My Hopes for the New Bronco - High speed off-roader

[Jalisurr]

I think I've got a bit of a different hope for the New Bronco than some of you so I thought I'd make a thread to discuss what you fine folks think.

For background, I live up in BC in Canada, we have narrow, often washed out and frost-heaved fire road trails where our fun offroading and amateur tsd rally competition happens, no Moab rocks or Mojave dunes, and not groomed gravel roads where traditional, lower, less durable rally cars can survive. We also run in the Canadian winter, where we are rallying in a foot or more of fresh powder at times. Currently I have a 1997 Mitsubishi Pajero Evolution (The road version of Mitsu's Paris-Dakar racer) which is pretty much perfect for the job. Full independent suspension, beefy frame and components, multi-mode 4wd (locked or unlocked center diff) with low range, lsd front and back, but in a small package (about the same size as a new 2dr wrangler). It's brought me a few in-class victories at rally events here, the most common vehicles that I compete against are modified turbo Subaru Foresters. However, it's an older, quite rare jdm vehicle and parts are pretty difficult to find when I need them. I'm hopeful there may be a Bronco that could replace it for hard usage.

Here would be my requirement list:

• TT V6, need that low-mid range torque
• 2 Door body, fairly short wheelbase and overall length. Not too wide
• Must be IFS. Live front axles handle poorly at higher speeds, a couple people have tried wranglers and they don't do well. Live rear axle is fine.
• If it has the E-Locker like the ranger and f150 it must be able to be locked at all speeds like the Raptor in off-road mode
• Needs to have a 4wd mode that can be used on mixed surfaces, ie, not fully locked up. The raptor has the 4wd Auto mode that would be fine.
• A version made for high-speed offroading with durability like the Raptor. Give me the fancy shocks and the beefed up frame along with the off-road modes for the electronics

Here would be my nice-to-have list:

• Manual transmission
• Front LSD. If it doesn't have one I'll probably add it myself, use of known Dana axles should make that possible.
• Full factory underbody protection
• Recaro or other supportive bucket seats

I know a lot of you are hoping for a rock crawler to stick it to the wrangler, 4runner, and the like, but I'm kinda hoping it goes a different direction and we get a small, usable Raptor equivalent. I love those trucks as they are the only thing with comparable high speed offroad ability to my Mitsubishi but they are waaay to big to be usable on our roads, even the ranger raptor is far too long, even if they sold it here. It's hard to drift around a hairpin when your vehicle is longer than the road is wide! The little info we have seen so far has me pretty hopeful that it could end up being in line with what I want - and the comments from Ford's boss about the Bronco being more for high speed offroad than the Jeep only help with that.

You guys think I'll be happy or am I dreaming over here? Ford's given so little concrete info it's hard to say for sure.

tl;dr: I wanna go fast off road but the Raptor is too big. Ford help pls?

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[BroncoMike]

Here would be my requirement list:

• TT V6, need that low-mid range torque
• 2 Door body, fairly short wheelbase and overall length. Not too wide
• Must be IFS. Live front axles handle poorly at higher speeds, a couple people have tried wranglers and they don't do well. Live rear axle is fine.
• If it has the E-Locker like the ranger and f150 it must be able to be locked at all speeds like the Raptor in off-road mode
• Needs to have a 4wd mode that can be used on mixed surfaces, ie, not fully locked up. The raptor has the 4wd Auto mode that would be fine.
• A version made for high-speed offroading with durability like the Raptor. Give me the fancy shocks and the beefed up frame along with the off-road modes for the electronics

Here would be my nice-to-have list:

• Manual transmission
• Front LSD. If it doesn't have one I'll probably add it myself, use of known Dana axles should make that possible.
• Full factory underbody protection
• Recaro or other supportive bucket seats

I think the TT V6 will happen, it just remains to be seen which one, and when - initial availability may just be base engine.

2 door is strongly suggested, some would say confirmed. Width - it's been characterized as "midsize", that is open to interpretation.

