No ADM Dealerships (No Price Markup For 2021 Bronco)

[Dave2002ti]

Overlap the new Defender.??? Come on. A 110 base model with a vinyl seats and POS I4 turbo prices out at around $70K. I am guessing an oil service at your local Jag/Land Rover stealer will be $300 plus. Also dont forget FCA is itroducing a new 2021 Grand Cherokee based on the craptastic Stelvio platform. Interesting that GM isnt playing in this category. Tahoe is too big. Bring back a real Blazer and not a FWD based mall crawler. Question will be come Fall and the winter of 2021 is how many dealers are filing for bankruptcy and how many are just hanging on. FCA is offering 84mos financing at zero%.

Dave Apker

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[Jalisurr]

Overlap the new Defender.??? Come on. A 110 base model with a vinyl seats and POS I4 turbo prices out at around $70K. I am guessing an oil service at your local Jag/Land Rover stealer will be $300 plus. Also dont forget FCA is itroducing a new 2021 Grand Cherokee based on the craptastic Stelvio platform. Interesting that GM isnt playing in this category. Tahoe is too big. Bring back a real Blazer and not a FWD based mall crawler. Question will be come Fall and the winter of 2021 is how many dealers are filing for bankruptcy and how many are just hanging on. FCA is offering 84mos financing at zero%.

Dave Apker

Wrong thread

Also, no. Base model Defenders are 50k, the First Edition was 70

 

[Dave2002ti]

Wrong thread

Also, no. Base model Defenders are 50k, the First Edition was 70

Price a Defender 100 and with vinyl seats and the I4 turbo it comes out to almost $70K. Friend just purchased a Gladiator Rubicon and got it for well under $10K below invoice.

Dave Apker

 

[Bronc-O]

Looks like they're going about $4-5k under around here.

 

[frinesi2]

Oh God please don't start the invoice debate again ...

 

[DrPerez007]

Might be some dealers adding $695 mud flaps and floor mats early on, and low-ball trade offers, but I suspect the market will settle things down after the "be the first one on the block" folks get theirs. It happened with the Dodge Magnum (LX body); MSRP+ add-ons, then discontinued three years later with fire sale rebates and discounts to move them off the lot.

Define ADM? I find it much less offensive when I walk into a dealership and there is a dealer “add on” sheet with a clear, flat-out “Additional Dealer Markup” (or “Profit”) dollar amount than I do with all of the extra charges that a dealer utilizes to surreptitiously rip the customer off. Now mind you, I am walking right back out the door and will never set foot in that dealership again because I find ADM shameless. But the range of unscrupulous fees and charges added on is even worse, and that’s before you even get to the finance office to “close” the deal and get hammered there with a dozen different “additional dealer profit” products.

The other day, I was flipping thru some dealer websites looking at various new vehicles (for my wife). I inquired of a number of them for the bottom line, “out the door” price on a handful of vehicles (before tax, title, and registration). Most responded. Here is a sample of what I looked at, a new 2019 vehicle still on a dealer’s lot. In addition to the MSRP and discounts/rebates (which were average for a 1-1/2 year old vehicle), these are the fees and charges that I found repugnant (all of these came from the same dealer on this one vehicle):

Appearance Protection - 3 yr + $ 499.00
Dent Protection - 3 yr + $ 499.00
Window Tint + $ 299.00
Locking wheel nuts + $ 124.00
Documentation Fee + $ 699.00
Title Fee + $ 99.00
Electronic Filing + $ 98.75
TOTAL ADD-ONS + $ 2,317.75

Over time I have encountered “doc” fees as high as $899, and I have seen, among other add-ons, absurd charges for inspection, paint sealant, pin striping, cold weather package, rustproofing, dealer prep, handling, and advertising services. And, “Yes,” the $300 floor mats and mud flaps and the $150 nitrogen for tires (WTF?). Now this isn’t my first rodeo, so if I am getting into the weeds with the dealer, I generally tell them to remove every charge NOT on the MSRP. I usually get blowback that the “doc” fee is not negotiable or the window tint has already been applied or whatever. So I approach it elsewhere in the MSRP discount negotiation.

Like I said, give it to me straight up so I can walk out the door early in the process rather than waste my time dealing with all of these bogus charges and fees. I would appreciate dealerships being straight shooters; it is harder every day to find that. I believe a dealer needs to make a fair profit to stay in business, but let’s be honest upfront about it.

