Mike Levine saying outright he does NOT care about Granger/Chapman/SAC

[Atomicdog]

Lucas Ford, Haldeman Ford (both locations), Miller Ford, Lawrenceville Ford, and Medford Ford all wanted nothing to do with discussions relating to putting pricing in writing, especially not at MSRP.
I've been trying to avoid naming names, but you want to call me out, here we are.

Miller Ford was the closest to being helpful, and said MSRP but wouldn't write it down. Holman Ford was my original reservation dealer, but while they claimed to be at MSRP, they failed to disclose that they don't consider (overpriced) accessory packages ADM, and I didn't get them to sign anything because this was before I knew better. Once I found that out I started my search for a new dealer, which lead me to calling 6 others.

After much disgust I joined B6G and found chapman. They've treated me with respect, unlike any of the other places.

I didn't read every post since but I'm sure he apologized about his post that called you a liar while he misrepresented what you said.

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[BuckyBronco]

Dude, putting in writing that "all resevraions will be built before dealer stock"...and then sending thousands of dealer stock units out to preferrred dealers while reservation holders sit with nothing is exactly "bending over their reservation holders". They promised one thing to get reservations...and are doing another.

"Promise" is an incredible strong word to use...and as we all should know by now, this all has been a moving target for it's entirety.

Ford is going to sell ever Bronco that rolls off the assembly line with zero effort for the foreseeable future. They shouldn't be looking to appease a couple of small dealers at the expense of those that earn them money across all vehicle lines, and no one should be expecting them to. That's just reality, and you can think of it as "bending over their reservation holders", but it's a reality that isn't likely to change.

 

[rugbysecondrow]

The big elephant in the room is the internet and social media. Technically, Granger isn't supposed to be targetting outside its sales area, and Granger would never break this rule by placing ads in California newspapers for example. Social media is much more grey because people can find and share Granger's deal and grant the dealer a national audience.

Big dealers in major metro areas have a lot to lose with this type of dealer capturing sales from what was once a captive market. Unfortunately, they also have the law on their side to pressure Ford into keeping them a small town dealership.

This. Poaching, targeting, marketing...whatever word you want to use, it is clear that some dealerships were fishing in other people's ponds, on purpose.

 

[Bronco23]

If it really is just 2% of all orders then why would Ford take the black eye? This is about precedent and they chose dealer happiness over competition. This is why a class action lawsuit is inevitable.

I dont know why people keep saying it is 2%. It's not and he said so in his tweet. It is 2% of orders placed at a smaller dealership offering a deal. Nobody knows that number, Unless you know what Ford considers a small dealership and add all those oprders up, it is a mystery

I find it hilarious the sheer amount of people trying to claim dealers would commit to pricing.

This was what the first dealer told me…

After I read they didn’t know what pricing would be and wanted to add $1,600 in add-ons I was out. I switched to Granger in mid-August before the other 1,000+ people followed me, they only had like 100-150 when I switched. How was I to know my experience would be the same as everyone else and everyone else would follow suit? Now everyone is being punished simply for looking out for themselves. The apologists on this website are unreal.

My dealer commited to pricing, and told me they were offering MSRP and no ADM. I have a signed quote sheet I signed and my dealer signed upon entering my Order. When I re-enter my '22 order tomorrow, I will have another one.

Luckily this dealer is 10 Minutes from my house, I called on others and they were also offering MSRP but further away.

 

[andrusoid]

Evidently, your Bronco will be built before allocations, if I'm reading this right.

 

[2031Bronco]

Can someone bring me up to speed on what's been happening with Granger Ford? I haven't heard about them or anything about reservations/allocations until stumbling on this thread.

 

[MNbronco]

"Promise" is an incredible strong word to use...and as we all should know by now, this all has been a moving target for it's entirety.

Ford is going to sell ever Bronco that rolls off the assembly line with zero effort for the foreseeable future. They shouldn't be looking to appease a couple of small dealers at the expense of those that earn them money across all vehicle lines, and no one should be expecting them to. That's just reality, and you can think of it as "bending over their reservation holders", but it's a reality that isn't likely to change.

It is not about appeasing the small dealers, it is about honoring the time stamp as initially promised. If I am a day 2 reservation I would not expect to be ahead of a day 1 with similar build. Not sure what is so hard to understand, also building stock units so bigger dealers can mark up before reservations have been fulfilled is beyond comprehension.

 

[Zach@Granger]

Just asked my local dealer who previously wanted to charge ADM about their allocations for next year and they do not have an answer yet. This allocation issue is going to go beyond Granger/SAC/Chapman

You place a retail order for a Wrangler and you have a VIN in 2-3 days.

 

[AZ_Liberty]

The fact is, any dealer (large or small) can do what Granger does. Their "deal" isn't isolated to Bronco. It's their business model on all mass produced vehicles.

