PSA video for EcoBoost engine owners: Why You Never Run Extended Oil Change Intervals -- Agree or Disagree?

[Lcubed]

I skimmed the responses and not one asked the question…
Why
Why is the oil that dirty in the first place so quickly?


Mongo needs to know

head gasket blown at 60,001 miles
finally addressed at 239,999 miles

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[scotman623]

I just watched this video this morning, I change my oil and filter every 5000 miles.. My Bronco gets lots of hard off road use, dust, low gear high RPM and it gets hotter than just normal street miles.. Inexpensive piece of mind for myself… I may even start to change at 3500 during the summer months, More off road use.. Full synthetic of course with a quality oil filter.

 

[timhood]

For every single component in a vehicle, a design life is chosen - years, miles, rotations, power cycles. The component and manufacturing process are designed so that 99.999% of components make it to that lifespan. This isn't done accidentally, haphazardly, or by any amount of chance. They do not just overbuild it and hope for the best.

What lifespan do you believe Ford selects for its components? Hint - the longest warranty they'll offer is 8 years/150,000 miles. Any component failing sooner than that is a miscalculation and anything lasting longer than that is a pleasant surprise.



In the first 60,000 miles, you're probably more likely to incur damage due to a ham-fisted tech messing up an oil change than you are running the same oil for 10,000 instead of 5,000 miles. I'd say frequent oil changes are a HIGHER risk if you're taking it to a shop.



What's "reliability?" Most places only track reliability through the first five years. What metrics out there track reliability further than that, and also publish results in a way that affects the public's buying decisions?



Now you're bumping into my second point - lower cost of ownership matters.

My point is simply that auto manufacturers have to be competitive and designing components to last only as long as a warranty is not competitive. Customers have expectations that vehicles last well past a warranty period without incurring repairs that are unjustified based on a vehicle's worth.

 

[DefNotBuddyLee]

This. had a mechanical failure in my VW at 150k miles (timing chain tensioner failure) and for a car that had 150k, and did 15+ track days in its life, with 7500 mile interval oil changes, this is what the top end looked like when I pulled it all apart:

I read VW and timing chain tensioner failure and immediately went to 2.0 turbo trauma. Did it get replaced at 100k and break at 150k, or did the original survive to 150k?

 

[bytheway]

I skimmed the responses and not one asked the question…
Why
Why is the oil that dirty in the first place so quickly?

Is it 87 fuel?
Is the lack of a catch can
Is it blow by
Is it from towing constantly
Is it moisture in the oil

Just bending over and dropping trow changing oil wether you need it or not is not the real answer.

or just the status quo of 1.5 sigma reliability by Ford designed to ensure obsolescence?

Can a Real Ford rep on this form answer these questions? With no stipulations?

Mongo needs to know

I blame direct injection. My wife's Palisade is N/A 3.8L GDI V6 and it's oil looks black as a diesel after 4-5k miles. Port injection helps clean the valves on the 2.7L ecoboost but the oil looks about the same.

For what it's worth, I'm with FTM on 5k oil changes. Cheap insurance for a happy engine.

 

[Laminar]

My point is simply that auto manufacturers have to be competitive and designing components to last only as long as a warranty is not competitive. Customers have expectations that vehicles last well past a warranty period without incurring repairs that are unjustified based on a vehicle's worth.

Is this conjecture or do you have marketing data to share?

 

[eqlol]

I used to take my rubicon whenever the life was at 10% to valvoline... they screwed it up once, cost me 900 in repairs because they overfilled the oil and popped gaskets.

Now that I want to be careful after that experience, probably taking it to the dealer for that. I was going to do the same wait until 10% oil life to schedule, but after reading this thread lol

 

[timhood]

Is this conjecture or do you have marketing data to share?

It's the reality of the market today. It has nothing to do with marketing data. I don't need to take a survey of vehicle owners to know their response to these questions: Do you expect your vehicle to last only as long as its warranty? Would you find it acceptable if your vehicle needed expensive repair work shortly after the warranty expired? When you hear about your neighbor's vehicle lasting for 200,000 or 300,000 miles, would you find it acceptable that your new vehicle lasted only 50-60,000 miles before engine failure or other substantial repairs were needed?

I'm not sure why we're going down this rabbit hole. This sounds like a hill you're prepared to die on. I think I've made my point. The engineering is done to be 1) competitive, 2) as cost-effective as possible, and 3) sometimes mistakes are made and lessons are learned, but that doesn't mean that the design and manufacture was deliberately intended to create a part that lasts only as long as the financial liability no longer applies.

 

[Laminar]

It's the reality of the market today. It has nothing to do with marketing data. I don't need to take a survey of vehicle owners to know their response to these questions: Do you expect your vehicle to last only as long as its warranty? Would you find it acceptable if your vehicle needed expensive repair work shortly after the warranty expired? When you hear about your neighbor's vehicle lasting for 200,000 or 300,000 miles, would you find it acceptable that your new vehicle lasted only 50-60,000 miles before engine failure or other substantial repairs were needed?

