Planning my Audio Upgrade, does it make sense?

[Sloth]

I’m contemplating an upgrade in mine.

sytem 1- Simple system with a 4 channel amp pushing 100x2 to a 3 way component up front. The other two channels I’d bridge to a sub.

system 2- A 5 channel amp with four channels powering coaxials in the kick and dash. The 5th channel going to a sub.

I’d leave the rear pods as is.

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[DJ1]

Ya that is exactly how I’m feeling lol, I can play around with this and spend all my money experimenting.

Which, funny enough, I just saw your other post @RagnarKon about being able to swap out the dummy sub and amp for real products with a simple switch, and now I’m thinking that might be my play

My previous audio upgraded vehicle was a Chevy Tahoe with a MTX Sledgehammer box and two MTX 10” subs with a 1000w MTX amp. It was crisp and clear, I loved it, but it also consistently set off car alarms, and I don’t want that life anymore lol.

Thats why I was originally thinking of the 12”, because I was worried about going too small. Reading more though, I like the idea of putting an 8” sub in the OEM location and adding an amp there. It would be a more simple swap and a cheaper option, and I think would still provide enough bass.

Sooooo, with that said, here is what I’m thinking for a potential remix of my original:

I have been planning this project with the budget idea of about $2,500. Having looked into this sub delete replacement option, that opened up a lot of my budget, so I wanted to put some of that back into the speakers, and now I think I have the recipe of a very crisp system.

Audio frog 4” dash speakers: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_898GS42/Audiofrog-GS42.html

Focal 6.5” kick panels: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_091ACX165/Focal-ACX-165.html

Audio frog 6.5” SSV pods: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_898GS62/Audiofrog-GS62.html

Kicker 8” Sub in OEM location: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_206CWCS84/Kicker-44CWCS84.html

Kenwood Amp in OEM location: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_113KACM3K1/Kenwood-KAC-M3001.html

Kicker Key 200.4 Amp for non-sub speakers

Do these all match up power values correctly/does this seem like a solid setup?

I hear what everybody is saying about the component speakers, but as you mentioned Ragnar, it seems like more work than I want to do and more than I need out of my system. So I think doing high quality coax speakers and a crisp sub setup would give me enough volume with the top off, but also keep things clean with the top on.

This will be miles better than the stock system. If you want unsolicited opinions, you are putting some good speakers in and powering them with budget amps. It seems to work fine for everyone else, but the speakers you are considering are pretty nice. Also, I would swap your 6.5 Audio Frogs to the front and put the Focals in the back. Unless you want to tune it so you are getting a big back stage and want the meat of your sound coming from behind you. The kick panel is not an ideal spot for good speakers, but it really is the only option and with enough power and some tuning it can sound great.

 

[DJ1]

I’m contemplating an upgrade in mine.

sytem 1- Simple system with a 4 channel amp pushing 100x2 to a 3 way component up front. The other two channels I’d bridge to a sub.

system 2- A 5 channel amp with four channels powering coaxials in the kick and dash. The 5th channel going to a sub.

I’d leave the rear pods as is.

I like option 1, should sound great. In option 2, I don't think you gain anything other than difficulty tuning it. Even if you use a DSP and go fully active, why do you want multiple co-axials?

 

[MuthaBucker]

This will be miles better than the stock system. If you want unsolicited opinions, you are putting some good speakers in and powering them with budget amps. It seems to work fine for everyone else, but the speakers you are considering are pretty nice. Also, I would swap your 6.5 Audio Frogs to the front and put the Focals in the back. Unless you want to tune it so you are getting a big back stage and want the meat of your sound coming from behind you. The kick panel is not an ideal spot for good speakers, but it really is the only option and with enough power and some tuning it can sound great.

That makes sense, any suggestions on alternative amps for that setup?

I also saw Focal has this sub with great reviews. It also seems to be better suited towards smaller enclosures which is ideal for the OEM location.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_091SUBP20S/Focal-P-20-FSE.html

 

[MuthaBucker]

@RagnarKon is it possible to replace the dummy amp with an amp that can power the sub and after market speakers?

ie could I put for example the audio control 5.1300 dsp amp in that OEM dummy location?

 

[Sloth]

I like option 1, should sound great. In option 2, I don't think you gain anything other than difficulty tuning it. Even if you use a DSP and go fully active, why do you want multiple co-axials?