If I ordered a Bronco from Granger, I would have saved about $1400 off MSRP ($1000 off invoice and invoice is about $400 less than MSRP). I got an F-150 for $8700 off MSRP in April from my local dealer.

Granger's "deal" isn't earth shattering. The fact that they are transparent, and actually communicate with their customers is far, far, more important to a lot of folks.

By the time you add in shipping, some of Granger's customers will be effectively paying more than MSRP. But those customers chose to do so because of service and transparency. Zach has been completely up front with everyone this entire time. Just trying to talk with my local folks is... maddening.

 

[PD63]

You place a retail order for a Wrangler and you have a VIN in 2-3 days.

That is more than likely my plan at this point. I placed a Bronco order July of this year in hopes of it coming in around July of 2022, however those dreams are quickly fading. I will more than likely be placing a Rubicon order next spring.

 

[vrtical]

You place a retail order for a Wrangler and you have a VIN in 2-3 days.

Ford missed that part on upstaging Jeep market share.

 

[broncoskip]

@Ford Motor Company

Tell me who is taking advantage? A dealership who is breaking even on 400 Broncos or a dealership who is making an extra $10k - $20k on 25 Broncos.

The dealership that sells everything else at Invoice pricing to become a volume dealer, only to charge full MSRP on the Bronco? Are they taking advantage of allocation to screw over buyers?

Or a few little dealerships who pulled in a small percentage of the total production of Bronco who's efforts on this forum calmed the storm through Covid and MIC top, who helped thousands of people fight against unfair sales practices by being an option on the table. A few dealerships who helped fill the gaps in information for those of us who wanted to know.

Allocation is rewarding the wrong dealerships.

Less than 3000 broncos are in question, you said it yourself, a small percentage. Though, not nearly the 2% you mentioned. Building the broncos in order of reservation will not greatly diminish any one dealerships allocation even with the few that pulled in such big numbers.

This problem is easily corrected with out attacking the fanbase.

It is clear to us fans that we are just collateral damage of a power struggle that is between dealerships and the manufacturer. I've read the state laws, there is nothing stopping Ford from filling the orders of three small dealerships unless doing so denies other dealerships from getting their orders filled. If you are filling orders by reservation timestamp, there is no way a judge would take the dealerships side in a lawsuit. Not when it's such a small drop in the bucket

I didn't look it up but I imagine its around 3000 orders in question, between all of the dealerships in question. Ford could easily build 150,000 units in 2022. So Levine is right, 3000 of 150,000 is 2%. It would only take 1 allocation from every dealer in the USA to fill those orders. and I doubt it would end up being that many.

However, ford could also easily produce 153,000 Broncos in 2022 and resolve the issue without ruffling as many feathers by removing allocations. That's why this is all a matter of politics and not an actual supply and demand issue.

 

[dingle87]

If I ordered a Bronco from Granger, I would have saved about $1400 off MSRP ($1000 off invoice and invoice is about $400 less than MSRP). I got an F-150 for $8700 off MSRP in April from my local dealer.

Granger's "deal" isn't earth shattering. The fact that they are transparent, and actually communicate with their customers is far, far, more important to a lot of folks.

By the time you add in shipping, some of Granger's customers will be effectively paying more than MSRP. But those customers chose to do so because of service and transparency. Zach has been completely up front with everyone this entire time. Just trying to talk with my local folks is... maddening.

Yes, I agree. You've never seen me say they are the lowest deal around or it is an earth shattering deal on any or all vehicles for a reason. They are the most transparent dealer I've found. That's why it's refreshing, not that they will beat or match the best deal out there. It isn't always about $$$.

 

[Dads_bronze_bronco]

Bronco is a resource-constrained vehicle at this time, like GT350R is a volume-constrained vehicle. Once MAP fires up at 100% capacity (in 2023?) then this whole thing is a non-issue.

GT350R's were plenty constrained at the floorplan level by dealership allocations (due to, among other things, volume) as to who could possibly get one.

But if you really want to ground-pound a point home, lets say Granger submits customer orders for 3,000 Sports, or 3,000 of any single model. Are they getting them all? No. They will have to play with their allocation set by volume.

Granger customers are and continue to be in line, what's the issue? Their line just happens to be the one at the very far side of the stadium that a TON of people think is the secret fast line of awesomeness, but only has 2 employees taking tickets so it ends up being a slow line.

FWIW, this entire process from reservation to delivery is following exactly how Ranger pre-orders went, except the volume is higher and it's not possible to be at 100% manufacturing capacity. Customers had their reservation number in line and also had to wait until dealerships got their allocations. It's not simply a customer ID centric system and never has been.

Granger chose to set themselves out as the discount player and got exactly what it wanted. Everyone wins, eventually, regardless if you like the argument or not.

Secret fast lane of awesomeness with discount ticket, food a drink pricing …

 

[thatspecialbeat]

FWIW, this entire process from reservation to delivery is following exactly how Ranger pre-orders went

FWIW

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