Mike Levine saying outright he does NOT care about Granger/Chapman/SAC

cowman

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show me the small print…
the fact reservations were to be filled prior to stock is the main point of contention.
Can you show me where the dealers are getting stock units..... I think you may be seeing units that were refused by reservations.... for several reason... the dealer is not going to send them back.... by the way.... mine is being built today....
 

hemiblas

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Can you show me where the dealers are getting stock units..... I think you may be seeing units that were refused by reservations.... for several reason... the dealer is not going to send them back.... by the way.... mine is being built today....
Dealers have already gotton stock units ahead of reservations. 4 door soft tops....Trying to get a dealer to confess wont happen.
 

Wanted33

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Ford told me what to do?
Do you want to know what Ford told me?

Ford sent me dozens of emails saying "some" Bronco orders may not ship until 2022.

Ford Customer Service just this week insisted that ALL the reservations would be filled in 2022 and that "2021 orders that didn't get filled in 2021 would be build first."

Ford has published a new allocation formula that is drastically different than 2021's formula and contradicts what customer service is saying.

So what exactly has Ford told me?

Hey, Here's a thought...
What would happen if a ton of the day-one and day-two Granger orders jump in front of you at your local dealer?

Would it be fair for Ford to let a bunch of Granger customers to jump in line? Because that is exactly what they are telling us to do.

Do you think anyone who has an honest local dealer will share that information and risk having 400 day-two reservation holders jump in front of them?

Granger and Chapman Horsham have a higher percent of early reservation holders because the same people who stayed up all night getting a reservation are some of the same ones who searched the whole country looking for honest dealers willing to give final out-the-door prices in writing at order time.

So for everyone telling Granger people that they should just switch, be careful what you wish for. Maybe none of them will jump in line in front of you at your particular dealership... but that is a real possibility.
OK kiddies, we can close this thread now. Tricia just hit it out of the park with this truth, nuff said. Thanks Tricia, but for some reason I just don't think some of these self righteous trolls that just have to say "I told you so" will ever quit.
 
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I'm so beyond pissed off at this whole thing. I work in public policy but I know next to nothing about anti-trust laws. Still, I think this reeks of anti-competitive behavior so I spent some time reading up on anti-trust violations. Based on my research, it appears the only way this could warrant action from the FTC is if there is evidence that large dealers "collectively" pressured Ford to change the allocation system.

A few interesting nuggets from the FTC website:

Under "Manufacturer-imposed Requirements" they actually point to a 1998 case where, "a group of car dealers threatened not to sell one make of cars unless the manufacturer allocated new cars on the basis of sales made to customers in each dealer's territory. The FTC found the dealers' actions unreasonable and designed primarily to stop one dealer from selling at low "no haggle" prices and via the Internet to customers all over the country." (Sound familiar?)

The FTC stated the following in their press release about the case: "The goal of this boycott was to limit sales by car dealers that market cars on the Internet and for low prices," said William J. Baer, Director of the Bureau of Competition. "Consumers need to have access to this new and innovative form of marketing. There was no justification for this concerted activity. The agreement to boycott was illegal."

This sounds all too familiar. However, there is a catch that makes the 1998 case a clear violation of anti-trust laws...the other dealers blatantly acted as a collective in their boycott. My guess is that dealers are all too aware of this now and are careful not to do it again. It is described as an example on the FTC website, so not obscure at all.

Also relevant from the same FTC webpage, "Many private antitrust cases have involved a manufacturer cutting off a discounting dealer. Often there is evidence that the manufacturer received complaints from competing dealers before terminating the discounter. This evidence alone is not enough to show a violation; the manufacturer is entitled to try to keep its dealers happy with their affiliation. Legal issues may arise if it appears that the dealers have agreed to threaten a boycott or collectively pressure the manufacturer to take action."

Bottomline: There is a possibility that this was anti-trust in nature if there was any collective action from large dealers which led to the allocation system change. But that is the catch, did the large dealers act collectively?

I don't think we as the consumers have to prove this and the rest of the situation may be enough to convince the FTC to investigate. But based on my experience with government complaints, to convince the agency to investigate there needs to be either a certain level of proof shown up front or enough people complaining.

I think you might get somewhere if a lot of consumers of small dealerships email the anti-trust email to explain the situation. Here's how one would do that: https://www.ftc.gov/faq/competition/report-antitrust-violation

My hopes for success on this are low, because I assume the large dealers would know better than to work collectively in such a way that someone could prove it. But in my idealist head we as consumers should not have to prove fault to get an investigation started.

