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Mach-E driver's panicked search stops four times on 200-mile trip looking for charging station

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NotApplicable

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this driver is an absolute dipshit

I'm on my third full EV and while the Tesla makes it easy, I wouldn't have trouble going up and down the entire east coast with a non-Tesla
Same thoughts. Tesla makes L3 charging easy though, people forget to factor in the real value of the supercharger network when comparing EV prices. I’ve taken many long road trips without fear or issue, always having many fast charging options along the way; without ever needing to dip low enough on power to actually fear running out. Honestly, though, I’ve never had to seek out a non-Tesla charger for any reason on any trip, so I’m not super familiar with how the other charging network compare. From what I’ve heard, they’ve got a long way to go.

Also, the ability to pull into any campground, lay the memory foam mattress out in the Model Y with the seats down, plug into a TT-30 outlet and sleep with the AC or heat on all night is great.

I still went with the Bronco for my 2nd vehicle though, over the Rivian R1S launch edition which I also had a reservation for. Much of this decision was driven by charging infra in outdoor recreational settings being a long way off and power usage demands being much different for those types of scenarios than road tripping from one city to another on well-paved interstates. I just decided that energy diversity was the right decision for my current garage. I will use my EV in situations that it excels at and use my Bronco in situations that it excels at.

On that note, many many many consumers can and do live with a passenger EV just fine without experiencing any added inconvenience vs. if they owned an ICE vehicle. In many cases the ICE vehicle would represent the choice with higher amount of inconvenience. Different use cases have different priorities, and for some the EV is absolutely the best choice.
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da_jokker

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Jist think about the Wrangler 4xE.... They're going to have to put a charging station every 3 miles on the Rubicon ;)
 

SwankyTiger

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You should just be able to upgrade the service and meter to the house without a need to re-wire everything. Worst case is maybe a new panel as well? Unless, since you are upgrading the service they make you bring everything else in the house up to current code, maybe? I wonder if you could get away with adding a second service to the house or garage, that way you aren't touching the existing?
The issue is the house is now 2 separate living spaces that are no longer connected internally and the panel is in one of them. So that is 2 Furnaces, 1 AC system, 2 sets of washers and dryers, 2 stoves, Water heaters, etc. To have it done right it needs to have each living space on their own separate panel and each of those panels only controlling that area.

Also none of the outlets in the upper living area is grounded except the kitchen and bathrooms since those were remodeled recently.
 

akturbo

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Shouldn't the car route to a charging station? I don't even know what plug our Rav4 Prime has, we just plug in at the house and it goes 48 miles (42 mile factory rating) on pure EV.

This looks like a mess:
Ford Bronco Mach-E driver's panicked search stops four times on 200-mile trip looking for charging station 1627567086548
 

shimmy825

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Also, the ability to pull into any campground, lay the memory foam mattress out in the Model Y with the seats down, plug into a TT-30 outlet and sleep with the AC or heat on all night is great.
You can do this?!?
 

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You can do this?!?
Yes! Can also watch Netflix or Hulu all night on the big center screen in your nice climate-controlled pod :p
 

MorgansRun

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I bet 100 or so years ago there was this same debate: why replace a perfectly good horse that I can feed any time with grain and grass practically anywhere with a mechanized engine that needs fuel. Where are all of these fueling stations going to go? There's no infrastructure for these crazy contraptions. You mean to tell me I'm also going to have to replace tires, plugs and all those other fancy things? Never!


:sneaky:
 

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Sure, how do you think campers do it. Some campgrounds have 50amp service.
Exactly. This is why I keep NEMA 14-50 and TT-30 adapters in the Tesla at all times!
 

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Driver is an idiot. When you take an ev on the road you need to plan on your route. Btw … Tesla owners do the same when they take their cars on a long trip.
Both cars have nav systems that will plan a route for you to take charging into account.

Though the Tesla Supercharger network is everywhere it seems.
 

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dcmdon

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You can do this?!?
Yes, in fact you don't even need to plug in.

Running the AC overnight only draws down less than 10% of battery power.

Jist think about the Wrangler 4xE.... They're going to have to put a charging station every 3 miles on the Rubicon ;)
Uh. No. Its a hybrid. No need to plug in ever. Even for plug in hybrids.

