New correct dipstick (here's part number) solves 2.7L 7-quarts engine oil capacity / maximum fill amount mystery! 🕵🏻‍♂️

[Montaracactusgrey]

And note that although the SSM, meant for dealers, said running 7 quarts is ok, the owners manual, intended for us, states:

Not sure why Ford would send out conflicting information between the SSM and the owner's manual (unless the SSM is worded so dealers can avoid sending out thousands of notices for owners to come in and have a quart drained off for all the customers who had 7 installed from the factory). The factory fill capacity is just a number to us because we didn't factory fill our Broncos.

Cool. Thanks for updating their latest info. I’m still a little skeptical for some reason - why would it be published for two years as 7 qts and then change all of a sudden to 6? It’s just really weird. Also, I’m no mechanical engineer but don’t they review this type of critical info for a while during development? To add to it further not making tons of sense - I’ve never seen a manufacturer change fluid spec or seen a new vehicle have a different factory fill than fill indicator/ dipstick in any other engine on any type of vehicle - whether yard equipment engine, generator, motorcycle, car, truck, bus, semi truck, or heavy construction equipment that I’ve changed oil/fluids in.
Maybe someone else has an example - Has any one else seen a manufacturer change these specs all of a sudden after couple years? Or fill up with different levels than recommended for regular intervals?

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[Planet_Express_IV]

Cool. Thanks for updating their latest info. I’m still a little skeptical for some reason - why would it be published for two years as 7 qts and then change all of a sudden to 6? It’s just really weird. Also, I’m no mechanical engineer but don’t they review this type of critical info for a while during development? To add to it further not making tons of sense - I’ve never seen a manufacturer change fluid spec or seen a new vehicle have a different factory fill than fill indicator/ dipstick in any other engine on any type of vehicle - whether yard equipment engine, generator, motorcycle, car, truck, bus, semi truck, or heavy construction equipment that I’ve changed oil/fluids in.
Maybe someone else has an example - Has any one else seen a manufacturer change these specs all of a sudden after couple years? Or fill up with different levels than recommended for regular intervals?

Every manufacturer will fill to a higher level on a dry engine vs during a service change because a dry engine needs to be lubricated and there are oil lines and passages that will retain oil, though in the case of this particular 2.7L EcoBoost the mystery besides why it allegedly took so long for them to change course and say that customers/dealers should only fill the crankcase and oil pan/ sump to 6 quarts.

For the other 2.7L EcoBoost applications that were always specified at 6 quart service fills, from what I've heard from technicians and an engineering contact I had, were only 0.5 quarts more than the service fill, as this is a reasonable amount of oil to remain within the engine unless you drained the oil for hours and hours.

There are so many conflicts surrounding the information though. 1.5 quarts hung up within the engine sounds more like what you would expect on a 13-15 quart oil change on a 6.7L Diesel vs a 4L smaller engine (6.7-2.7=4).

If they intended the service fill to be only 6 quarts, putting in 7.5 from the factory makes no sense, but they claim on this application to be sticking to that number.

They also said that the oil level used previously was still considered safe, but again this goes against the owners guide based on the existing dip stick to not exceed the maximum fill level.

7 quart service fill requires the MB3Z-6750-B/F or something that will accurately put this fill in the min-max range, but Ford says this stick is for the Raptor with it's 7.5 quart service fill, and that whatever FT4Z-6750-B/C stick your vehicle was built with from the factory would be considered correct at a 6 quart service fill

 

[schlotzj]

Maybe I missed the oil capacity SSM being posted to the forum, but could someone please send it to me? I want to keep both the oil capacity and dipstick SSM printouts for my records.

 

[0ne]

Maybe I missed the oil capacity SSM being posted to the forum, but could someone please send it to me? I want to keep both the oil capacity and dipstick SSM printouts for my records.

 

[We_Love_Tacos]

What a cluster fk.

 

[0ne]

What an accommodating engine able to function with arbitrary oil levels!

 

[xusarmy]

Every manufacturer will fill to a higher level on a dry engine vs during a service change because a dry engine needs to be lubricated and there are oil lines and passages that will retain oil, though in the case of this particular 2.7L EcoBoost the mystery besides why it allegedly took so long for them to change course and say that customers/dealers should only fill the crankcase and oil pan/ sump to 6 quarts.

For the other 2.7L EcoBoost applications that were always specified at 6 quart service fills, from what I've heard from technicians and an engineering contact I had, were only 0.5 quarts more than the service fill, as this is a reasonable amount of oil to remain within the engine unless you drained the oil for hours and hours.

There are so many conflicts surrounding the information though. 1.5 quarts hung up within the engine sounds more like what you would expect on a 13-15 quart oil change on a 6.7L Diesel vs a 4L smaller engine (6.7-2.7=4).

