Rocketeer Rick

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Yes, the M190 gears are directly compatible with the M186 (Dana 30) that was used in the 07-18 Wranglers and the M190 in the 18+ JLs. They still use the standard 27 spline D30 carrier that hasn't changed in decades. The M210 and M220 are completely new designs that don't share anything with older D44s.

I own an offroad shop in NJ, we regear 5-6 vehicles a week and sell a good number of diff parts to retail customers for DIY installation. Feel free to reach out if you ever have any diff questions, it's what I do every day.
Thanks for info. As someone that designs / builds helical diffs (Torsen™), specific information can be hard to find and is always appreciated. When I started working on a design for the M220, I was initially convinced that I was given the wrong files because they were so different from the old 44. So I was real leery about the M190... So, then, is it safe to assume that all Bronco ratios are 3.73:1 and numerically higher, that Ford is only using the one version of the Dana 30 case? Which may be moot as far as Ford is concerned, since they're only using welded-gear versions anyway. But on the aftermarket side, it'll just be the high-numeric versions...
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mpeugeot

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Thanks for info. As someone that designs / builds helical diffs (Torsen™), specific information can be hard to find and is always appreciated. When I started working on a design for the M220, I was initially convinced that I was given the wrong files because they were so different from the old 44. So I was real leery about the M190... So, then, is it safe to assume that all Bronco ratios are 3.73:1 and numerically higher, that Ford is only using the one version of the Dana 30 case? Which may be moot as far as Ford is concerned, since they're only using welded-gear versions anyway. But on the aftermarket side, it'll just be the high-numeric versions...
Yep, the OBX M190 and M220 rear locker are 4.27:1 and the BD uses the 4.46. The BL, WT, and FE all use the M210.
 

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Thanks for info. As someone that designs / builds helical diffs (Torsen™), specific information can be hard to find and is always appreciated. When I started working on a design for the M220, I was initially convinced that I was given the wrong files because they were so different from the old 44. So I was real leery about the M190... So, then, is it safe to assume that all Bronco ratios are 3.73:1 and numerically higher, that Ford is only using the one version of the Dana 30 case? Which may be moot as far as Ford is concerned, since they're only using welded-gear versions anyway. But on the aftermarket side, it'll just be the high-numeric versions...
That seems accurate as far as I can tell.

I have 3D models of the Jeep Advantec axles if that helps you at all with your designs. Feel free to reach out if you could use them and I'll check to see what we have in our library of models.
 

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That seems accurate as far as I can tell.

I have 3D models of the Jeep Advantec axles if that helps you at all with your designs. Feel free to reach out if you could use them and I'll check to see what we have in our library of models.
That would actually be extremely helpful. I often have to resort to finding axles in junkyards and reverse engineering them first. And you never know where in the tolerance range used parts are. I will have to contact you later.

The one issue I seem to come across with swapping in an aftermarket LSD into the M190 is availability of gear ratios for bolt-on ring gears. If the Dana 30 gears are the same, that helps. So, the 4.70 gears only go with models that have the M210 up front, so that's not a concern. If you're in a model with 3.73:1 axle gears, that should be readily available. But models with the 4.27:1 & 4.46:1 final drive might be stuck. That's not a standard aftermarket ratio from what I've seen. I don't think that either 4.10 or 4.56:1 is quite close enough to cut it, particularly if used with the A4WD. Has Ford offered up gears in those ratios that will bolt on?
 

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That would actually be extremely helpful. I often have to resort to finding axles in junkyards and reverse engineering them first. And you never know where in the tolerance range used parts are. I will have to contact you later.

The one issue I seem to come across with swapping in an aftermarket LSD into the M190 is availability of gear ratios for bolt-on ring gears. If the Dana 30 gears are the same, that helps. So, the 4.70 gears only go with models that have the M210 up front, so that's not a concern. If you're in a model with 3.73:1 axle gears, that should be readily available. But models with the 4.27:1 & 4.46:1 final drive might be stuck. That's not a standard aftermarket ratio from what I've seen. I don't think that either 4.10 or 4.56:1 is quite close enough to cut it, particularly if used with the A4WD. Has Ford offered up gears in those ratios that will bolt on?
I ordered the 4.27 the other day.

Yukon (YG D30-427) High Performance Ring and Pinion Gear Set for Dana 30
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0078U9T5C/

I think that a 4.30:1 was also available, but since I found the 4.27, it's a moot point. I couldn't find the 4.46:1
 
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Rocketeer Rick

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Interesting. Going directly to Yukon Gear's website, they don't show a 4.27 set for the M190-D30...

Well here's hoping I'm not fucked... LOL... Otherwise, I might be busting out the TIG welder and drilling out the old plug welds from the carrier... which honestly doesn't even bother me. I've done sketchier things in the past... LOL.
 

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Well here's hoping I'm not fucked... LOL... Otherwise, I might be busting out the TIG welder and drilling out the old plug welds from the carrier... which honestly doesn't even bother me. I've done sketchier things in the past... LOL.
Its not that simple. For one, its not plug welded but laser welded instead. You'll need a lathe to remove the weld. And the diff case flange and ring gear interface is (typically) entirely different from the bolted version. Since the welded version doesn't have to accommodate bolts, the flange doesn't have to be nearly as large in diameter. And in most cases I've seen so far, the flange isn't necessarily in the same spot. So, the bolted ring simply doesn't line up or mate up on the welded version of the carrier.