 

[Bronc-O]

Define ADM? I find it much less offensive when I walk into a dealership and there is a dealer “add on” sheet with a clear, flat-out “Additional Dealer Markup” (or “Profit”) dollar amount than I do with all of the extra charges that a dealer utilizes to surreptitiously rip the customer off. Now mind you, I am walking right back out the door and will never set foot in that dealership again because I find ADM shameless. But the range of unscrupulous fees and charges added on is even worse, and that’s before you even get to the finance office to “close” the deal and get hammered there with a dozen different “additional dealer profit” products.

The other day, I was flipping thru some dealer websites looking at various new vehicles (for my wife). I inquired of a number of them for the bottom line, “out the door” price on a handful of vehicles (before tax, title, and registration). Most responded. Here is a sample of what I looked at, a new 2019 vehicle still on a dealer’s lot. In addition to the MSRP and discounts/rebates (which were average for a 1-1/2 year old vehicle), these are the fees and charges that I found repugnant (all of these came from the same dealer on this one vehicle):

Appearance Protection - 3 yr + $ 499.00
Dent Protection - 3 yr + $ 499.00
Window Tint + $ 299.00
Locking wheel nuts + $ 124.00
Documentation Fee + $ 699.00
Title Fee + $ 99.00
Electronic Filing + $ 98.75
TOTAL ADD-ONS + $ 2,317.75

Over time I have encountered “doc” fees as high as $899, and I have seen, among other add-ons, absurd charges for inspection, paint sealant, pin striping, cold weather package, rustproofing, dealer prep, handling, and advertising services. And, “Yes,” the $300 floor mats and mud flaps and the $150 nitrogen for tires (WTF?). Now this isn’t my first rodeo, so if I am getting into the weeds with the dealer, I generally tell them to remove every charge NOT on the MSRP. I usually get blowback that the “doc” fee is not negotiable or the window tint has already been applied or whatever. So I approach it elsewhere in the MSRP discount negotiation.

Like I said, give it to me straight up so I can walk out the door early in the process rather than waste my time dealing with all of these bogus charges and fees. I would appreciate dealerships being straight shooters; it is harder every day to find that. I believe a dealer needs to make a fair profit to stay in business, but let’s be honest upfront about it.

This is why I stay with the same Ford dealer I've been with since 2003 and have bought 11 vehicles there, 8 from the same salesman until he retired due to health issues after 22 years at that dealer and 3 from another 17 year salesman. They don't pull any of that stuff and in fact, the salesman does everything now without needing to go to finance. I was looking at stock at a local Jeep dealer and their blurb says something about a required $899 prep fee and rather high doc fee's. I don't want to deal with any of that B S

 

[guernsej]

Sounds like a win-win and hopefully tons of folks take you up on it.

My first car, I negotiated at the dealership...so painful. Way easier to do it by email nowadays without all the scummy bullshit.

 

[mike.s]

I would buy all of my vehicles from that dealer.

 

[DrPerez007]

Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but I still like to kick the tires and take them for a spin before I drop 30, 40, or $50,000. I really used to enjoy the banter with the car salesperson and walking the lot, although over half the vehicles I buy I order from the factory. Now I just want to get in and get out and, as you say, without the bullshit. Locally, there are a couple of dealers that have recognized their customers have better things to do than sit in a showroom for two or three hours to buy a car. I have now established solid relationships with particular salespeople and my business generally goes there (assuming they sell what I want; fortunately one of them is a Ford dealership, unfortunately they don’t sell what my wife wants). And as for social distancing, it has actually existed for years, it’s called the ‘smartphone’ (if there ever was an oxymoron this is it). We need a reasonable balance of social interaction in our society to ensure the hordes and tribes will continue to get along. Isolation will likely breed contempt, distrust, and a certain form of snobbery. Personally, I can’t wait to get back to Twins baseball and Badger football and sit among my fellow man and cheer together. Then drive home in my new Bronco...

 

[Motorpsychology]

This is why I stay with the same Ford dealer I've been with since 2003 and have bought 11 vehicles there, 8 from the same salesman until he retired due to health issues after 22 years at that dealer and 3 from another 17 year salesman. They don't pull any of that stuff and in fact, the salesman does everything now without needing to go to finance. I was looking at stock at a local Jeep dealer and their blurb says something about a required $899 prep fee and rather high doc fee's. I don't want to deal with any of that B S

I live in the same state as @DrPerez007, above, and I sold new and used vehicles, mostly at F-L-M but also at a Pontiac-Oldsmobile-Cadillac-GMC (yes weird, but the Chev-Buick store was a block away, different owner-Still there since 1923, the BOCG long gone) and a Mopar 6pack (back in the AMC days).

