Sparkherd

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I just want a rear lock with 3.73 gears for my wifes snow bronco!!
I'm seriously considering stuffing a Detroit in the 8.8 in my 2010 Ranger.
I've got a Detroit in the Dana 60 in my 85 F-250, and I f
ookin L-U-V it.
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Richw23

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$1800 and you still need half shafts, different front driveshaft, and you still have the entire rear axle with a different gearset (and potentially no locker) to deal with. You're probably looking at an easy $3000-3500 + labor. Just Sasquatch it from the factory and be done with it
Thats why i saw the stats and did it from factory… only made sense to me.👍🏻
 

Rocketeer Rick

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Thank you... I wasn't exactly sure, I was looking at that but not confident enough that I got it right to be sure! I don't even have my Bronco yet... Thank you again!!!

So I was able to find both on Amazon:

Eaton 912A585 Detroit Truetrac 27 Spline Differential for Dana 30 $490.25
Yukon (YG D30-427) High Performance Ring and Pinion Gear Set for Dana 30 $258.76

If that's correct, mind you, the gear setup needs to be done correctly, and although I have done gear setup in the past, I would rather take the differential out and to a shop to have it done right - because I know that they will save me time getting it dialed in.

Correct me if I got anything wrong above, because for $800, that seems like a great low-buck deal plus a bit of labor in getting the gears dialed in.
Are we sure that the M190 interchanges with the Dana 30? If that's been posted, I missed it.

If the M220 is any indication, I would be cautious about making that assumption. Even though both Ford and Jeep are calling the M220 a "Dana 44" in marketing material, it has zero commonality with the traditional D44. Anyone buying Dana 44 gears, bearings, diffs, etc to install in an M220 is going to be very disappointed.

I have no confidence that the same isn't true with the M190; I think Dana started from scratch when designing the Advantek axles. I'd be happy, though, if it did work out to be the same.
 

mpeugeot

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Are we sure that the M190 interchanges with the Dana 30? If that's been posted, I missed it.

If the M220 is any indication, I would be cautious about making that assumption. Even though both Ford and Jeep are calling the M220 a "Dana 44" in marketing material, it has zero commonality with the traditional D44. Anyone buying Dana 44 gears, bearings, diffs, etc to install in an M220 is going to be very disappointed.

I have no confidence that the same isn't true with the M190; I think Dana started from scratch when designing the Advantek axles. I'd be happy, though, if it did work out to be the same.
I am not sure, which is why I didn't order anything tonight. I want to have my Bronco unless I know 100% for sure before dropping cash, but if that's the case, it would be a pretty awesome low buck upgrade to the otherwise open front diff on my Outer Banks. I am not a hard core off-roader, but I have managed to get myself stuck where having a front or rear locker would have easily resolved the issue. A rear locker and torsen front differential would match up well to my personal level of off-roading.
 

mrnoodley

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Are we sure that the M190 interchanges with the Dana 30? If that's been posted, I missed it.

If the M220 is any indication, I would be cautious about making that assumption. Even though both Ford and Jeep are calling the M220 a "Dana 44" in marketing material, it has zero commonality with the traditional D44. Anyone buying Dana 44 gears, bearings, diffs, etc to install in an M220 is going to be very disappointed.

I have no confidence that the same isn't true with the M190; I think Dana started from scratch when designing the Advantek axles. I'd be happy, though, if it did work out to be the same.
Yes, the M190 gears are directly compatible with the M186 (Dana 30) that was used in the 07-18 Wranglers and the M190 in the 18+ JLs. They still use the standard 27 spline D30 carrier that hasn't changed in decades. The M210 and M220 are completely new designs that don't share anything with older D44s.

I own an offroad shop in NJ, we regear 5-6 vehicles a week and sell a good number of diff parts to retail customers for DIY installation. Feel free to reach out if you ever have any diff questions, it's what I do every day.
 

mpeugeot

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Yes, the M190 gears are directly compatible with the M186 (Dana 30) that was used in the 07-18 Wranglers and the M190 in the 18+ JLs. They still use the standard 27 spline D30 carrier that hasn't changed in decades. The M210 and M220 are completely new designs that don't share anything with older D44s.