If they intended the service fill to be only 6 quarts, putting in 7.5 from the factory makes no sense, but they claim on this application to be sticking to that number.

They also said that the oil level used previously was still considered safe, but again this goes against the owners guide based on the existing dip stick to not exceed the maximum fill level.

7 quart service fill requires the MB3Z-6750-B/F or something that will accurately put this fill in the min-max range, but Ford says this stick is for the Raptor with it's 7.5 quart service fill, and that whatever FT4Z-6750-B/C stick your vehicle was built with from the factory would be considered correct at a 6 quart service fill

So you say that FT4Z-6750-B/C is the correct stick for the 2.7L engine. My part number on my dipstick is FT4E-6750-BF, so is mine, the wrong dipstick?

TIA,

 

[Planet_Express_IV]

So you say that FT4Z-6750-B/C is the correct stick for the 2.7L engine. My part number on my dipstick is FT4E-6750-BF, so is mine, the wrong dipstick?

TIA,

No, you're looking at the engineering part number which is stamped on the dip stick, but this corresponds to one of the two FT4Z-6750 service part numbers. Now why they put only one of these numbers and not both, if they don't put the service part numbers on the part I can't answer that. That's a correct engineering part number for the 6 quart service fill stick.

 

[Biggb]

Hate to throw a wrench but this is on Ford pro service tech website today. The part number you are claiming is for the 2.7 is actually for the 3.0 raptor

 

[cowman]

More info….John Kilby, Engine Systems Engineer at Ford, told Bronco Nation that the rear oil sumps were upgraded, and the oil pans enlarged to deliver adequate pressure at a 45 degree downhill angle and a 30 degree side slope –– not bad. The larger pans mean the Bronco will hold seven quarts of oil (the Ranger uses six). This will ensure Bronco engines maintain standards under the demands of off-roading. "

 

[broncorik]

Hate to throw a wrench but this is on Ford pro service tech website today. The part number you are claiming is for the 2.7 is actually for the 3.0 raptor

Yes indeed...the correct part number for the 2.7 is either the new C stick or the original stick with the H on the handle (to accurately measure the 6 quarts the latest SSM indicates). The ones in your post were very short-lived in the 2.7 saga...and yes they will accurately measure 7 quarts, if that is what someone wants to do.

 

[broncorik]

More info….John Kilby, Engine Systems Engineer at Ford, told Bronco Nation that the rear oil sumps were upgraded, and the oil pans enlarged to deliver adequate pressure at a 45 degree downhill angle and a 30 degree side slope –– not bad. The larger pans mean the Bronco will hold seven quarts of oil (the Ranger uses six). This will ensure Bronco engines maintain standards under the demands of off-roading. "

John Kilby must have dreamnt of such an upgraded sump and 7 quart pan, but since that time something changed hence the latest SSM clarifying that our 2.7s are meant to hold 6 quarts. I really wanted to believe in the mystical super pan, and I am certain that it would be a wonderful thing to have for all of us who wheel those angles often, but it seems like no such luck. We were also supposed to have had a cool off road app that worked with our dash displays for navigating off the beaten path...no such luck on that either.

What I can't wrap my head around is that we have all been trying on get a straight answer on this "6 or 7 quart" thing for more than a YEAR...when all it seems like it SHOULD have taken is for someone to actually have a conversation (or even send an email) directly to John Kilby and ask him what, exactly, happened to the 7 quart pan?? Shouldn't he be able to get us the definitive answer we have sought (and perhaps explain the cluster-f that has been multiple sticks in the catalog and confused owners/service managers/techs/parts folks/lube places/etc.? Maybe he no longer works at Ford?

 

[cowman]

John Kilby must have dreamnt of such an upgraded sump and 7 quart pan, but since that time something changed hence the latest SSM clarifying that our 2.7s are meant to hold 6 quarts. I really wanted to believe in the mystical super pan, and I am certain that it would be a wonderful thing to have for all of us who wheel those angles often, but it seems like no such luck. We were also supposed to have had a cool off road app that worked with our dash displays for navigating off the beaten path...no such luck on that either.

What I can't wrap my head around is that we have all been trying on get a straight answer on this "6 or 7 quart" thing for more than a YEAR...when all it seems like it SHOULD have taken is for someone to actually have a conversation (or even send an email) directly to John Kilby and ask him what, exactly, happened to the 7 quart pan?? Shouldn't he be able to get us the definitive answer we have sought (and perhaps explain the cluster-f that has been multiple sticks in the catalog and confused owners/service managers/techs/parts folks/lube places/etc.? Maybe he no longer works at Ford?

Nothing happen to the oil pan… just Ford didn’t want to recall the sticks… simple

 

[Planet_Express_IV]

John Kilby must have dreamnt of such an upgraded sump and 7 quart pan, but since that time something changed hence the latest SSM clarifying that our 2.7s are meant to hold 6 quarts. I really wanted to believe in the mystical super pan, and I am certain that it would be a wonderful thing to have for all of us who wheel those angles often, but it seems like no such luck. We were also supposed to have had a cool off road app that worked with our dash displays for navigating off the beaten path...no such luck on that either.