I casts me a jaundiced eye on many of the fees, and amounts that he states. Document fees are usually itemized separately from the negotiated part of the transaction for internal purposes-gotta pay the back office people to expedite the 15-20-odd forms that are part of buying or leasing a new vehicle these days (not all of which the customer sees).
The added options were stated always on the purchase agreement, and on a separate window sticker at any of the eleven stores I sold at.
The other "hidden" fees you are free to question before signing, and where I bought my last three new vehicles, I signed a form stating that I was offered but declined disability loan insurance, 3M paint protection (that tape stuff- ish!) etc. They do that to protect themselves from me coming back and suing because I can't pay my loan and claiming that I was never offered any insurance, or I that didn't know about paint protection and now I have rock chips.
Successful stores of any brand are successful because they don't fear their customer base. Here's the product, here's how we can add to your enjoyment and peace of mind owning the vehicle. here is the price we agree to.
Boom.
The dealer where I buy and service my vehicles is the largest volume dealer in Wisconsin, in a town of 14,000.

 

[DrPerez007]

I live in the same state as @DrPerez007, above, and I sold new and used vehicles, mostly at F-L-M but also at a Pontiac-Oldsmobile-Cadillac-GMC (yes weird, but the Chev-Buick store was a block away, different owner-Still there since 1923, the BOCG long gone) and a Mopar 6pack (back in the AMC days).

I casts me a jaundiced eye on many of the fees, and amounts that he states. Document fees are usually itemized separately from the negotiated part of the transaction for internal purposes-gotta pay the back office people to expedite the 15-20-odd forms that are part of buying or leasing a new vehicle these days (not all of which the customer sees).
The added options were stated always on the purchase agreement, and on a separate window sticker at any of the eleven stores I sold at.
The other "hidden" fees you are free to question before signing, and where I bought my last three new vehicles, I signed a form stating that I was offered but declined disability loan insurance, 3M paint protection (that tape stuff- ish!) etc. They do that to protect themselves from me coming back and suing because I can't pay my loan and claiming that I was never offered any insurance, or I that didn't know about paint protection and now I have rock chips.
Successful stores of any brand are successful because they don't fear their customer base. Here's the product, here's how we can add to your enjoyment and peace of mind owning the vehicle. here is the price we agree to.
Boom.
The dealer where I buy and service my vehicles is the largest volume dealer in Wisconsin, in a town of 14,000.

Chris, could not agree with you more, “Here's the product, here's how we can add to your enjoyment and peace of mind owning the vehicle. Here is the price we agree to. Boom.“

With all due respect to you and the other vehicle salespersons out there, my brother, who sold cars at St. Cloud Dodge to put himself thru college in the 1980’s (I know, a different era), told me they had more tricks than Houdini and did whatever it took to get the customer into a new vehicle at the maximum profit. And since this directly related to their sales commissions, it was “no holds barred.” These days, I find a number of dealers have that “add on” tag posted right next to the window sticker and it usually has, at a minimum, the MSRP plus the doc fee. That’s the negotiating starting point, although as you point out, some dealers will only negotiate the MSRP and then add the doc fee on top. Fair enough, although I still think the doc fee is just more profit, so I try to offset it in the MSRP negotiation. If it is something like a modified Jeep, I also expect to see the generally over-priced charges for the lift, wheels, tires, etc. (I always buy them stock and do the mods separately, but I understand that some people like to roll the cost of the vehicle mods into the financing). My preference would be that if you are going to mandate the doc fee, then that is all that is on the “add on” tag. From there, a separate sheet would then spell out the fact that, “We offer the following for your enjoyment and peace of mind...” Then lay out the laundry list of add-ons and options that a dealer is willing to provide, be it paint sealant, window tint, wheel locks, mud flaps, tonneau covers, etc. I just hung up with the dealer in Georgia that laid out all of those fees as part of the vehicle transaction, as if they were included in the MSRP. It is what it is. Either they have a very gullible car-buying population down there and they are waiting for the right sucker to come thru the door or they are not serious about selling the vehicle at this time. Either way, I’m out of that possible deal. And I get the whole ‘fear of litigation’ thing that was corporate America’s most wide-spread virus before COVID-19. When we bought my wife’s last vehicle, she signed in no less than 13 places for a cash deal.

Like I said before, all I am looking for is a straightforward transaction and an honest dealer. Fortunately, my high-volume local Ford dealer is one of those dealers and my salesman (Joe) takes good care of me when I want a Ford. I only wish he sold a few more brands.

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