I own an offroad shop in NJ, we regear 5-6 vehicles a week and sell a good number of diff parts to retail customers for DIY installation. Feel free to reach out if you ever have any diff questions, it's what I do every day.
That's really helpful. So here's a question, do you see any real downside to putting this particular limited slip diff in the Bronco front axle. My past experience with Torsen type differentials suggests that it would be a good middle ground between an open diff and the M210.
 

mrnoodley

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That's really helpful. So here's a question, do you see any real downside to putting this particular limited slip diff in the Bronco front axle. My past experience with Torsen type differentials suggests that it would be a good middle ground between an open diff and the M210.
Nearly all Broncos with front M190s have the basic transfercase and a front axle disconnect, so in 2WD it'll drive completely like factory. Without the front disconnect you'll notice slightly higher steering effort with any helical diff(Torsen, TruTrac, etc). It's not something that bothers me personally, but it is noticible.

Helical diffs transfer torque to the wheel with more grip, it's always trying to make each wheel turn teh same speed which gives a firmer return-to-center feel. This won't be an issue in a Bronco unless you have the advanced transfercase and nearly all of them are Badlands, Wildtracks, or Sasquatchs which wouldn't have the M190 up front.
 

mpeugeot

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Nearly all Broncos with front M190s have the basic transfercase and a front axle disconnect, so in 2WD it'll drive completely like factory. Without the front disconnect you'll notice slightly higher steering effort with any helical diff(Torsen, TruTrac, etc). It's not something that bothers me personally, but it is noticible.

Helical diffs transfer torque to the wheel with more grip, it's always trying to make each wheel turn teh same speed which gives a firmer return-to-center feel. This won't be an issue in a Bronco unless you have the advanced transfercase and nearly all of them are Badlands, Wildtracks, or Sasquatchs which wouldn't have the M190 up front.
Of course I have the advanced transfer case... LOL.

Ya, slightly higher steering effort is not something that would bother me much, this isn't a canyon carver. Most of my on-road driving is straight highway or very nearly straight. My off-road driving is likely to be higher speed looser stuff (much less violent than rock crawling) where a helical diff would likely be a real advantage.

Given that, I think that I am going to attempt it. It will make for an interesting experiment. I could see where it might accelerate tire wear, but eh, I could live with that too.
 

mrnoodley

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Of course I have the advanced transfer case... LOL.

Ya, slightly higher steering effort is not something that would bother me much, this isn't a canyon carver. Most of my on-road driving is straight highway or very nearly straight. My off-road driving is likely to be higher speed looser stuff (much less violent than rock crawling) where a helical diff would likely be a real advantage.

Given that, I think that I am going to attempt it. It will make for an interesting experiment. I could see where it might accelerate tire wear, but eh, I could live with that too.
I've never particularly minded the feel, but I always make sure that people are aware before we install a front helical LSD..

BTW, I like your fleet.. I had a TL1000S years ago (very similar to the SV1000)and have since been collecting Ducatis and vintage Hondas. Haven't had a Fcar yet, but am thinking of taking the leap from my 996TT to a used California or FF. I'd love a 360 or 430, but the pricesare just absurd right now.
 

mpeugeot

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I've never particularly minded the feel, but I always make sure that people are aware before we install a front helical LSD..

BTW, I like your fleet.. I had a TL1000S years ago (very similar to the SV1000)and have since been collecting Ducatis and vintage Hondas. Haven't had a Fcar yet, but am thinking of taking the leap from my 996TT to a used California or FF. I'd love a 360 or 430, but the pricesare just absurd right now.
I actually have a TL1000s in my storage unit waiting to be put back together (Ohlins rear shock) with a custom triple and GSR1000 Showa BPF's waiting to go on it. :) These are great bikes.

I think the California is under-rated, the 360 is in the depreciation sweet-spot (as are some 550's and 575's - although quickly leaving the sweet spot). If you look around for a 360/430 long enough, you might find a good deal. The 458's are typically absurd, but amazing. The 6 speed manual in the 355 is similar to the 360 and is a great shifting transmission.

Would love to have some Ducati's; always joke about my SV being the poor man's Ducati. LOL. A 996TT is a sweet ride.
 

MaverickMan

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BUT you don't get the factory warranty
Are we sure that the M190 interchanges with the Dana 30? If that's been posted, I missed it.

If the M220 is any indication, I would be cautious about making that assumption. Even though both Ford and Jeep are calling the M220 a "Dana 44" in marketing material, it has zero commonality with the traditional D44. Anyone buying Dana 44 gears, bearings, diffs, etc to install in an M220 is going to be very disappointed.

I have no confidence that the same isn't true with the M190; I think Dana started from scratch when designing the Advantek axles. I'd be happy, though, if it did work out to be the same.
So I own a AMC Eagle(soon to be 2), they have a IFS front diff. Dana 30. AMC used 3 different housings, all dana 30 and none of their internals properly interchange, some with mods, some with mix and match. And if you get lucky and have a high(numerical) gear from the first 2 years you can maybe use regular dana 30 parts.