A plug in hybrid is the most versatile choice at this point in time.
At least until
1) you can add 200ish miles of range in 5-10 minutes.
2) there is a charging station at every corner gas station.

Notice I didn't mention range. Modern EVs have pretty much met any reasonable range requirement, provided the charge time is short and infrastructure there.


Lets use the 4xe or a hypothetical Bronco with the F150 Hybrid powertrain.

Charge up the battery at home and you can leave in full electric mode. If its the Jeep its about 25 miles of electric range. When the battery is depleted the vehicle will automatically switch hybrid mode to use its gas engine. But the electric motor/generator will continue to capture energy whenever you coast or brake.

This will provide energy for supplemental power from the electric motor whenever it is necessary.

OR Don't bother charging the battery at home and run the vehicle in hybrid mode all the time. When used this way it will capture energy when coasting and braking and assist the gas engine. You will get better fuel economy than a non-hybrid and more power.

There really is no downside to a hybrid other than weight and complexity. Which could be a big deal depending on how long you keep your car.

Jeep offers a 10 yr 100k mile warranty on the electric drivetrain.

And, when you figure in the $7500 federal credit and state credits up to $2500, these hybrids are currently "free". The Jeep costs less than an equivalent model with the base gas engine.

That's why its the best selling plug in hybrid in the US right now.
 
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AZshot

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I haven't done more than a cursory review of modern electric cars. But the problems of 20 years ago are still there. Low range, nowhere to charge, expense (of buying AND charging). It's basically going to cost an owner a lot more than a petrol engine.

Oh, and doesn't it take 30-90 min to charge one back to at least 60%? That would be fun on a trip, stopping every 250 miles and sitting there for an hour and a half. And scurrying around like rats trying to find an open charging station? Short trips? You go to the store around here, it's 20 miles, or a 40 mile round trip. What if you chance your charge level, get to the store, and don't think you can make it home? Again, scurry around looking for a charging station, drum your fingers for 18 minutes, just so you can drive back home. I just don't see the attraction.

Read this https://insideevs.com/news/503880/mustang-mach-e-dc-fast-charge-test/
 

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if you’re talking about Tesla you’re wrong. They opened their patents years ago and the other manufacturers decided to ignore them. Even so later this year they are opening their super chargers to other manufacturers that didn’t get on the obvious leading standard.
Ehh, the language of Tesla's patent use terms is pretty sketchy and opens up anyone who does to Tesla using any of their IP as well. So it doesn't surprise me that major auto manufacturers weren't willing to open up their entire IP to Tesla for Tesla patents vs buying technology off other firms to get their battery/EV tech up to speed.
 

heelyeah

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What folks don’t realize is the mileage claims made by the EV makers are “ best case scenarios”. EV get longer range when driving in stop and go environments such as cities. Highway operation reduces mileage because brakes, that aid in regeneration of the batteries aren’t used as much. Ambient temperatures also decrease range. EV are great for urban use, that is if you live in a home in the city that can accept a charging system that won’t be stolen or vandalized by the urban parasites.
To be fair, Ford's 270-mile estimate on my AWD extended range Mach E is pretty accurate, and sometimes even a bit conservative. I've heard Tesla's advertised estimates are often "best case scenario" but I have no direct experience with that and can't comment on it.

I've put about 5,000 miles on my MME, most of it highway driving 75-80mph, and I'm getting 3.1+ miles per KWH. My MME has a 88kwh battery, and 3.1*88= 272.8, so Ford's estimate is pretty solid. If I take backroads and keep it 55-60 mph, I can easily achieve 300+ miles range.
 

Razorbak86

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Yes, in fact you don't even need to plug in.

Running the AC overnight only draws down less than 10% of battery power.



Uh. No. Its a hybrid. No need to plug in ever. Even for plug in hybrids.

A plug in hybrid is the most versatile choice at this point in time.
At least until
1) you can add 200ish miles of range in 5-10 minutes.
2) there is a charging station at every corner gas station.

Notice I didn't mention range. Modern EVs have pretty much met any reasonable range requirement, provided the charge time is short and infrastructure there.


Lets use the 4xe or a hypothetical Bronco with the F150 Hybrid powertrain.