The dual coaxial option was what was suggested by a local shop. I suspect they didn't want to order a 3 way component and would rather sell/install a larger amp. I prefer the simplicity of my option 1.

 

[DJ1]

@RagnarKon is it possible to replace the dummy amp with an amp that can power the sub and after market speakers?

ie could I put for example the audio control 5.1300 dsp amp in that OEM dummy location?

Is this what you mean for the amp location?
https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...-dsp-speakers-and-sub-lots-of-pictures.43856/

Yes, a small minority have gone with something other than the Kicker Key.

 

[DJ1]

The dual coaxial option was what was suggested by a local shop. I suspect they didn't want to order a 3 way component and would rather sell/install a larger amp. I prefer the simplicity of my option 1.

I agree, dropping in co-axials is pretty easy. A 3-way setup would require some thought, fabrication and install expertise.

 

[DJ1]

I've had my Bronco now for two weeks. Just installed the Fusion amp and the 6.75" Kicker sub. Super easy install and it sounds amazing. Still going to replace the dash and pod speakers and call it good. After turning on the sub in Forscan, the battery warning light is staying on. I reset the ACM code and it showed cleared, but after starting, the battery symbol shows up again. Any ideas?

I have no idea. I have deliberately not changed and Forscan settings.

 

[MuthaBucker]

Is this what you mean for the amp location?
https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...-dsp-speakers-and-sub-lots-of-pictures.43856/

Yes, a small minority have gone with something other than the Kicker Key.

So now that I realize I can swap out the dummy amp and sub so easily, I want to go that route and keep things hidden if you will.

So I was thinking I would run the Kicker Key 500.1 for a Focal 8” sub in the OEM location, and then the Key 200.4 in the dash unit for the 6 speakers.

But then that led me back to having two amps, so I was trying to figure out if I could still go with one amp and keep everything hidden. Based on the other posts I’ve seen I don’t think it’s possible.

It does raise another question, how would the two kicker amps interact with each other, specifically with the key dsp function? Would they be able to tune in unison or would they end up competing against each other trying to tune speakers they don’t control?

 

[MuthaBucker]

I guess another question for that would be, if I install the Kicker Key 200.4 in the head unit up front, and swap out the OEM dummy amp, would the kicker key still have some effect on the amp in the back?

Hopefully that’s not a dumb question

 

[BlarneyStoned]

But then that led me back to having two amps, so I was trying to figure out if I could still go with one amp and keep everything hidden. Based on the other posts I’ve seen I don’t think it’s possible.

I'm on a similar mission, except I'm planning on going with an active 3-way front set up. I would prefer to keep everything looking stock and hidden given I have a soft top.

The good news is that many modern amps can handle speaker level input without any external adapters required, so that's at least one fewer piece of gear to install.

If you want to use the stock subwoofer enclosure for a non B&O system, a 6.75" sub will drop right in without any major mods required, and you can get an 8" to fit if you're willing to do some cutting (but the box might be too small for many 8" shallow woofers to perform optimally). Plus it's a ported enclosure, but you can seal it. If you were willing to give up cargo space in the back or install a tailgate sub, then you have all of the stock subwoofer location to put amps & crossovers, but you no longer have a stealth install. Underseat subwoofers are an option too.

A passive stock like system could run on a single 5 channel amp, and something like the Kenwood XM802-5 would fit with room to spare under a seat (and maybe even the B&O amp location on a JL stealthbox), but it doesn't have a DSP built-in. But a DSP might not matter if you don't want to tune the system for better sound that much or the built-in crossovers are all you need. Bonus, the Kenwood IS a marine amp and would be cheaper than the Key 200.4 + 500.1 at $450. Even cheaper if you don't care about the marine rating ($350).

It seems that you need to be willing to compromise on something somewhere to keep a stock looking solution. The biggest amp that would fit under a seat easily is about 10x6x2. If you regularly have back seat passengers they might end up with their feet on the end of the amp or its wiring at that size though. The non B&O subwoofer enclosure only has space for an amp that's about 6x4x2, although you could probably fab something to go a bit larger. The B&O enclosure has a larger amp mounting area, but I haven't been able to nail down exactly how big (I'm guessing around 8x6x2).

