Miller Hill / Mineral Basin UT trip in my Badlands

[ChrisD]

@ChrisD
Thanks for sharing. I live in Utah as well. It's been many years since I played in Mineral Basin. Last time I tried, it was a UTV zoo so we aborted the trip. Since then I've stayed away.

Your experience has me seriously doubting that the 6G Bronco is suited for me. If a Badlands hits the underside that much in Mineral Basin, how will it ever survive the harder trails around Moab? I was hoping to get away with minimal lift and 33s on my 2D BD (assuming it survives Dirt Mountain). Sounds like I had better plan on a couple inches of lift and additional skid plates. 35s would help as well, but they make no sense for a vehicle that will spend most of its time driving around town.

Good thing my Jeep XJ will be staying in the family! I have yet to hit anything on the underside other than the diffs and front LCA axle mounts.

The train was rated a 6. Here's how Red Rock 4 Wheelers describe a 6:

Trails are difficult with considerable erosion damage, loose rocks, dirt, and slickrock. Water in excess of 12” is possible with mud conditions. Steps not exceeding 36”. 4WD, 35" plus tires and two traction adding devices (lockers, limited slips) are required. A winch would be a plus. Enhanced suspension travel and good ground clearance are a required. Excellent driving skills are recommended.

Not sure that I would describe all of the trails in Moab as harder. There are some harder trails there, but for instance, Hell's Revenge is a 6. Steel Bender is a 6.

Mine was literally the only bare bones stock vehicle on the run. Everyone else had a lift and at least 35s.

The only part that took trail damage was the transmission crossmember. To me, that's a pretty easy fix, just replace it with one with more clearance if it ever needs replacement. But for now, it's fine, just looks a little banged up.

That said, there are plenty of capable 4x4s out there! Pick the one you like the best.

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[MoabRox]

The train was rated a 6. Here's how Red Rock 4 Wheelers describe a 6:

Trails are difficult with considerable erosion damage, loose rocks, dirt, and slickrock. Water in excess of 12” is possible with mud conditions. Steps not exceeding 36”. 4WD, 35" plus tires and two traction adding devices (lockers, limited slips) are required. A winch would be a plus. Enhanced suspension travel and good ground clearance are a required. Excellent driving skills are recommended.

Not sure that I would describe all of the trails in Moab as harder. There are some harder trails there, but for instance, Hell's Revenge is a 6. Steel Bender is a 6.

Mine was literally the only bare bones stock vehicle on the run. Everyone else had a lift and at least 35s.

The only part that took trail damage was the transmission crossmember. To me, that's a pretty easy fix, just replace it with one with more clearance if it ever needs replacement. But for now, it's fine, just looks a little banged up.

That said, there are plenty of capable 4x4s out there! Pick the one you like the best.

Wow. Sounds like the trail has seen considerable erosion since I last ran it. Maybe the clearance won't be as much of an issue as I thought, especially since mine will be a 2 door.

I know Red Rock 4 Wheelers rating system well (we used to be regular participants). It's a good general guide. I think it's based on longer 4x4s (4 door JKs) and relatively moderately experienced/skilled drivers, as it should be (since that describes the majority of the Easter Safari participants). We routinely run "6" trails with our three Jeep Cherokees (XJs)--all have open diffs and run 31", 32" and 33" tires. One of our favorites is Metal Masher (rated 7), which my son masters (no by-passes) with only 31" tires and 3" of lift. The 2 door Bronco has a very similar wheel base to the XJs, so there's hope that with a couple inches of lift and 33s it will be able to keep up with the XJs.

When more of us in Utah take delivery of our Broncos, we should organize some trail runs!

 

[Norm A.]

On the plus side Chris you created your own ground clearance now

 

[goatman]

Don't worry about not ordering the Sasquatch package. If you ordered a badlands, there is very little difference , plus you would most likely not have taken delivery of your vehicle yet. From what I understand the only thing you're missing from the Sas pack is wheels, tires and a sticker. Simply remove your front and rear crash bars and buy the wheels and tires of your choice, this way you can get stuff that is better and cheaper than Ford OEM . Plus, the Sas really has only 34.4" tires so true 35s will put you just a bit higher.

And the 4.7 diff gearing. That tire diameter is what a 35" tire is, so nothing to gain there other then the ability to get a different tire than the Territory. Also .5" of lift. But, very little difference. My current order if I don't change it is a non-SAS BL. Put my own wheels on it.

The big thing is the disco sway bar, not available on the Basesquatch. A lot of money for that disco, but it's a big deal.

 

[ChrisD]

Wow. Sounds like the trail has seen considerable erosion since I last ran it. Maybe the clearance won't be as much of an issue as I thought, especially since mine will be a 2 door.

