M210/220 5.13

[Razorback]

Ok so I'm trying every way to get MY21 BL 2 door with 2.7L... 1am 7/14 reservation holder so holding out hope. With that being said, I'm thinking of forgoing Sasquatch to reduce one of the dreaded 6 delays. I could sell the wheel and tires and move more freely to 37s. So I'm looking at the accessory list at the 5.13 ring and pinion. (I know it's late availability, but late availability is better than no availability) I'm curious though because they only show M210 in the 5.13...All other ratios have M210/220. The only M220 5.13 is for the full axle. Why would there not be M220 5.13 rear in the accessories???

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[dgorsett]

In a similar vein: Since various ring and pinion sets are listed in the accessories does it mean that ring gears are not 'welded' and therefore a locker or LSD could be installed in the normal fashion?

 

[Razorback]

In a similar vein: Since various ring and pinion sets are listed in the accessories does it mean that ring gears are not 'welded' and therefore a locker or LSD could be installed in the normal fashion?

I may not understand you, but the ring is bolted.

 

[dgorsett]

I may not understand you, but the ring is bolted.

There had been several threads by some fairly knowledgeable members who thought the ring was welded to the carrier on some Dana 44's ( Ranger) and felt it might be on the Bronco making locker installation after the fact complicated.

Posts by Rocketeer Rick in this thread are enlightening ...or confusing...

Base Model Rear Locking Differential | Bronco6G - 2021+ Ford Bronco Forum, News, Blog & Owners Community

 

[Felix808]

Why would there not be M220 5.13 rear in the accessories???

Delete

There had been several threads by some fairly knowledgeable members who thought the ring was welded to the carrier on some Dana 44's ( Ranger) and felt it might be on the Bronco making locker installation after the fact complicated.

Posts by Rocketeer Rick in this thread are enlightening ...or confusing...

Base Model Rear Locking Differential | Bronco6G - 2021+ Ford Bronco Forum, News, Blog & Owners Community

No production vehicle will have the ring gear welded to the carrier.--Wrong I was with this statement, disregard. (edit)

 

[dgorsett]

Because the rear axle is

No production vehicle will have the ring gear welded to the carrier.

I may be using the wrong terminology, ring gear welded as opposed to bolted to the differential

Welded vs. Bolted Ring Gears | Power Transmission Blog

 

[Rocketeer Rick]

No production vehicle will have the ring gear welded to the carrier.

Sorry, but many production vehicles have ring gears welded to the carrier, and have for some time. Ford only went that way on some applications recently, but GM started using welded gears around 2009 or 2010. So did BMW. I'm sure other companies do to, but those are the ones I have experience with.

The Ranger already has welded on rings on their M190 front diffs, and on non-locking rears. Bronco will follow suit. The M210s with lockers will have bolt on gears, and the M220 rears with locking will too. So, open carriers will be welded, lockers will be bolt on.

So, anyone that is buying any of these aftermarket ring & pinion sets will be able to directly install them on locking axles. But you'll also need a new carrier if you are working on axle with an open diff. But hey, if you're going that far, you probably want to install an LSD or locker anyway...

 

[Razorback]

Because the rear axle is

All the other gear ratios have just the ring and pinion without having to buy the axle. Or you can buy axle also. The 5.13 has the (front)M210 as gears or axle but the M220 only lists the axle. My rear axle wouldn't even have rotated off the assembly line before I want the 5.13 gears though... Not sure why they have just gears for all the other ratios.

 

[Razorback]

I just don't see the benefit of welding except maybe saving a dozen bolts or so. Can't imagine the Bronco doing it though as ratios would more likely need to change as you modded.

 

[Rocketeer Rick]

I just don't see the benefit of welding except maybe saving a dozen bolts or so. Can't imagine the Bronco doing it though as ratios would more likely need to change as you modded.

Sure, you save a few bolts. But its about the production process, it also saves assembly time and complexity. Typically, the assembly process has to align and press the ring onto the carrier, place the bolts into location, run down the bolts with a 10 or 12 gang nut runner, run the bolts to torque, and the machine will document the torquing and associate the data with the axle's serial number for future traceability (in case of a recall). Instead, they press the gear on, then make a pass with a laser welder. Done. So, it saves assembly tack time, and it saves cost, so that's huge. So what if a handful of customers can't unbolt the gear? At least from the bean counting point of view. Dana makes all of these axle models (M190, M210, M220) in both flavors, so I imagine that Ford just buys the ones that are cheaper. Heck, I'm not sure why they don't also buy welded rings on the locking versions, unless there is a technical reason that prohibits that combination of features.

Either way you look at it, this is becoming an increasingly popular process. Ranger already does it. Camaro went that way with the 2016 model - so we're sort of lucky that Mustang hasn't. The new generation Explorer has welded gears. And so will Bronco, at least as I've outlined above. You might not imagine it, but I have high confidence in it.

 

[Razorback]

Sure, you save a few bolts. But its about the production process, it also saves assembly time and complexity. Typically, the assembly process has to press the ring onto the carrier, place the bolts into location, run down the bolts with a 10 or 12 gang nut runner, run the bolts to torque, and the machine will document the torquing and associate the data with the axle's serial number for future traceability (in case of a recall). Instead, they press the gear on, then make a pass with a laser welder. Done. So, it saves assembly tack time, and it saves cost, so that's huge. So what if a handful of customers can't unbolt the gear? At least from the bean counting point of view. Dana makes all of these axle models (M190, M210, M220) in both flavors, so I imagine that Ford just buys the ones that are cheaper. Heck, I'm not sure why they don't also buy welded rings on the locking versions, unless there is a technical reason that prohibits that combination of features.

Either way you look at it, this is becoming an increasingly popular process. Ranger already does it. Camaro went that way with the 2016 model - so we're sort of lucky that Mustang hasn't. The new generation Explorer has welded gears. And so will Bronco, at least as I've outlined above.

You might be right. I would be willing to pay for bolted, just because it might save me down the road.

 

[Rocketeer Rick]

You might be right. I would be willing to pay for bolted, just because it might save me down the road.

Then buy the locking axle versions...

 

[Razorback]

Then buy the locking axle versions...

So Badlands are both locking, so then will they be bolted?

 

[Rocketeer Rick]

So Badlands are both locking, so then will they be bolted?

Yep. As will any Sasquatch or Wildtrack. And of course, the BD will for the rear.

This isn't just a complication for you, as a customer. It also puts a damper on those of us that wish to be able sell aftermarket differentials for this vehicle. Because the same is true from that side of the equation - for me to sell you a diff, I need to convince you to also buy a new ring and pinion and pay for a more complex install. But it does make for an incentive to swap out R&P ratios, if you're so inclined. And clearly Ford Racing will sell them.

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