IFS: reading Tarot cards tells me that this will be the case, and a solid axle would be an option if available at all. While the solid axle group is extremely vocal, I don't know if we're a majority. Few auto manufacturers approach a model without looking at maximizing sales, so making it appealing to the highest number of potential buyers is the goal.

I would expect e-lockers and the full range of flexibility in application of 4wd modes that we see in other Ford truck products, but probably as options.

Durability: The Raptor is just "okay" in this department. Anyone doing off-road racing with one is making a whole lot of investment in aftermarket and/or custom parts. Shocks are among the first to go, so for me, skip the high-dollar yet inadequate factory options. My preference would be if they offered a model with the cheapest of steel wheels and tires that I'm going to replace anyways, ditto for shocks, bumpers, and skidplates - my experience is factory suspension and protection bling is almost universally insufficient.

Manual transmission has been bandied about quite a bit. Will it happen? I haven't heard anything since the initial speculation on both this and the Dana axles.

Recaro seats - I guess it's possible as an option. Some people hate them. Not like that's a difficult retrofit if they aren't to your liking and they are important to you.

I'd love to see some pics of your machine and a video or two of a race. Sounds like a blast! Do y'all drink Crown Royal Maple after a race?

 

[Nickp]

From a geometry perspective the Bronco is not going to be a high speed desert runner. If it is going to be comparable to a Wrangler unlimited it will still have about a foot too short of a wheelbase for high speed stuff(MINIMUM for desert running is about 128”) I don’t expect it to be awful but from a stability perspective there is a reason you don’t see jeeps out in the dunes in the same way you see trucks or even old rangers.

 

[Jalisurr]

Recaro seats - I guess it's possible as an option. Some people hate them. Not like that's a difficult retrofit if they aren't to your liking and they are important to you.

My Mitsubishi came OEM with Recaros, and I retrofitted a set into my Corvette as well. Not exactly what I would call an easy job, with modern power heated seats and everything there's various wiring to do to keep the computers happy, but yeah, certainly possible. That's why it's under 'nice to have'.

From a geometry perspective the Bronco is not going to be a high speed desert runner. If it is going to be comparable to a Wrangler unlimited it will still have about a foot too short of a wheelbase for high speed stuff(MINIMUM for desert running is about 128”) I don’t expect it to be awful but from a stability perspective there is a reason you don’t see jeeps out in the dunes in the same way you see trucks or even old rangers.

For a baja desert runner, yes, you're absolutely right. That's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for something in line with my own current vehicle, which was designed for the Dakar rally. Even modern cars that compete at the Dakar are much shorter wheelbase than that - around 115 inches, and older ones like the Pajero Evo were even shorter. They manage to do this just fine:

I'd love to see some pics of your machine and a video or two of a race. Sounds like a blast! Do y'all drink Crown Royal Maple after a race?

Here's a couple pics of the rig and a video from my youtube channel! Apologies for video quality, I have a harness bar mount for the camera now but I haven't uploaded any of the footage from recent events yet.

 

[Jake_zx2]

Honestly, I'd like pretty much all the same stuff as you, except the Recaros... have them in my Mustang, and they're great in that application, but this is going to be my DD so i wouldn't want the Recaros for that. If they make it an option, it would be cool, but I honestly doubt they would

 

[Jalisurr]

Honestly, I'd like pretty much all the same stuff as you, except the Recaros... have them in my Mustang, and they're great in that application, but this is going to be my DD so i wouldn't want the Recaros for that. If they make it an option, it would be cool, but I honestly doubt they would

Yeah, that makes sense. Neither of my cars is my DD, that would be my ZX-6R. I just love how tight Recaro seats are compared to a lot of other buckets, because I'm a skinny guy. I know Ford has put Recaros in most of their high performance stuff lately, so I'm hoping that a high performance trim of the Bronco would have them as well...

 

[Stampede.Offroad]

In what way do the crossovers in Ford's lineup not fit your needs? They would seem to have or be capable of everything on your list with some modification.