(Full disclosure: I am pissed on principle not because I myself was harmed. I am a Granger customer but my Bronco has "shipped" with expected deliver in the next few weeks. So I feel confident that I will get a 2021. )
 

Wanted33

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Call me naïve if you want, but when I made my reservation, I thought nothing of 'allocations'. I didn't know or care how many reservations Granger Ford had when I made my October 2020 res. Per Ford at the time, a reservation was a reservation, regardless of what dealer it was placed at, and it would be filled in the order in which they were received. To me, it wasn't a consideration that big dealer A may only get 40 Broncos and small dealer B get 100, because that is still 140 sold Broncos in the eyes of Ford. Its competition, its capitalism! Small dealer got more Bronco reservations and orders than you did? Too bad, up your game!

I'm holding out hope that Ford truly doesn't intend on hanging us 2%ers out to dry for the next 3 years and works diligently to fulfill ALL 2020 reservations converted to orders in 2022.
Yes sir Howard, I agree. Either way I just want Ford to send out a statement on exactly what is going to happen. At this point I really don't care, just want to know for sure. I'm getting ready to buy a set of wheels/tires for my Jeep. I would hate to buy them, and Ford pop up and say "April Fools, we were just kidding.........we'll get 'em all out by the end of '22. :)
 

Bronc-O

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OK kiddies, we can close this thread now. Tricia just hit it out of the park with this truth, nuff said. Thanks Tricia, but for some reason I just don't think some of these self righteous trolls that just have to say "I told you so" will ever quit.
She has changed her story so many times, I'm beginning to wonder if she's a dealer? :unsure:
 

cowman

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Dealers have already gotton stock units ahead of reservations. 4 door soft tops....Trying to get a dealer to confess wont happen.
Show me proof....
 

Wanted33

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Atomicdog

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She has changed her story so many times, I'm beginning to wonder if she's a dealer? :unsure:
If this forum had any spam limits you think they would have kicked in by now.
What percentage of this thread are bronc-o posts?
 

flip

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I've had a few questions regarding our allocation, here's my position. First, we don't have any idea what our '22 numbers are going to be and can only assume it will be about double of '21. I don't particularly like the methodology and believe the only people it really hurts are the end users.

While we don't know if our allocation is going to be more or less, we've decided to not transfer in new reservations/orders until our original group has been satisfied. Not that we don't want the business, we don't feel it's fair or morally right, to bump folks that've had orders in and stayed the course with us to this point. If I double my '21 number, we'll likely still be short of filling the hold over '21's. I hope I'm wrong but a big part of this still hinges on Ford's ability to build units AND commodity constraints ease. This may not be the best business sense but it is our plan for now.

What Ford did was create another artificial crisis. If it's time stamp and buildability, then the old formula should've been kept. They can't change it, cause musical reservations and expect customers at other facilities to not get bumped leading to breakdown of the order time model. If the idea is to get orders back into markets and zones where customers live, fine, say that but be prepared to defend the reasoning and blowback from end users about choice. Again, none of this matters if they still can't build what they couldn't before.
 
OP
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we've decided to not transfer in new reservations/orders until our original group has been satisfied. Not that we don't want the business, we don't feel it's fair or morally right, to bump folks that've had orders in and stayed the course with us
This is the piece that pisses me off about the told-ya-so's in this thread. They don't grasp the basic concept that any dealer with any scruples doesn't even WANT transfer reservations anymore. You know what dealers are thrilled to have me transfer my res? the one who are unwilling to commit to pricing. Coincidence? I think not.
 

thatspecialbeat

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Good news. Levine will now help us with dealers who charge ADM. It appears having a female Twitter pic will get you right into his DMs.
Screenshot_20211018-121247~2.png
 

flip

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This is the piece that pisses me off about the told-ya-so's in this thread. They don't grasp the basic concept that any dealer with any scruples doesn't even WANT transfer reservations anymore. You know what dealers are thrilled to have me transfer my res? the one who are unwilling to commit to pricing. Coincidence? I think not.
There isn't going to be any orderly process to match orders with allocation even taking pricing and buildability out of the equation. It's just going to create more chaos since Ford can't say for sure what they can and can't build. Would be one thing if they said I could get 20 WT, 10 BL and 10 OB in any configuration or 50 B, BD or BB in any configuration. At least my current customers would know where they stand and we might be able to do some transfers or horse trading with other dealers. Just more uncertainty and unknowns.
 
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