Its also worth noting that any axle manufacturer that I've worked with so far has put a huge amount of work into developing the weld process to produce a weld that withstands the can-opener fatigue type of bending thrust loads that hypoid gears generate. Also, there's probably a dissimilar metal factor to the weld. I'd bet that Dana uses ductile iron for the diff case and 8620 or similar for the ring gear. So, though stranger things have happened, I wouldn't count on that working.

Hopefully the gears you ordered are correct and Yukon's site is just not organized as well as it could be...
 

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Thank you for pointing all this out, because, as you can obviously tell... I have 0 experience with a Dana 30.

Its not that simple. For one, its not plug welded but laser welded instead. You'll need a lathe to remove the weld.
Yes, I have access to a rather large one.

And the diff case flange and ring gear interface is (typically) entirely different from the bolted version. Since the welded version doesn't have to accommodate bolts, the flange doesn't have to be nearly as large in diameter. And in most cases I've seen so far, the flange isn't necessarily in the same spot. So, the bolted ring simply doesn't line up or mate up on the welded version of the carrier.
That's more of a show stopper.

Its also worth noting that any axle manufacturer that I've worked with so far has put a huge amount of work into developing the weld process to produce a weld that withstands the can-opener fatigue type of bending thrust loads that hypoid gears generate. Also, there's probably a dissimilar metal factor to the weld. I'd bet that Dana uses ductile iron for the diff case and 8620 or similar for the ring gear. So, though stranger things have happened, I wouldn't count on that working.
You can TIG weld anything with the right gas, electrode, and patience... However, it may not always work as well as one would hope the first time out with exotic metals (Titanium, Inconel, Hastelloy, monel, platinum, tantalum, tungsten, even some more exotic aluminum alloys like 7075-T651 which is not supposed to be weldable), but they all can be TIG welded.

While the Dana ring gear uses either 8620 or 4320 Steel and the stock diff carrier is likely ductile iron, I am pretty sure that the Eaton 912A585 is either a cast or forged steel component (which is what is going back in there). I honestly just don't want to have to mess with that issue though. I much prefer the idea of the parts playing nice together!

Hopefully the gears you ordered are correct and Yukon's site is just not organized as well as it could be...
This would definitely be my preference... I don't want to have to custom machine everything, that's a pain in the ass. Plus, someone has to go first, might as well be my clueless ass. LOL. :)
 
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Rocketeer Rick

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You can TIG weld anything with the right gas, electrode, and patience... However, it may not always work as well as one would hope the first time out with exotic metals (Titanium, Inconel, Hastelloy, monel, platinum, tantalum, tungsten, even some more exotic aluminum alloys like 7075-T651 which is not supposed to be weldable), but they all can be TIG welded.
Oh, I'm aware that it can be done. We've actually done exactly that on prototype builds before. We turned the weld and removed the gear, then made a one-off housing that exactly matched the now-modified ring gear, then had it TIG'ed on very carefully so as to not build too much heat and distort the gear. And it worked well enough to demonstrate the differential operation. But it only had to work for a couple of weeks.

Welding steel to cast iron is just an added level of complication for a weld that has withstand a lot of stress. That was my point. What I'd get away with in a functional prototype and what I'd accept on a vehicle I have to rely on are two different things...
 

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Oh, I'm aware that it can be done. We've actually done exactly that on prototype builds before. We turned the weld and removed the gear, then made a one-off housing that exactly matched the now-modified ring gear, then had it TIG'ed on very carefully so as to not build too much heat and distort the gear. And it worked well enough to demonstrate the differential operation. But it only had to work for a couple of weeks.

Welding steel to cast iron is just an added level of complication for a weld that has withstand a lot of stress. That was my point. What I'd get away with in a functional prototype and what I'd accept on a vehicle I have to rely on are two different things...
Welding steel to cast iron just sucks and is a PAIN IN THE ASS!!! LOL. BTDT! I forgot to add all the issues with pre-heating ect.
 

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Oh, I'm aware that it can be done. We've actually done exactly that on prototype builds before. We turned the weld and removed the gear, then made a one-off housing that exactly matched the now-modified ring gear, then had it TIG'ed on very carefully so as to not build too much heat and distort the gear. And it worked well enough to demonstrate the differential operation. But it only had to work for a couple of weeks.

Welding steel to cast iron is just an added level of complication for a weld that has withstand a lot of stress. That was my point. What I'd get away with in a functional prototype and what I'd accept on a vehicle I have to rely on are two different things...
Welding steel to cast iron just sucks and is a PAIN IN THE ASS!!! LOL. BTDT!
Weird. When I searched, I did by telling it I had a JL with a Dana 30. Seemed like an expedient way to narrow it down. In that search, it is not an option that comes up, even now. Skips from 4.11 to 4.56.
That's why I am now worried, it's not listed as compatible with the JL, so it probably has the wrong pinion splines.
 

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Welding steel to cast iron just sucks and is a PAIN IN THE ASS!!! LOL. BTDT! I forgot to add all the issues with pre-heating ect.
And FWIW, the time we did what I dscribed above, we made the diff case out of 4140 rather than iron...
 
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