M210 Front Axle Swap?

[Slyder]

Any chance you could ask the guy you've been talking to about how we get the FAD to not be recognized after swapping the axle? It's causing dash lights, and obviously, the inability to switch into 4WD. I've been comparing the hex to the different models and they all seem to be different based on tons of various options. Perhaps he has a solution to this, even if we don't have a solution for full wire integration, we still need a way to be able to use 4WD with the swap at least until they come out with a way for better integration? As Just_Jim said, he tried to reach out and no one responded. Ford performance hung up on me when I asked about it, he told me it's not possible, but if you ask any questions beyond that to validate what they're saying, they seem to get pretty pissy.

I'll see what happens, but no guarantee I'll get an answer. I don't want to press my luck and get on his bad side.
I'm just surprised he gave me what he did. So I'm not sure if pressing the matter more will result in anything.

I laid out a scenario to him where if I purchased a Black Diamond Advanced (non-Sasquatch) and later on wanted to swap in the M210 front from Ford Performance.
I said it was odd they didn't have a plug-n-play kit to do so and was wondering if they had one in the works.
My comment after this question was "It seems a huge over-sight if you don't, since this is pretty much what you intended this for and what owners/future owners well eventually do."

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[Yillbs]

I'll see what happens, but no guarantee I'll get an answer. I don't want to press my luck and get on his bad side.
I'm just surprised he gave me what he did. So I'm not sure if pressing the matter more will result in anything.

I laid out a scenario to him where if I purchased a Black Diamond Advanced (non-Sasquatch) and later on wanted to swap in the M210 front from Ford Performance.
I said it was odd they didn't have a plug-n-play kit to do so and was wondering if they had one in the works.
My comment after this question was "It seems a huge over-sight if you don't, since this is pretty much what you intended this for and what owners/future owners well eventually do."

I've seen a few people make note that this is what ford intended, however; I disagree. The website is very clear about what those parts are for.

Complete ready-to-install M210 front drive unit.

• Production M210 front drive unit 4.70 ratio w/electronic locking differential
• Replacement FDU for 2021-2022 Broncos equipped with the Sasquatch package

***FRONT AND REAR AXLE RATIOS MUST BE THE SAME***
ATTENTION: This part is intended as a replacement part for use only in the application(s) identified in the product description. Installation of this part in a vehicle for which it is not intended may violate U.S. and Canadian laws and regulations related to motor vehicle emissions.

They are -extremely- clear that it's for replacement parts on a sas bronco, not to upgrade to a sas bronco. So i'm not sure the logic we're using that they intended for the upgrade to take place is a valid argument.

 

[Slyder]

He didn't correct me or tell me otherwise, which led me to believe that it was also an intent to sell it as an upgrade to non-sasquatch Broncos. Then the fact he actually confirmed a plug-n-play kit was coming confirmed my thoughts and question.

Right now, all we can do is wait and see what that kit will all include.

As far as when it'll be on their site, I have no clue. He said a few weeks, but we've know about the severe duty steering rack since last year's SEMA and it's still not on the Ford Performance site.

 

[Rough Rider]

Did you call the Ford Performance Tech Line? I heard it was pretty helpful.

 

[Yillbs]

Did you call the Ford Performance Tech Line? I heard it was pretty helpful.

Will try now. But so far they have hung up on me once, and once on the shop helping me. But will call again now and see what they say.

 

[Yillbs]

Did you call the Ford Performance Tech Line? I heard it was pretty helpful.

The guy on the phone had zero idea what to do, he suggested I email the " super secret ford engineering email " and wait for a reply. I've already done this, and I believe Just_Jim did too and neither of us have gotten a reply. He did insinuate it may take weeks, not days, so I guess we wait.

 

[Rocketeer Rick]

I've seen a few people make note that this is what ford intended, however; I disagree. The website is very clear about what those parts are for.

Complete ready-to-install M210 front drive unit.

• Production M210 front drive unit 4.70 ratio w/electronic locking differential
• Replacement FDU for 2021-2022 Broncos equipped with the Sasquatch package

***FRONT AND REAR AXLE RATIOS MUST BE THE SAME***
ATTENTION: This part is intended as a replacement part for use only in the application(s) identified in the product description. Installation of this part in a vehicle for which it is not intended may violate U.S. and Canadian laws and regulations related to motor vehicle emissions.

They are -extremely- clear that it's for replacement parts on a sas bronco, not to upgrade to a sas bronco. So i'm not sure the logic we're using that they intended for the upgrade to take place is a valid argument.

I entirely understand and can get behind the logic of this argument.

But...why on earth would they market these by way of Ford Performance if there was no intention of upgrade swaps? Ford already has a dealer parts network for selling direct replacement parts. Ford Performance's entire mission is market upgrade & performance parts. I'd sooner argue that all the direct replacement language is strictly CYA from a liability viewpoint, but they're selling these as upgrades...

 

[Yillbs]

I entirely understand and can get behind the logic of this argument.

But...why on earth would they market these by way of Ford Performance if there was no intention of upgrade swaps? Ford already has a dealer parts network for selling direct replacement parts. Ford Performance's entire mission is market upgrade & performance parts. I'd sooner argue that all the direct replacement language is strictly CYA from a liability viewpoint, but they're selling these as upgrades...