I know Red Rock 4 Wheelers rating system well (we used to be regular participants). It's a good general guide. I think it's based on longer 4x4s (4 door JKs) and relatively moderately experienced/skilled drivers, as it should be (since that describes the majority of the Easter Safari participants). We routinely run "6" trails with our three Jeep Cherokees (XJs)--all have open diffs and run 31", 32" and 33" tires. One of our favorites is Metal Masher (rated 7), which my son masters (no by-passes) with only 31" tires and 3" of lift. The 2 door Bronco has a very similar wheel base to the XJs, so there's hope that with a couple inches of lift and 33s it will be able to keep up with the XJs.

When more of us in Utah take delivery of our Broncos, we should organize some trail runs!

I seriously didn't feel less than capable up there. I just would have liked a bit more clearance. A lot of it was just picking my way around large rocks. If I have X inches of clearance and the rock is X+1 inches tall, there's a problem! There are a lot of large rocks in the trail up there these days.

There's more clearance under the driver than the passenger side by the way.

The problem in this case is that the transmission crossmember sits lower than the frame by about 2 inches. It also sits lower than the skid plates in the front of the Bronco, so if you don't hit on the skid plate, you might very well hit the transmission crossmember.

It's just poorly designed. There are some better designs in the works and that'll be a part I replace with something better. Especially after I found out what Ford wants for one of those - it doesn't even make sense the pricing. It's literally a welded piece of steel with some screw holes in it.

 

[goatman]

@ChrisD
Thanks for sharing. I live in Utah as well. It's been many years since I played in Mineral Basin. Last time I tried, it was a UTV zoo so we aborted the trip. Since then I've stayed away.

Your experience has me seriously doubting that the 6G Bronco is suited for me. If a Badlands hits the underside that much in Mineral Basin, how will it ever survive the harder trails around Moab? I was hoping to get away with minimal lift and 33s on my 2D BD (assuming it survives Dirt Mountain). Sounds like I had better plan on a couple inches of lift and additional skid plates. 35s would help as well, but they make no sense for a vehicle that will spend most of its time driving around town.

Good thing my Jeep XJ will be staying in the family! I have yet to hit anything on the underside other than the diffs and front LCA axle mounts.

As an XJ driver also we are blessed with an extremely capable platform. One of the cool things is that the 2dr Bronco is the same wheelbase as our XJ's. Regarding ground clearance, a 2dr is going to be much better than the 4dr, so that will help. Also, I'm learning that the 2.7 has additional bracing that the 2.3 doesn't have, so the 2.3 has more ground clearance. I'd love to see some pics underneath to verify and understand this. It seems those two K braces are really the only thing that got beat up, and those would be pretty simple to modify to keep that from happening. On our XJ's we have to do some frame reinforcement anyway so I don't think learning to protect the Bronco will be any big deal. I love my XJ's, but I am also ready to drive a modern vehicle as a daily driver, and I won't buy a JK or JL. Looking forward to the Bronco.

Oh, and BTW, I ran Fins and Things in my stock XJ on 30's and didn't even unhook the sway bar. Unless you're going to run the stuff in BFE, the Bronco is going to do great in Moab.

 

[ChrisD]

As an XJ driver also we are blessed with an extremely capable platform. One of the cool things is that the 2dr Bronco is the same wheelbase as our XJ's. Regarding ground clearance, a 2dr is going to be much better than the 4dr, so that will help. Also, I'm learning that the 2.7 has additional bracing that the 2.3 doesn't have, so the 2.3 has more ground clearance. I'd love to see some pics underneath to verify and understand this. It seems those two K braces are really the only thing that got beat up, and those would be pretty simple to modify to keep that from happening. On our XJ's we have to do some frame reinforcement anyway so I don't think learning to protect the Bronco will be any big deal. I love my XJ's, but I am also ready to drive a modern vehicle as a daily driver, and I won't buy a JK or JL. Looking forward to the Bronco.

I drove a JK a lot up in WA. I had it up on an Old Man Emu 2" lift and ran 35" Goodyear MT/R tires. This is my first 4 door off roader, so some of it is me learning how to deal with more wheelbase, but it really did pretty okay. I was actually surprised to see that Ford had chosen to have that stuff lower than the frame. It's just a weird decision to me. But I'm not a mechanical engineer!

I had a little scuffing on the sliders, but no body damage at all. Nowhere on the trip did the frame rub, just that crossmember.

I had an XJ when I was stationed in Hawaii. I really loved it and the 4.0 was a great engine, but man, that thing hated the salt air. One of the guys in my group in WA drove a Comanche, just the pickup truck version of the XJ. That was a beast! I was a little jealous.

