easy hiking trail leading you back to an incredible rock formation with Pueblo cliff dwelling ruins (permit required). Dinner at the Dolores Brewing Co in Dolores and stayed in Cortez for the night.
9/20: Drove up to Telluride, CO. After a drive through town to see Bridal Vail Falls, we drove Last Dollar Road and had lunch at an overlook … very scenic single lane trail, but high clearance needed. Drove on to Ouray for a few days.
9/21: We really got lucky with the timing as the aspens were at full peak in the Silverton/Ouray area. We had planned to ride the Million Dollar Highway to Red Mountain Pass on the bikes but the leaf-peeping season meant lots of traffic and we decided to off-road instead. We had ridden the highway a couple years ago, but with very minimal traffic in the spring. We figured the drivers are already nervous enough on that stretch without us on the road, so we nixed it this trip – more time to explore! So instead, we did the Alpine Loop Trail starting with Corkscrew Gulch, California Pass and Hurricane Pass. It started to snow more as we started up Engineer Pass and by the time we got to the top we were in a blizzard! The Bronco was a beast, though. Shortly after we started down, guided by snowstakes, we let 3 OHVs pass us so it was a little easier to pick a line on the rocky switchbacks going down with some tracks to follow. Even with the cloud cover though, the mine ruins and white mountaintops and valleys and beautiful colors of the aspens at peak, accented by the snow, were simply incredible. Because we were stopping for pictures and sightseeing, we didn’t get to Cinnamon Pass until it was completely dark. It was snowcovered and lit by the moon, but the skies had cleared and the night skies were beautiful. The Cinnamon Pass sign was lit up by our brakelights with the stars overhead and made for a great photo. It was a long drive down into Silverton in the dark, but a great day, with lots of wildlife and beauty.
9/22: Took a short hike to a mine structure off 550 and then headed up the Ophir Pass Trail to the summit. Visibility was pretty poor up there, so we headed back down into Silverton. From there, we headed north to Red Mountain Pass Trail along 550 between Silverton and Ouray. We loved exploring the old mining structures and history along the way. The trail wasn’t especially difficult with the exception of a few off camber switchbacks and one hill above the tree-line that was very greasy with mud due the rain or snow the night before. There was already one Jeep in the ditch against the embankment without a driver, but we made it up with both lockers while trying to stay on the crown of the trail and not slide off. Impressed with the Bronco’s footing. Many old mines and structures along the way, and a closeup view of the iconic ‘Yankee Girl’ Mine structure was very cool.
9/23: Left Ouray for Alamosa, CO, and stopped off in Silverton because the Durango and Silverton Narrow Guage Train was arriving from Durango. The sights of the old train cars and sounds of the train whistles and engines up close really take you back in time. Would be great to ride that one day.
9/24: Our last stop on the way home was Great Sand Dunes National Park and Preserve. The dunes were massive and we had a long drive ahead, so we just took a short hike out onto the dunes for some pictures and to watch the snowboarders ride the dunes. We did take the opportunity for one more off-road trail, though, and headed east out of the park on Medano Pass Primitive Road which is part of the Preserve. It was a narrow and fun trail with 9 water crossings before reaching the Pass. There were some tough sections and it was pretty narrow through the brush with a couple tougher rock shelf sections just past the Pass, but it was a great way to cap off the trip. Long, straight-through trip home!
We had a great trip and the Bronco was an absolute beast. Pleasure to drive on the highway, which is amazing for what it can do on the trails. No technical issues at all. Now 11,000 on the odometer.
Looking forward to our next trip in the spring with the Bronco! Headed out to Big Bend NP and the southwest in April. In the planning stages, so we welcome any ideas!
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