CYA I agree, but it also allows them to say things like, sorry, can't support that. My local dealer says that if i put the parts on and it's not made for my bronco, then they have no reason to support me with it. I tried to get information from ford performance to confirm I only need normal 12v for the electronic lockers and they told me I can't directly wire to them because it was " too dangerous ", but soon as I pressed any further, they just got angry and basically repeated " did you need anything else ? " kind of attitude.

While you're probably right, the fact they advertise them as replacement parts only indicates they 100% have a way out of helping us when we cause things like 4wd not working, which is the current issue we're all facing.

 

[Rocketeer Rick]

Well, either way, I'm curious as to where this thread will lead. I'd be surprised if this sort of thing doesn't also carryover into the Ranger community.

 

[Just_Jim]

The response I got from FP was "I'm still waiting to hear back from engineering".

I've found VIN's which should be close to my BB albeit w/SAS, and will be looking through those over the weekend.

 

[jjack50]

I've seen a few people make note that this is what ford intended, however; I disagree. The website is very clear about what those parts are for.

Complete ready-to-install M210 front drive unit.

• Production M210 front drive unit 4.70 ratio w/electronic locking differential
• Replacement FDU for 2021-2022 Broncos equipped with the Sasquatch package

***FRONT AND REAR AXLE RATIOS MUST BE THE SAME***
ATTENTION: This part is intended as a replacement part for use only in the application(s) identified in the product description. Installation of this part in a vehicle for which it is not intended may violate U.S. and Canadian laws and regulations related to motor vehicle emissions.

They are -extremely- clear that it's for replacement parts on a sas bronco, not to upgrade to a sas bronco. So i'm not sure the logic we're using that they intended for the upgrade to take place is a valid argument.

Ford Performance also has a M210 with the 4.46 ratio of the Black Diamond that is not used in any Sasquatch version. There are instructions as to which drive parts are need to be changed to convert from the 190 to the 210 on the Ford Performance site itself. That tells me and others that Ford DOES intend the 4.46 M210 to be usable to replace the 190 in the Black Diamond.

 

[Bigmoose]

I poked though some as built data comparing my Advanced BD (No FAD) to a similar BD (FAD) without the advanced t-case. Both non SAS. Here is some notable module data differences:

AWD Module:
NoFAD - 703-163-01 (3)100 0000 00
FAD - 703-163-01 (4)100 0000 00
Have not found a decoder for the AWD module, not sure what this actually changes.

BCM:
NoFad - 726-16-02 (4)500 0000 00
FAD - 726-16-02 (8)500 0000 00
The F150 decoding has this as 4=Selectable 4WD, 8=AWD

ABS:
NoFAD - 760-02-01 2012 1022 2(3)
FAD - 760-02-021 2012 1022 (2)
The F150 decoding has this as 3=Driveline 2TOD (Torque on demand), 2=Driveline ESOF (Electronic shift on fly)

PCM:
NoFAD - 7E0-163-01 (31)00 0100 00
FAD - 7E0-163-01 (41)00 0100 00
F150 has this as only has 41= DT FER4x4: ESOF (Elect Shft On Fly) w/ 4x4L Hardwired Swtch Input w/o TCSS (Transfer Case Spd Sensor). No listing for code 31.


You could try messing with these if you want to live dangerously...

 

[Just_Jim]

I poked though some as built data comparing my Advanced BD (No FAD) to a similar BD (FAD) without the advanced t-case. Both non SAS. Here is some notable module data differences:

AWD Module:
NoFAD - 703-163-01 (3)100 0000 00
FAD - 703-163-01 (4)100 0000 00
Have not found a decoder for the AWD module, not sure what this actually changes.

BCM:
NoFad - 726-16-02 (4)500 0000 00
FAD - 726-16-02 (8)500 0000 00
The F150 decoding has this as 4=Selectable 4WD, 8=AWD

ABS:
NoFAD - 760-02-01 2012 1022 2(3)
FAD - 760-02-021 2012 1022 (2)
The F150 decoding has this as 3=Driveline 2TOD (Torque on demand), 2=Driveline ESOF (Electronic shift on fly)

PCM:
NoFAD - 7E0-163-01 (31)00 0100 00
FAD - 7E0-163-01 (41)00 0100 00
F150 has this as only has 41= DT FER4x4: ESOF (Elect Shft On Fly) w/ 4x4L Hardwired Swtch Input w/o TCSS (Transfer Case Spd Sensor). No listing for code 31.


You could try messing with these if you want to live dangerously...

AWD & BCM code changes were accepted and did get my system out of a total AWD system outage (no light on the rotary control and no axle designated as active on the dash display).

ABS code as posted doesn't make sense to what I was seeing in Forescan, so that wasn't changed.

PCM wouldn't "take" on mine. "Install interrupted" or whatever that message is.

I'm now going to look at the AB files of the VINs I pulled off trucks for sale and see if we can't figger this out.

 

[kodiakisland]

Ford Performance also has a M210 with the 4.46 ratio of the Black Diamond that is not used in any Sasquatch version. There are instructions as to which drive parts are need to be changed to convert from the 190 to the 210 on the Ford Performance site itself. That tells me and others that Ford DOES intend the 4.46 M210 to be usable to replace the 190 in the Black Diamond.

Interesting. That may be the one I need to put 4.88s in.
I wonder if these are made for with or without 4A?

 

[Bigmoose]

I believe the AWD module drives the advanced tcase torque bias. I assume the change above to AWD is related to this feature.

Did you get a new hero switch pack with the front locker switch?

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