National Park Service Will Cite Drivers of AWD Cars For Driving on 4WD-Only Trails

[dgorsett]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I was speaking of 4x4 trucks, not Broncos. I'm fairly familiar with Bronco terminology. Not sure if people who own 4x4 trucks use the term 'lockers' for locking hubs. I've never seen a 4x4 truck that didn't have locking front hubs.

No you made yourself clear and you are wrong.

Maybe I shouldn't be so blunt to someone who identifies as an axe murderer.

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[AXMRDR]

…and locking only one hub does nothing to help traction…

Yes it does. It provides 'drive' to one front wheel. I've gotten out of slippery places by doing this.

If the wheel breaks traction then you're right, it wouldn't help without locking in the other hub.

As for the terminology, I think that was already squared away after the video post.
Thanks for the reply.

 

[AXMRDR]

No you made yourself clear and you are wrong.

Maybe I shouldn't be so blunt to someone who identifies as an axe murderer.

It's just a sarcastic moniker that I've had for 30 years. Be as blunt as you feel you need to be.

 

[dgorsett]

Yes it does. It provides 'drive' to one front wheel. I've gotten out of slippery places by doing this.

If the wheel breaks traction then you're right, it wouldn't help without locking in the other hub.

As for the terminology, I think that was already squared away after the video post.
Thanks for the reply.

There are two cases where locking one hub would do any good at all.

1. Unlikely. The vehicle has a limited slip or locking front axle (that is locked)

2. Likely. A late model Ford Super Duty with electric shifted (knob on dash) transfer case. These actually have a two position hub 'locked' and 'auto'. If you lock one hub manually and shift into 4wd the other hub will lock automatically (it won't turn the dial but will lock internally) and both hubs will actually be locked giving you regular 4wd and you may extricate yourself.

If you manually lock only one hub on a 4wd without automatic hubs or a limited slip/locking front differential all power will be routed through standard differentiating action to the wheel with the least resistance (the one with the unlocked hub)

 

[AXMRDR]

There are two cases where locking one hub would do any good at all.

1. Unlikely. The vehicle has a limited slip or locking front axle (that is locked)

2. Likely. A late model Ford Super Duty with electric shifted (knob on dash) transfer case. These actually have a two position hub 'locked' and 'auto'. If you lock one hub manually and shift into 4wd the other hub will lock automatically (it won't turn the dial but will lock internally) and both hubs will actually be locked giving you regular 4wd and you may extricate yourself.

If you manually lock only one hub on a 4wd without automatic hubs or a limited slip/locking front differential all power will be routed through standard differentiating action to the wheel with the least resistance (the one with the unlocked hub)

Mine is an 02, not sure where the cutoff for late model is.

The dash knob has 2WD, 4WD HI, 4WD LO.

There are vacuum lines but I don't have any confidence if they still do anything.

It's a heavy 7.3 and tends to spin easily on wet grass on incline. Nothing on my property is level. I' have locked one DS hub several times (& engaging 4WD) and got the truck to move.

I suppose I could pull the rear driveshaft out and see if locking one hub can get it to move and video it but I frankly don't care that much about it. Believe me or don't.

Like I said in earlier post, it bucks badly if both are locked and I turn sharply on pavement.

 

[dgorsett]

This now makes total sense. I had an 02 and now have a 15 which work the same. What's happening is as described in my scenario #2. You manually lock the DS and the PS auto locks when you put the knob in 4hi or lo, then you have regular 4x4 and all is good. Now if everything is working right you should be able to just shift the dash knob and it will shift to 4x4 without manually locking each hub. However, sometimes if you're stuck the auto hub won't engage, requires a little forward movement. Another possibility is the DS auto hub isn't working in which case manually engaging it works while the PS is auto engaging.

I started writing a diagnostic procedure but it got long and potentially dangerous, it involved jack stands....

 

[dgorsett]

Mine is an 02, not sure where the cutoff for late model is.

The dash knob has 2WD, 4WD HI, 4WD LO.

There are vacuum lines but I don't have any confidence if they still do anything.

It's a heavy 7.3 and tends to spin easily on wet grass on incline. Nothing on my property is level. I' have locked one DS hub several times (& engaging 4WD) and got the truck to move.

I suppose I could pull the rear driveshaft out and see if locking one hub can get it to move and video it but I frankly don't care that much about it. Believe me or don't.

Like I said in earlier post, it bucks badly if both are locked and I turn sharply on pavement.

Safe test: Go to parking lot. Engage 4wd dash knob only. Drive, turn if it bucks all is well if it doesn't one or more auto hub is not working.

 

[AXMRDR]

Safe test: Go to parking lot. Engage 4wd dash knob only. Drive, turn if it bucks all is well if it doesn't one or more auto hub is not working.

Can't today but next time I drive it I'll try that. Pretty sure I have to lock them in manually to get them to work but can't say 100%.

I seem to remember many years ago when I was changing out the front wheel bearings that the vacuum line system was sketchy. If the auto-locking hubs are vacuum operated then that's why I started manually locking them. I'll still try the parking lot test.

 

[Tilzbow]

We shouldn’t need rules in National Parks to stay a certain distance away from wildlife, yet we do. Every rule ever was created because a subset of the population does stuff that others consider stupid/irresponsible/inconsiderate/etc.

 

[Dave_1978]

From Big Bend National Park website:

You Will Need A High Clearance Four-Wheel-Drive (4WD) Vehicle
A high clearance 4WD vehicle is defined as a SUV or truck type vehicle, with at least 15 inch tire rims or more, with a low gear transfer case, designed for heavier type use than a standard passenger vehicle, with at least 8 inches of clearance or more from the lowest point of the frame, body, suspension, or differential, to the ground, also including a means to mechanically power both, front and real wheels at the same time.

 

[mpeugeot]

From Big Bend National Park website:

You Will Need A High Clearance Four-Wheel-Drive (4WD) Vehicle
A high clearance 4WD vehicle is defined as a SUV or truck type vehicle, with at least 15 inch tire rims or more, with a low gear transfer case, designed for heavier type use than a standard passenger vehicle, with at least 8 inches of clearance or more from the lowest point of the frame, body, suspension, or differential, to the ground, also including a means to mechanically power both, front and real wheels at the same time.

Not a Bronco Sport Sasquatch.

 

[Snacktime]

Not a Bronco Sport Sasquatch.

Sasquatch package just got kick in the balls, ahh its always been a mall accessory.

 

[swooshdave]

Sasquatch package just got kick in the balls, ahh its always been a mall accessory.

The Sport was never going to get the low gear transfer case. But it meets all the other criteria, correct?

 

[mpeugeot]

The Sport was never going to get the low gear transfer case. But it meets all the other criteria, correct?

Technically, but it has such limited articulation that it's likely to get itself in trouble quickly.

 

[Snacktime]

Having wheeled with a few small suvs (sports included), the ground clearance is deceptive. The issue is the body doesn't sit it on the frame giving you that extra 2-3" of frame to ride over things. The ground clearance number for these newer unibody construction vehicles needs to be higher than body on frame to wheel the same line.

Go watch Matt's off-road, note the unibody cars don't sink in like a body on frame vehicle.

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