However, you can easily mount a Key 200.4 under the steering column and a 500.1 above the glove box or possibly with the stock non-B&0 sub enclosure with a custom mounting board. Or under the seats one on each side (stinger sells premade mounting brackets).

I've seen where some places have installed an amp to the underside of the rear seats (not on the floor, but to the seat frame). That would pretty much allow you to mount just about any size amp you could need for a single box solution. I'm not sure long term of this solution if you have rear seat passengers frequently (there's a lot of flex to those seat springs) or if you fold the rear seats down a ,ot. Mounting to the floor under the seats would prevent ever being able to fold them from what I can tell.

I can find 8 and 10 channel DSP amps that might fit under a seat but wouldn't be able to drive a sub, but none of them are marine grade and I have wash-out flooring for a reason. Nevermind that most of these amps are in the $1400+ price range. Either way it leads back to needing 2 amps for a fully active system.

mObridge's K2 A2B amp might be the unicorn solution 1 amp & DSP active solution, but if you don't have Lux (B&O) it would mean having to swap the ACM (radio) for one that would have come with Lux, Forscan programming and possibly might require other wiring as well (e.g. maybe CANbus). Assuming a used ACM swap ($200-300), this still ends up being around a $2000 solution on top of everything else, but you'd gain HD Radio at least.

At this point I'm leaning towards just having any large amps installed in the cargo area because I want to level the floor with the rear seats anyway, so the amps could go under the raised area and still look stealth.

It does raise another question, how would the two kicker amps interact with each other, specifically with the key dsp function?

When you tune each amplifier, you need to disable the output from the other speakers that are not on that amplifier, so you'd disable the sub amp (remove the fuse) and tune the 200.4, then remove the 200.4 fuse and tune the 500.1.

 

[Combustion_King]

My advice, SOUND MAT EVERYTHING, when you have panels off, speakers out etc. I went as far as reaching down the inside wheel well space when i had my rear panels off.

it makes a road noise difference as well as sound difference.

 

[RagnarKon]

@RagnarKon is it possible to replace the dummy amp with an amp that can power the sub and after market speakers?

ie could I put for example the audio control 5.1300 dsp amp in that OEM dummy location?

Yes, but on the base audio system the warning harness for all the speakers is in the front of the vehicle, while the dummy amp for the subwoofer is in the rear. So you'd have to build and run a custom wiring harness that goes between the front and rear of the vehicle.

 

[MuthaBucker]

Yes, but on the base audio system the warning harness for all the speakers is in the front of the vehicle, while the dummy amp for the subwoofer is in the rear. So you'd have to build and run a custom wiring harness that goes between the front and rear of the vehicle.

Ok got it, so if I’m using the OEM location, it will be easiest to do a two amp setup. I appreciate all the help, I think I have finally landed on my blueprint!

The ole ADD brain really took over on this brainstorm, but I think I finally herded all my mental cats into one pasture here.

When I first set out on this project, it was about creating a fuller, more high quality sound in the Bronco. Then I went all million dollar man wanting to go bigger, better, stronger, and ended up with all kinds of ideas. Finally, my illusions of grandeur wore off, and here’s what I’m thinking:

I have the 23, sub delete base system

I’m going to do the simple swap of the dummy amp and sub for the fusion amp and the Kicker 6.75” sub (4 ohms). This requires minimum effort but supplies me with bass and a fuller sound.

I’m still doing the SSV pods, and putting these audio frog 6” coax speakers in them https://www.crutchfield.com/p_898GS62/Audiofrog-GS62.html

For the front kick panels, I’m going with these Focal coax speakers https://www.crutchfield.com/p_091ACX165/Focal-ACX-165.html

And for the front dash location, I’m going with these audiofrog 4” coax https://www.crutchfield.com/p_898GS42/Audiofrog-GS42.html?tp=102

I know going components will probably lead to better sound, but in the interest of keeping it simple, I’m going with high quality coax.

Whenever I can find one, I will then add the kicker key 200.4 to power the speakers, and install that under the dash using the PnP kit. I’ve seen other videos where people install and hide the amp up there, again maintaining the hidden system.

Then wrap it all up with some ForScan wizardry courtesy of your sacred texts @RagnarKon to make sure everything operates properly.

In my mind, this setup gives me a drastically elevated system with little effort and minimal intrusion to the vehicle itself.

But my mind is not always to be trusted, so I’d love to hear opinions lol

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