M210 front drive axle unit - Dana M210 w/ 4.70 or 4.46 gears AND locker (aka Sasquatch front diff) available as standalone upgrade

[mikonrad]

None of the locking diffs have welded ring gears. All non locking diffs have the welded ring gear.

I recall you mentioning this when I noticed the Ford Performance website has a note on the 4.70 ring gear ( M-4209-470 ) page: https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-4209-470

"Factory 7-speed manual transmission equipped Broncos WITHOUT the Sasquatch package feature a welded ring gear/differential and will require differential replacement."

Can you make sense of this statement as to why the 7-speed would make a difference here? I would think the Badlands, seeing it has a M210/M220 with locking diff, should not have a welded ring gear, right?

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[mpeugeot]

I recall you mentioning this when I noticed the Ford Performance website has a note on the 4.70 ring gear ( M-4209-470 ) page: https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-4209-470

"Factory 7-speed manual transmission equipped Broncos WITHOUT the Sasquatch package feature a welded ring gear/differential and will require differential replacement."

Can you make sense of this statement as to why the 7-speed would make a difference here? I would think the Badlands, seeing it has a M210/M220 with locking diff, should not have a welded ring gear, right?

It sounds like anything that has the 4.46 differential may be impacted, but this is rear axle specific. It does not seem like the front axle is subject to this stupidity (at least not automatically). This would really make my f'ing day (which means it won't actually be the case).

 

[mrnoodley]

The Ford parts system shows any rear axles with open differentials as having welded ring gears, all locking diffs as being bolt-on, but I haven't opened enough Bronco axles myself to know for sure. I'm sure we'll know more as we get more of them through the shop.

I can tell you that our manual 2.3 Badlands had bolted ring gears front and rear.

 

[climb2descend]

I know this thread started out as M210 front discussion, but everyone on here seems pretty knowledgeable so I thought I would ask. I'm building a base base. I understand the rear is an m220 32 spline, it appears this is shared with the Jeep JL and JT? I noticed on the Eaton website that they have listed part numbers (don't think its actually out yet tho) for true trac and eaton e-locker. This should work with our M220 right? I guess rear gears would be needed also though as a lot of people have been saying they are welded on the open diff version?

Eaton True Trac
https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/skuPage.917A736.html

Eaton E-Locker
https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/skuPage.14234-1.html

 

[Perfect-Beast-2]

You all are making it really difficult to be happy with my choice. Black Diamond no Sasquatch. No locking diff. Maybe Bronco #2 in a few years is the right answer.

 

[mpeugeot]

I know this thread started out as M210 front discussion, but everyone on here seems pretty knowledgeable so I thought I would ask. I'm building a base base. I understand the rear is an m220 32 spline, it appears this is shared with the Jeep JL and JT? I noticed on the Eaton website that they have listed part numbers (don't think its actually out yet tho) for true trac and eaton e-locker. This should work with our M220 right? I guess rear gears would be needed also though as a lot of people have been saying they are welded on the open diff version?

Eaton True Trac
https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/skuPage.917A736.html

Eaton E-Locker
https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/skuPage.14234-1.html

Well, a lunch box locker would work without having to replace the ring and pinion, that would be the budget way forward.

The other two above would require a new gear set. It has been pretty clearly stated that the open diff M220 has a welded ring gear.

 

[mikonrad]

Just for my own info, I reached out to Ford Performance to get some commentary. Fortunately, we got a fairly clear confirmation on this one, which has essentially been the conclusion here:

TL;DR: Locking Differential = Bolted-on ring gear.

Including @mrnoodley on this reply. This is from Ford Performance:

"7 speed Broncos with the Sasquatch package, have the 4.70 gears with the ring gear bolted to the differential case.

If they have a 7 speed NON-Sasquatch w/locking rear differential (switch on dash) it has the ring gear bolted to the differential case.

If they have a 7 speed NON-Sasquatch w/open differential, it has a welded ring gear to the differential case and would require a differential upgrade. You cannot put a bolt-on ring gear to the welded/open differential case.

Any e-locker differential has a bolt-on ring gear. Any open differential has a welded on ring gear."

Edit:

For anyone interested why I asked, my initial question to Ford Performance was to confirm that a non-Sasquatch Badlands w/ the 4.46 did *not* have a welded ring gear. The quote above was their response to me. I wanted confirmation after reading a note on FP's 4.70 ring & pinion page stating:

"Factory 7-speed manual transmission equipped Broncos WITHOUT the Sasquatch package feature a welded ring gear/differential and will require differential replacement."

This note doesn't outright say it, but this could be interpreted that a Badlands w/ the 7-speed may have a welded ring gear, and by extension, the 4.46 rear in the 10R60 may also have the same build but I wasn't sure... and I couldn't afford to be not-sure on that one considering I'd likely be looking at lower gears in the future.