Here would be my requirement list:

• TT V6, need that low-mid range torque
• 2 Door body, fairly short wheelbase and overall length. Not too wide
• Must be IFS. Live front axles handle poorly at higher speeds, a couple people have tried wranglers and they don't do well. Live rear axle is fine.
• If it has the E-Locker like the ranger and f150 it must be able to be locked at all speeds like the Raptor in off-road mode
• Needs to have a 4wd mode that can be used on mixed surfaces, ie, not fully locked up. The raptor has the 4wd Auto mode that would be fine.
• A version made for high-speed offroading with durability like the Raptor. Give me the fancy shocks and the beefed up frame along with the off-road modes for the electronics

Here would be my nice-to-have list:

• Manual transmission
• Front LSD. If it doesn't have one I'll probably add it myself, use of known Dana axles should make that possible.
• Full factory underbody protection
• Recaro or other supportive bucket seats

eta: Looking up more on the Canadian rallies, it would seem that Subaru completely dominates, with things like a WRX STI ...

... and others like a Hyundai Tiburon, Subaru Impreza (being driven by the people who win). I really fail to see how the Bronco would fit into this type of competitive driving at all, it would be extremely prone to rolling in that kind of high speed cornering.

 

[Jalisurr]

In what way do the crossovers in Ford's lineup not fit your needs? They would seem to have or be capable of everything on your list with some modification.

In no particular order, they are all at least one of: too big/heavy, not sufficiently durable for off-road abuse, too slow, or have no proper full time 4wd system with a transfer case or center diff.

eta: Looking up more on the Canadian rallies, it would seem that Subaru completely dominates, with things like a WRX STI ...

... and others like a Hyundai Tiburon, Subaru Impreza (being driven by the people who win). I really fail to see how the Bronco would fit into this type of competitive driving at all, it would be extremely prone to rolling in that kind of high speed cornering.

Yep - totally correct in terms of Canadian stage rally. Those take place on groomed+graded gravel or snow roads that are generally nice and flat. Imprezas have generally been dominant there for sure, or any other traditional 'rally car' like the fiesta R5 etc.

The events I compete in are amateur events called 'tsd rally'. The challenge is a bit different. First off the roads are not prepared, we drive on whatever it looks like when we arrive - and we use smaller roads off the beaten path versus the stage rallies. There's essentially a target average speed you are told to do over each timed stage and you are trying to stay as close to that as possible - with multiple checkpoints along the way so you can't just make up time on the smooth easy parts, you have to try to actually maintain that average through every part of the stage. Part of the challenge is also just getting your vehicle to the finish line, these events cover 800+ km over a weekend and you don't get to go to the 'service park' after every stage like in the stage rallies you are thinking of. You need to be able to do the whole thing without breaking. A machine that I know I don't need to baby over the tougher sections is a big plus.

Now, that's not to say I need an ultra-4 buggy. I definitely do not. As with most off-road things, it's entirely possible to do it with a vehicle with far less ability than you think, but knowing my vehicle was designed for more punishment than I'm putting it through lets me do it with confidence. I've won more than one event because my Pajero could keep going full steam over the rough sections when the car-based crossovers were blowing their strut top hats out of the mounts. THAT is what I would want a Bronco to do, but with the parts availability and features of a new Ford rather than a 20+ year old limited run Mitsubishi.

 

[BroncoMike]

Here's a couple pics of the rig and a video from my youtube channel! Apologies for video quality, I have a harness bar mount for the camera now but I haven't uploaded any of the footage from recent events yet.

Looks like a blast! Are those private roads? I can't imagine that kind of event going on in the US unless it was private space.

 

[OX1]

Looks like a blast! Are those private roads? I can't imagine that kind of event going on in the US unless it was private space.

I think you need a cage, seeing some of those drop off's on the sides of those roads.
I've rolled 3 times and the last one was pretty nasty, and that was starting at almsot no forward speed.
Can't imagine going down in a gulley, roling a couple times, and your already at speed.

 

[Jalisurr]

Looks like a blast! Are those private roads? I can't imagine that kind of event going on in the US unless it was private space.

Technically public roads, they are logging roads in the interior of BC. We don't use them while the loggers are though, obviously

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