What I can't wrap my head around is that we have all been trying on get a straight answer on this "6 or 7 quart" thing for more than a YEAR...when all it seems like it SHOULD have taken is for someone to actually have a conversation (or even send an email) directly to John Kilby and ask him what, exactly, happened to the 7 quart pan?? Shouldn't he be able to get us the definitive answer we have sought (and perhaps explain the cluster-f that has been multiple sticks in the catalog and confused owners/service managers/techs/parts folks/lube places/etc.? Maybe he no longer works at Ford?

The issue with them changing course and saying that for service fill you should only use 6 quarts does not explain why they then considerably overfilled the engines at the factory with 7.5 quarts of oil if this was supposed to be the carry over service fill from say the mostly similar Gen 2 2.7L in the F-150 with the dual fuel injection vs the Gen 1 being direct injected only engine and why they will continue to do so.

They also when saying it should use 6 quart service fills admitted that it really doesn't matter, but if one wanted to stick to the original oil levels you would need to switch to an alternative dip stick or scribe the 6 quart one with a new full mark based on the full level.

This answer from the company only serves to further confuse the matter.

I know they think, ok we changed the manuals (HTML versions at least) and issued a pair of SSMs for the dealer technicians, but the fact that they didn't outright say you must only fill the engine with 6 quarts after an oil change, and never mind the man behind the curtain that was that we filled this specific variant 1.5 quarts over the new service fill, and 1 quart more than the other 2.7L applications.

I know why they can't tell you not to stick to 7 quarts, as the fact that they dry filled the engine more than this level it should be still safe to run at that level for at least an indeterminate period of time, and it would open them up to further liability if an engine failed at that level when it was coming from the factory with the same or more oil in it, but I do not know why they would have filled it that much if they expected to stick with a 6 quart service fill like the F-150.

Some things will never be adequately explained.

By the factory fill oil level and the original documentation which had been confirmed by previous field service engineers, and things like that article saying there was supposed to be an increased capacity for both engines, but the 2.3 basically never got more oil than in the Ranger application, but they did over fill the 2.7L relative to the F-150 variant of the engine.

So ultimately it's up to the customer as to how they want to use the vehicle, but if you're going to have your oil changed by the dealer you have to expect them to follow the latest guidance, and if you're dead set on running 7 quarts you'd better plan on bringing an extra quart with you. Though I'm not sure what they would do with the other stick that was initially released for the 2.7L before they changed their mind for whatever reason and now said it was for the 3.0L, would they fill it robotically to 6 quarts and not check the dip stick, or would they fill it at least within the marks? Who knows.

 

[broncorik]

Nothing happen to the oil pan… just Ford didn’t want to recall the sticks… simple

Um...you realize that they changed the PN for the stick 3 times, right (each of which would have met the criteria for your "stick recall" line of thinking)? So if 7 was/is in fact correct, they could have simply left the Raptor stick (change number 2) in the catalog and silently went about their business (just like they are doing now with the C stick...NO recall). As is, how is it any easier for them to have to issue an SSM, change the owners manuals (print copies/PDFs/HTML) simply to avoid a "stick recall?" Additionally, why would they backpedal on a supposed perk like a "7 quart pan" designed to do magical things? If it does actually exist, and if it is intended to hold 7 quarts, do you actually believe Ford would instruct tens of thousands of owners to intentionally run one quart low (again, simply to avoid a "stick recall" (in direct contradiction to their "7 quart wonder pan" advertising)? Doubtful. It is much more likely that the pan that was on the drawing table (or in the engineer's head) that holds 7 quarts never actually materialized (like the off road navigation program), and that Ford figured that out after enough people noticed that their oil levels were well over the max mark. If they are trying to avoid anything, it is having owners panic that they have 7 quarts (by having a "won't hurt anything" statement that DIRECTLY contradicts their warning to NOT overfill the engine. I think ALL of us who own 2.7s would love it if our pans were meant to and actually would function as intended with 7 quarts...but apparently that is not the reality. Owners can certainly pour in all the oil they want, but I believe that the mere fact that Ford is clearly backpedaling in their initial 7 quart musings with tangible position statements (like an SSM and the, you know, owner's manual) that they recognized an oopsie on their part (especially if they claim that 7 quarts won't hurt the engine...IF that is true, why not simply leave everything at the 7 quarts directive?). Speaking of stick recalls, something had to change...even between our original H handle stick for 6 quarts and the C model, because the max and full lines are in the exact same places...but the twist height changed. Note that even so our original sticks are NOT recalled...so there goes the theory of them changing to 6 quarts only to avoid a stick "recall."

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