Charge up the battery at home and you can leave in full electric mode. If its the Jeep its about 25 miles of electric range. When the battery is depleted the vehicle will automatically switch hybrid mode to use its gas engine. But the electric motor/generator will continue to capture energy whenever you coast or brake.

This will provide energy for supplemental power from the electric motor whenever it is necessary.

OR Don't bother charging the battery at home and run the vehicle in hybrid mode all the time. When used this way it will capture energy when coasting and braking and assist the gas engine. You will get better fuel economy than a non-hybrid and more power.

There really is no downside to a hybrid other than weight and complexity. Which could be a big deal depending on how long you keep your car.

Jeep offers a 10 yr 100k mile warranty on the electric drivetrain.

And, when you figure in the $7500 federal credit and state credits up to $2500, these hybrids are currently "free". The Jeep costs less than an equivalent model with the base gas engine.

That's why its the best selling plug in hybrid in the US right now.
Transcript excerpt from yesterday’s Ford earnings teleconference…

Operator: Our next question comes from the line of Adam Jonas, Morgan Stanley.

Adam Jonas: Great call so far. And Jim, I have to say I did a Control F for the word hybrid in the deck and in the press release and I don't see it, man, no hybrid. It's a beautiful thing. So good.

James Farley: (Inaudible).

Adam Jonas: Yes, but they're dead. They're gone. All right. My question on EVs, right, your BEVs, when do you think that they can be a positive profit on a fully costed basis, not contribution? Like when can they be profitable? And do you think it's 2022 is still too early for that? My first, and I have a follow-up.

John Lawler: Yes. Thanks, Adam. Actually, Mach-E is profitable, contribution margin positive and profitable on the bottom line today. So we've seen strong demand for that, yes. So I think when we look at it, over time, as we've talked about at Capital Markets Day and we've talked about with you, we've got to ride that technology curve down.

We've got to get to the $80 per kilowatt-hour for the battery pack before the end of the decade. We've got to scale the BEV content. We have commonality in the top hats and other components that will help us as well. And then, of course, we need to build on our services and such to really improve the profitability of the BEVs as we move forward. But I can tell you that Mach-E is profitable today.

Adam Jonas: Well, that's incredible at a $50,000 type run rate for that to be correct. Okay. My follow-on question, Jim, is about always-on in the order bank. I mean, I think this is really huge. Just really interesting, when you combine the order bank system with always-on, where you go kind of can engage the consumer directly for services and F&I and insurance in the OTA.

But I am talking to some dealers that are freaking out, that some Darwinian forces could be at work where you're not, let's say, directly infringing on the franchise laws but you're dancing close as you probably should, given all the technological changes over the past 70 or 80 years since these laws came.

So what's your message to them? What if order book goes to 80% of your units or the majority and then the dealers are just the delivery centers, and then you're going direct on all the other wonderful services? What's the message to the dealers?

James Farley: Great question. Well, we're going to have a couple of different population of dealers. We're going to have our professional dealers, and the answer is a little different for them versus our retail dealers.

We'll have our rural dealers and the answer is a little bit different for them than the suburban urban dealers. The -- I would say the message we're giving to our team, our dealers is, look, we're going to have to work really carefully together so -- because the customers are going to have a lot of questions on Ford BlueCruise, for example.

So we want to make sure the dealers are very knowledgeable about these new OTA features that are really meaningful in the use of the customer's life. That's one.

The second 1 is service, service, service, service. That is the most important thing for us is wiring a closed loop between the vehicle, the condition of the vehicle, the service capacity of the dealers and the customer is going to be the most important valet we're going to have to play together with the dealers.

This is especially true for Ford Pro. And in fact, today, we already have 160 remote trucks doing service for our commercial customers at their business, warranty work. That's a good example of the evolution of the business model where they're taking their service department from a fixed hub and going on the road with their service capacity.

And those trucks have to be cooked into the vehicle data and the prognostics, our parts legacy system to order parts and the dealers on a dispatch system. That has to be a closed loop.

So all I would say to you is the orchestration and our benefit, our chance to win just like maybe targets a chance to win versus the online retailers is that in-person service, especially in professional customers.
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