 

[goatman]

I just re-watched a thread with an undercarriage video. On the base Bronco, which I assumed was a 2.3, the K braces on the crossmember were not there. I heard that the 2.7 has a K chassis and the 2.3 doesn't, so the 2.3 has more ground clearance. Have to check this out further.

Hope you don't mind, I'm going to start a thread about this and use your pics.

 

[Aaonter]

I drove a JK a lot up in WA. I had it up on an Old Man Emu 2" lift and ran 35" Goodyear MT/R tires. This is my first 4 door off roader, so some of it is me learning how to deal with more wheelbase, but it really did pretty okay. I was actually surprised to see that Ford had chosen to have that stuff lower than the frame. It's just a weird decision to me. But I'm not a mechanical engineer!

I had a little scuffing on the sliders, but no body damage at all. Nowhere on the trip did the frame rub, just that crossmember.

I had an XJ when I was stationed in Hawaii. I really loved it and the 4.0 was a great engine, but man, that thing hated the salt air. One of the guys in my group in WA drove a Comanche, just the pickup truck version of the XJ. That was a beast! I was a little jealous.

Have had 2 XJs. Fun fact Jeep people hated that thing when it came out. It ruined Jeep for them. Now it is know as one of the greatest off-roader out there. Unibody can be a great thing. Keeps weight down and overall size as well. One of the first to go coil springs too. Fixed up even a little they are un stoppable.

I have a 2d JL Rubicon and have run Hells revenge among other, took all the hard lines stock and it did great. "Stock" rigs does not mean the same thing it did 20 or so years ago. I want the Bronco for more overlanding later. Ford did such a great job on the suspension and shock tuning that I think for the most part if you are not careful with what lift you chose you can hurt the performance. I remember more than a few people who had RZR 800S that replaced the suspension with long arms and longer shocks that actually hurt it. They could no longer run the woops the same. Companies pay so much money and spend so much time tuning the rigs that after market companies just cannot afford. the Fun Haver seems to be really spending the time though.

Thanks to people like you taking it out the Bronco will just get better and better.

 

[ChrisD]

I just re-watched a thread with an undercarriage video. On the base Bronco, which I assumed was a 2.3, the K braces on the crossmember were not there. I heard that the 2.7 has a K chassis and the 2.3 doesn't, so the 2.3 has more ground clearance. Have to check this out further.

Hope you don't mind, I'm going to start a thread about this and use your pics.

I wonder, there's three possibilities...

The 2.3 manual
The 2.3 auto
The 2.7 (always auto for now)

Is it something with the auto, or did the 2.3 auto lack the K braces on the transmission crossmember, as well?

I was really on the fence with the 2.7 and I think I'd have liked the 2.3 as much, especially after driving my brother-in-law's Ranger, but when I placed my order, FUD took over and I was scared of the lowly 4 cylinder.

 

[JohnG]

Wow, shocking results from Miller Hill. I live right at the base of AF canyon and run that trail often. I've taken my 100 and 200 series land cruisers on 33's up through that rocky part with no spotters and have never scraped. These broncos are LOW

 

[Goosesoup]

Haha, yeah, I have a subscription to the drive thru car wash that sprays out the undercarriage. I'd never even known about subscriptions to car washes until I got to Utah.

You will just have to come use my detail company to get the microscratches out after much use in those car washes.

 

[ChrisD]

Wow, shocking results from Miller Hill. I live right at the base of AF canyon and run that trail often. I've taken my 100 and 200 series land cruisers on 33's up through that rocky part with no spotters and have never scraped. These broncos are LOW

Yep, that transmission crossmember is definitely low. I really didn't know it was there until then. At that point, I started bearing more right on things since there's more clearance under the driver than passenger side.

But yeah, poor design choice. Everything else underneath the Bronco was fine with the exception of that crossmember, so I'm positive it is the culprit. Looks like it wouldn't be a problem with the 2.3...

Edited to add - we're almost neighbors. I'm just to the north in Draper.

 

[ChrisD]

I actually got underneath just a moment ago with a tape measure. I show the K supports for the transmission crossmember at 10" above my garage floor.

The skid plates are at 11" from the garage floor. The transmission crossmember itself, with the exception of the K legs on it, sits at 11". The skid plates have a couple of minor rub marks on them, not even enough to scratch off the paint.

Which goes back to my original thought that one inch of clearance is all I needed... If I can relocate those two K legs, I think that solves that problem.

 

[MotownSpartan]

Great Post! Have been debating on going for SAS on my BL order...

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