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Mike Levine saying outright he does NOT care about Granger/Chapman/SAC

Rob_Broncowski

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I just wanted to mention a few other relevant details which led up to this current predicament. Last fall many people like myself were struggling to get dealers to commit to MSRP. At the same time Ford set a deadline to switch dealers. The lack of communication and information about this caused countless panic threads on this board.

This was one of the primary reasons that I created a second reservation. I wanted to have an alternative option if my original dealer tried to stick me with an ADM. I chose Granger (Oct. special) because I found their transparency refreshing and I was fine waiting until late 22 to save some money. The other reason I chose Granger was because it really bothered me that Ford changed the allocation seemingly in response to their original deal.

Now here were are for round two of the allocation changes further screwing over these small dealers with who knows how many phantom orders still on the book. Fortunately my current vehicle has a few more years left otherwise I would have pulled the plug on this "reservation experiment" a long time ago.
 

dingle87

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I just wanted to mention a few other relevant details which led up to this current predicament. Last fall many people like myself were struggling to get dealers to commit to MSRP. At the same time Ford set a deadline to switch dealers. The lack of communication and information about this caused countless panic threads on this board.

This was one of the primary reasons that I created a second reservation. I wanted to have an alternative option if my original dealer tried to stick me with an ADM. I chose Granger (Oct. special) because I found their transparency refreshing and I was fine waiting until late 22 to save some money. The other reason I chose Granger was because it really bothered me that Ford changed the allocation seemingly in response to their original deal.

Now here were are for round two of the allocation changes further screwing over these small dealers with who knows how many phantom orders still on the book. Fortunately my current vehicle has a few more years left otherwise I would have pulled the plug on this "reservation experiment" a long time ago.
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tyrobronco

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The saddest part is Ford is giving themselves a black eye by trying to punish 2-3 dealerships for following Ford's rules.

Ford needed to stay out of the mud in this and just stick to their original plan. The orders would have sorted themselves out.

Maybe 40% (being generous) of the first 3000 filled-orders would have been to 2 dealerships - but the customers would not have had a problem with that - because we all knew the rules.

People from all over the country have orders there so the Bronco would have been showing up, in the hands of enthusiasts, in a lot of different states.

Plus, all the other customers that DIDN'T go the above route would be getting theirs, too - just adding to the excitement. I stayed local, in Florida, but my dealership is small (initial allocation was 18, cut to like 6).

But, instead, Ford agreed that Galpin Ford in Southern California and Suburban Ford in Michigan needed more Broncos in one area than they had orders for - and needed other customers to be unhappy as they got sent to the back of a line and even others getting upcharged for the privilege of buying something they were selling.

It was an interesting decision process - because it isn't like the mega-dealers weren't getting Broncos or orders - they just wanted more than a small dealer was getting.

Ford messed up and there are a lot of people who have had their opinions changed about the company - and not in a good way.

But I'm glad Ford is doubling down on their misstep. Nothing says quality like refusing to acknowledge and learn from a mistake...

I am excited about the Bronco but it will be the last Ford I ever buy - and when my children (20 & 17) talk to me about buying a new car, I definitely won't recommend Ford and would suggest they cross-shop other brands.

Ford isn't trustworthy. Glad I don't own any of their stock (almost did during the height of the pandemic)...
 

long_road

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I'm trying to just kind of zen out about Levine's comments and the allocation nonsense. At first, I was mad... and even considered just cancelling my reservation, not giving Ford my money, and buying a Jeep instead. But then I really thought about it from "both sides" and kind of chilled out a bit. Plus, it's not like any other major auto manufacturer wouldn't do the exact same thing Ford is doing if they were in the same position. Huge demand, low supply of an outrageously popular new vehicle... of course you'd cater to your big dealers and of course those big dealers will gouge foolish customers for every penny they can get out of them.

I'm in the Charlotte, NC area. When the reservations first started, I called around to a handful of local dealers and got the same no-commitment response on pricing. One did say they'd "likely" honor MSRP, but wouldn't sign off on it. Then I saw the posts on this forum about the under invoice pricing and jumped on board. In a place like Charlotte, people are stupid and pay too much for everything. Heck, in the uppity neighborhoods they're proud to tell people they paid too much for stuff. It makes no sense to me. I bet there's some jerk out there with an Outer Banks bragging about how he paid $20k over MSRP for it. Hard to fault dealers for making maximum profit when you have idiot consumers out there dropping down $60k, $70k, $80k for a $40k vehicle.

But I'm not that consumer. I'm a guy who's willing to wait it out and shop around to find a good deal. The trade-off to that is... I won't be getting mine for a while.

I applaud the dealerships like Stephens (who I'm with) for offering a deal on a vehicle they well knew they could have sold for more. Ford's shenanigans are what they are. If I make the cut for a 2022, great. If I'm waiting around another year, fine. I guess I'll get a 2023 then. Who knows.

What I do know is, from now on... when I plan to buy a new car, I won't just browse around near me and go play the shady dealer games at whatever dealership in my area has a vehicle on their lot that I want. I'll call up a place like Stephens and say, "Hey, this is what I'm looking for. Can you get me one?"

I'm so willing to take a road trip out of my area to spend my money at an honest dealership that communicates well and is good for their word. I may never get a Bronco from them, but I'll sure do my best to give Stephens my future business for whatever I end up buying.
 