In conclusion interchangability of differentials is never a exact science. Not to mention the workers in the axle plants are on the verge of a strike maybe? So who knows what they may shim or shave to screw the boss's tolerance sheets for interchangability.
 

mrnoodley

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I actually have a TL1000s in my storage unit waiting to be put back together (Ohlins rear shock) with a custom triple and GSR1000 Showa BPF's waiting to go on it. :) These are great bikes.

I think the California is under-rated, the 360 is in the depreciation sweet-spot (as are some 550's and 575's - although quickly leaving the sweet spot). If you look around for a 360/430 long enough, you might find a good deal. The 458's are typically absurd, but amazing. The 6 speed manual in the 355 is similar to the 360 and is a great shifting transmission.

Would love to have some Ducati's; always joke about my SV being the poor man's Ducati. LOL. A 996TT is a sweet ride.
I was looking at 550s, I always loved the front engine V12 cars. It seems like just as they started dropping into my price range the car market went crazy and they are going for $30-40k more than they used to.

I'm in no rush, I'm sure the right deal will come along sooner or later.
It's cool to see someone else with similar taste in vehicles.

We just got the email that our DirtMtn 2.3/7speed 2dr Lux Badlands is ready to ship. I've driven a few 2.3/auto 4drs, but really can't wait to get some seat time in the manual 2dr before we tear into it.
 

mrnoodley

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So I own a AMC Eagle(soon to be 2), they have a IFS front diff. Dana 30. AMC used 3 different housings, all dana 30 and none of their internals properly interchange, some with mods, some with mix and match. And if you get lucky and have a high(numerical) gear from the first 2 years you can maybe use regular dana 30 parts.

In conclusion interchangability of differentials is never a exact science. Not to mention the workers in the axle plants are on the verge of a strike maybe? So who knows what they may shim or shave to screw the boss's tolerance sheets for interchangability.
There have definitely been a lot of revisions over the years, but I'm surprised to hear about the different internals. I know the carriers are the same from CJ5 era D30s to current but don't know much about the IFS setup in the Eagle.

D30 gears have changed half a dozen times over the years, but the carriers have remained consistent, but I'll be honest and admit that we don't work on many vehicles that are 40+ years old.

I'm pretty confident about the Bronco parts. I don't think Dana would change the carrier or gears from the solid axle M190 in the JL and the IFS M190 in the Bronco, the rear M220s are almost identical. We'll have a non Sas in the shop in a few weeks and I'll be able to confirm 100%.
 

mpeugeot

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I was looking at 550s, I always loved the front engine V12 cars. It seems like just as they started dropping into my price range the car market went crazy and they are going for $30-40k more than they used to.

I'm in no rush, I'm sure the right deal will come along sooner or later.
It's cool to see someone else with similar taste in vehicles.

We just got the email that our DirtMtn 2.3/7speed 2dr Lux Badlands is ready to ship. I've driven a few 2.3/auto 4drs, but really can't wait to get some seat time in the manual 2dr before we tear into it.
The 550's should have one more drop left in them once the market calms down some. If you know who Mike Sheehan is in California, he often has knowledge of Ferraris hidden around the country that may be in particularly good shape and still within reason. If you don't, DM me and I will send you his information (he's on the other side of the country but he's an invaluable resource).

You must be excited about your Bronco, sounds like a great setup. I really wanted the V6 and knew that I was not likely going to really take advantage of everything the badlands was capable of, so I ended up in a 2 Door OBX 2.7 Advanced 4x4 with Lux and Tow (08/05 DM Build)... so hopefully I will hear something good soon.
 

MaverickMan

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There have definitely been a lot of revisions over the years, but I'm surprised to hear about the different internals. I know the carriers are the same from CJ5 era D30s to current but don't know much about the IFS setup in the Eagle.

D30 gears have changed half a dozen times over the years, but the carriers have remained consistent, but I'll be honest and admit that we don't work on many vehicles that are 40+ years old.

I'm pretty confident about the Bronco parts. I don't think Dana would change the carrier or gears from the solid axle M190 in the JL and the IFS M190 in the Bronco, the rear M220s are almost identical. We'll have a non Sas in the shop in a few weeks and I'll be able to confirm 100%.
The best part about the AMC Eagles is that the only real source of information on them is in the muddy part at the back of a junkyard, with a tree growing out of it. That and most of the people that built them and worked on them in their day are either dead or in hiding(from eagle freeks calling them at 3am for viscous coupler identification).

Eagle roadtrip video with my wife.
Eagle Adventure
 
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