Two issues - #1, Ford only needs to attract the kind of people that buy brand new cars. They don't care a single bit about used car buyers. The closest they get to caring about used car pricing is maintaining value over the first three years so they can charge higher lease rates. #2, you're asking people hypothetical questions. People are notoriously inaccurate about how they believe they'd act in hypothetical situations.

The average new car buyer holds on to their car for 8.4 years, or right around 100,000 miles. Here's a question to ask:
1. If the second owner of the car you originally bought brand new experienced a significant repair expense, would that dissuade you from purchasing the same brand of vehicle? Note: You've already gotten rid of the failed vehicle and you have no contact with the current owner of the vehicle and you'd have no way of knowing that your vehicle incurred a repair expense.

No one ever said anything about engines failing at 60,000 miles. A component designed for a 99.999% chance of life past 100,000 miles doesn't mean a 100% chance of failure immediately after that. The automakers best at designing for low failure rates during warranty are consequently the best at ending up with long-term longevity (see: Toyota, Honda).

The engineering is done to be 1) competitive, 2) as cost-effective as possible

It seems like you're hesitant to put numbers to this - if you're optimizing for competitiveness and cost-effectiveness, then you have to pick a design lifespan. If your piston is going to go up and down the bore 5,000,000 times in its expected lifespan but you spent an extra $30 per engine designing a piston that will last for 10,000,000 cycles, you're not competitive or cost-effective.

So again - what lifespan does Ford choose when designing vehicles?

but that doesn't mean that the design and manufacture was deliberately intended to create a part that lasts only as long as the financial liability no longer applies.

Okay, so it looks like you were confused about that. See my clarification above about how part life through the warranty period =/= part designed to only last through the warranty period.

 

[HotdogThud]

I read VW and timing chain tensioner failure and immediately went to 2.0 turbo trauma. Did it get replaced at 100k and break at 150k, or did the original survive to 150k?

The original made it to 150k. I grabbed a new engine, swapped in the updated part and have been rocking it for 20k miles so far.

 

[gerby151]

I have had 3 Ford Escapes one with the 2.0 Eco Boost and the other 2 with the anemic 1.5 L Eco Boost. Changed oil when oil index tells me to, which is around 10K miles. The first two (2012 & 2018) went 200K miles with no issues and the 2021 I have now has 56K and still going strong. Mostly highway miles but a lot of idling with AC or Heat on depending on time of year. So far I am changing the Bronco @ 7500K and have no plans to change that interval.

 

[F OR D]

have had tons of turbos, ford and others. never an issue just following common sense and/or the intelligent oil life monitoring notification. i mean 5-7.5k are pretty standard for an oem synthetic. only variant is the first change which is probably unnecessary too with today's manufacturing but whatever.

any other interval, amsoil, etc. is just upselling you. no problem with it but i'll stick with engineering, science, and keep the extra money in my pocket personally.

for those that think there's planned obsolescence by lying to customers ford would be out of business if that was the case. there is real data on ecoboosts lasting over 200k consistently following oem specs. overall reliability and maintenance reports matter to manufactures. i'm also certain any mechanic would love to recommend and sell you an oil change at 3k, they did for decades after modern engines/synthetic, and it worked.

in the end follow specs or do it earlier if that makes you happy.

 

[SlpybearTX]

More like Double D’s my guy what is the beef sir?

8D is a method for systemically solving problems, used in mfg and other industries for quality issues among others. I thought you might have some background in that and was throwing a compliment your way.

 

[BroncoT]

There’s a whole lot of BS in this thread. I analyzed engines after different duty cycles with different oils in a lab, as an engine engineer. By far the #1 factor is driving conditions, once you rule out conventional oil. If you drive highway speeds for 15+ minutes often (like 3-5 days a week), save yourself some money and stick with Ford recommendations. You’d be tossing pretty oil. If you drive around town mostly and especially with lots of off-roading, every 5k is a good idea.

The reason is heat. When engine components regularly heat up, they burn off buildup. Clean and smooth. Lots of low RPM stop and go, no heat, buildup and eventually deposits.

This was pre-eco boost, so maybe some new awful dynamic is at play. I doubt it though and boosting should help build heat faster and I suspect Ford is running hotter in general (upgraded components, higher nickel alloys, etc).

Ford cares about durability. Suggesting otherwise is silly.

 

[TheGriffin1313]

I blame direct injection. My wife's Palisade is N/A 3.8L GDI V6 and it's oil looks black as a diesel after 4-5k miles. Port injection helps clean the valves on the 2.7L ecoboost but the oil looks about the same.

For what it's worth, I'm with FTM on 5k oil changes. Cheap insurance for a happy engine.

Ya 5k is the best unless its a towing or something. The video give the impression that we need to change it at 3k

8D is a method for systemically solving problems, used in mfg and other industries for quality issues among others. I thought you might have some background in that and was throwing a compliment your way.

I have heard and trained in S7, 8D must be a level I need to reach then thank you.
Those turbo oil filters should be part of a service interval. Or at least inspection of them.

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