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OmahaKevin

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Capitalism is great, Ford can choose to tilt the playing field any way they can to maximize profits or to be spiteful to a subset of their dealers.
Unfortunately what works the best financially is not always the best way to build a "Lifestyle Brand" which Ford has stated is their goal. They don't have a clear concept of what they want and it shows in this disaster of a launch.
Ford gets the same money no matter what the dealer sells it for. Maximizing profits would be keeping the most enthusiastic customers happy so they become good brand ambassadors.
 

Heath Aggen

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I remember in 2003, I special ordered the coveted 1st gen Rubicon (still have it). I looked all over and could not find what I wanted and dealers were charging 10k over sticker if you found one at all. So I started calling around and finally talked to a knowledgeable sales person at a small east Texas dealer. He suggested just ordering one, he would sell it to me at 500 over his cost. I asked why he would do that, he said a sold order for a Rubicon gave him an allocation for 2 more Rubicons he could put on his lot and he was happy for the buisness. 4 months later on Christmas eve, it showed up and was in my garage for Christmas morning. Those were the days.
So after reading thru this exhausting post I am trying to understand the issue, because never in the history of car sales ,as far as I know, has a sold order impacted a dealers allocation for stock units. Am I to understand that because I placed my order with a small dealer that may be allocated 50 broncos, my order takes away from that total, so if I am number 51 of their orders, I won't get mine, is that right? That makes no sense for Ford or anyone. It also means that a small dealer just won't process orders that may take away from their allocation. It also seems like levines comment was very snide because there is no way 98% orders were processed thru large dealers, but anyway.
I am sticking with my very knowledgeable and solid small town dealer with my highly constrained Wildtrack order because all I got is time. Hopefully it all works out, in the mean time the 04 Rubicon is still rocking the streets and trails occasionally, I must admit I don't offroad like I once did, but still love the vehicles. Cheers
Ford Bronco Mike Levine saying outright he does NOT care about Granger/Chapman/SAC 20210820_162926
Ford Bronco Mike Levine saying outright he does NOT care about Granger/Chapman/SAC 20210820_162942
 

Atomicdog

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Ford gets the same money no matter what the dealer sells it for. Maximizing profits would be keeping the most enthusiastic customers happy so they become good brand ambassadors.
Short term, yes. Keeping their mega dealers happy and not selling/switching to Ford competitors makes them more money long term.
 

OmahaKevin

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The big elephant in the room is the internet and social media. Technically, Granger isn't supposed to be targetting outside its sales area, and Granger would never break this rule by placing ads in California newspapers for example. Social media is much more grey because people can find and share Granger's deal and grant the dealer a national audience.

Big dealers in major metro areas have a lot to lose with this type of dealer capturing sales from what was once a captive market. Unfortunately, they also have the law on their side to pressure Ford into keeping them a small town dealership.
Dealers have been selling out of state for years. One in small town Nebraska has bragged for 30+ years about selling to all fifty states. They're now the #10 Ford dealer in the country while being in a town of 7,700.
 

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gimlithepirate

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If I ordered a Bronco from Granger, I would have saved about $1400 off MSRP ($1000 off invoice and invoice is about $400 less than MSRP). I got an F-150 for $8700 off MSRP in April from my local dealer.

Granger's "deal" isn't earth shattering. The fact that they are transparent, and actually communicate with their customers is far, far, more important to a lot of folks.

By the time you add in shipping, some of Granger's customers will be effectively paying more than MSRP. But those customers chose to do so because of service and transparency. Zach has been completely up front with everyone this entire time. Just trying to talk with my local folks is... maddening.
Its a pretty great deal in the offroader world, as Tacoma/4Runner/Jeep/etc. don't tend to see these kind of discounts very often. Also majorly depends on your market. In NM, Grangers deal is insane, but our jeep dealers typically offer a max of 500 off MSRP. Most people I know drive to CO Springs to get a decent deal on an offroad oriented vehicle.

But yes, the transparency was as much the attraction as the price. Especially the strightforward no bullshit style of pricing.
 

Sean D

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it's something that is made up to distract...just like the constant harping on parts availability. The bottom line is that allocating based 100% on number of reservations at a dealer violates no law, anywhere in the US.
@dweskamp, another BS strawman tactic to divert from the fact that Ford is in no way prepared to deliver on its promises to make and deliver 190K Broncos.
 

mpeugeot

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Yes they did give other guidelines. They said ALL reservations would be built before dealer stock orders.
I kind of remember this being the words spoken/written more than once, or is my memory faulty?

However, if a dealer like Granger outsold their allocation, then they should have let their customers know, instead of banking hundreds of reservations they knew they could never fill.
You don't think that I knew that I was getting in the back of a very long line? You don't think that Granger didn't disclose that, there is proof of it on many threads in here.

I read they have 800+ reservations. That means even if they got double the allocation for 2022, there are STILL hundreds pushed out to 2023 or longer. I would never place an order with them if I was told this in advance. That begs the question, did they tell people that?
Yes, I was #956, now number #955 I guess with at least one transfer, who knows, maybe enough people will jump ship from Granger and I'll get my Bronco from them, but I am not going elsewhere.

So while you might never place an order with them, I did, does that make me the bad guy now?

Is it wrong if I am willing to wait on a dealer with integrity that values my business?

Granger has been forthcoming, open, and honest in every interaction across multiple staff members. That's way better than the experiences I have had with other dealers.

I think the title of this thread is a not a depiction of what he said and should be changed.
That's nice, but unfortunately, you didn't have it your way... Burger King is down the street.

The title does accurately characterize and paraphrase how it appears that he feels about the situation. His behaviors and messaging are leaving everyone with that impression despite his attempt to obfuscate the way he feels about it. Stop trying to change reality, Mike Levine sucks at his job.
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