It sounds like anything that has the 4.46 differential may be impacted, but this is rear axle specific. It does not seem like the front axle is subject to this stupidity (at least not automatically). This would really make my f'ing day (which means it won't actually be the case).

 

[mpeugeot]

Just for my own info, I reached out to Ford Performance to get some commentary. Fortunately, we got a fairly clear confirmation on this one, which has essentially been the conclusion here:

TL;DR: Locking Differential = Bolted-on ring gear.

Including @mrnoodley on this reply. This is from Ford Performance:

"7 speed Broncos with the Sasquatch package, have the 4.70 gears with the ring gear bolted to the differential case.

If they have a 7 speed NON-Sasquatch w/locking rear differential (switch on dash) it has the ring gear bolted to the differential case.

If they have a 7 speed NON-Sasquatch w/open differential, it has a welded ring gear to the differential case and would require a differential upgrade. You cannot put a bolt-on ring gear to the welded/open differential case.

Any e-locker differential has a bolt-on ring gear. Any open differential has a welded on ring gear."

Edit:

For anyone interested why I asked, my initial question to Ford Performance was to confirm that a non-Sasquatch Badlands w/ the 4.46 did *not* have a welded ring gear. The quote above was their response to me. I wanted confirmation after reading a note on FP's 4.70 ring & pinion page stating:

"Factory 7-speed manual transmission equipped Broncos WITHOUT the Sasquatch package feature a welded ring gear/differential and will require differential replacement."

This note doesn't outright say it, but this could be interpreted that a Badlands w/ the 7-speed may have a welded ring gear, and by extension, the 4.46 rear in the 10R60 may also have the same build but I wasn't sure... and I couldn't afford to be not-sure on that one considering I'd likely be looking at lower gears in the future.

I know this applies to the M220. Did they say anything about the M210 or M190??? Especially since they seem to have a 4.7 ring gear planned for the M190, which would suggest a bolt on ring gear.

 

[mrnoodley]

I know this applies to the M220. Did they say anything about the M210 or M190??? Especially since they seem to have a 4.7 ring gear planned for the M190, which would suggest a bolt on ring gear.

I wouldn't worry about the M190.. Even if it has welded ring gear, a new carrier is cheap (under $100). Spicer part# 2010999.

 

[mpeugeot]

I wouldn't worry about the M190.. Even if it has welded ring gear, a new carrier is cheap (under $100). Spicer part# 2010999.

Actually, the primary problem is finding the 4.27 front axle gears that I wanted to keep. I have the truetrac differential.

 

[mrnoodley]

Actually, the primary problem is finding the 4.27 front axle gears that I wanted to keep. I have the truetrac differential.

https://www.nitro-gear.com/Nitro-Dana-30-186mm-4-30-p/m186jl-430-ng.htm

No issue replacing a 4.27 with a 4.30, especially if you don't have the 4A transfer case.

 

[mpeugeot]

https://www.nitro-gear.com/Nitro-Dana-30-186mm-4-30-p/m186jl-430-ng.htm

No issue replacing a 4.27 with a 4.30, especially if you don't have the 4A transfer case.

I have the 4A transfer case, so that's a thing. If I have to replace both gears, so be it, but I will probably go to 4.88's if that happens.

 

[mikonrad]

Got a follow-up reply from Ford Performance:

"The M190 (open) is welded and the M210 (ELD) is bolted."

I know this applies to the M220. Did they say anything about the M210 or M190??? Especially since they seem to have a 4.7 ring gear planned for the M190, which would suggest a bolt on ring gear.

 

[Bronco Shuff]

Yes, the M190 gears are directly compatible with the M186 (Dana 30) that was used in the 07-18 Wranglers and the M190 in the 18+ JLs. They still use the standard 27 spline D30 carrier that hasn't changed in decades. The M210 and M220 are completely new designs that don't share anything with older D44s.

I own an offroad shop in NJ, we regear 5-6 vehicles a week and sell a good number of diff parts to retail customers for DIY installation. Feel free to reach out if you ever have any diff questions, it's what I do every day.

In reading all of this thread, my question is can I add a Ford front locking differential to my 21 OBX Bronco - I have the factory rear locking diff. If I can, what is the best way to make that happen?

 

[mrnoodley]

In reading all of this thread, my question is can I add a Ford front locking differential to my 21 OBX Bronco - I have the factory rear locking diff. If I can, what is the best way to make that happen?

Honestly, there are 2 options.. Putting a locker in your M190 (any 27 spline D30 locker should work like an ARB RD100) or swap the whole front drive unit with an M210 FDU from Ford Performance. the second option would require buying the axleshafts and drive shaft for the M210, but they're all available from Ford Performance. This is more expensive, but you'd have a much stronger front axle in the end.

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