Re-gear of rear differential for base + 33" tire upgrade

Apples

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The open differential ring gears are welded to the differential.
This may just be a terminology thing but there's no way the ring gear is welded to the differential. It may be welded to the CARRIER which keeps the ring gear and spider gears lined up inside the diff. But that entire assembly could be removed and replaced. Hell, looks like ARB already has an air locker (replaces the carrier) for the m210 and m220. May just need to wait for them to develop an install kit for the Bronco.

Edit: Doesn't look like there's an air locker for the m190 ... yet ....





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This may just be a terminology thing but there's no way the ring gear is welded to the differential. It may be welded to the CARRIER which keeps the ring gear and spider gears lined up inside the diff. But that entire assembly could be removed and replaced. Hell, looks like ARB already has an air locker (replaces the carrier) for the m210 and m220. May just need to wait for them to develop an install kit for the Bronco.

Edit: Doesn't look like there's an air locker for the m190 ... yet ....
Very true.
The *carrier* is the correct term.
Got fast and loose there. 🙃

Good news, ARB has a m190 locker coming "soon".
 

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Very true.
The *carrier* is the correct term.
Got fast and loose there. 🙃

Good news, ARB has a m190 locker coming "soon".

How does the M190 compare to an old Dana 30 or 44? Do you really want to lock a 190? Can it handle the stress?
For that matter, where does the M210 fit in that line up?

I don't know, but having had to swap out D30's for D44's or even Dana 60's on EB's..... I'm erring on the side of caution and going Squatch for the M210.
 

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How does the M190 compare to an old Dana 30 or 44? Do you really want to lock a 190? Can it handle the stress?
For that matter, where does the M210 fit in that line up?

I don't know, but having had to swap out D30's for D44's or even Dana 60's on EB's..... I'm erring on the side of caution and going Squatch for the M210.
I mean, locking a front differential on an IFS setup is usually a recipe for disaster. But not because of the diff. You're way more likely to snap CVs all day long before you do anything to the differential.
 

HoosierDaddy

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I mean, locking a front differential on an IFS setup is usually a recipe for disaster. But not because of the diff. You're way more likely to snap CVs all day long before you do anything to the differential.
Fuses. lol

My concern just comes from seeing unlocked Dana 30's grenade in all kinds of different ways just trying to turn 33's.
Ring gears broke, pinion gears chipping or otherwise self destructing, spider gears shattering. Just put a load on it in reverse....POW!

Everybody talking about home built Squatch's and I cringe at the thought. There's a reason the largest tire they put on the 190 is 32" ....with an open carrier at that. They tech reps even stated that, 32" max.

There's going to be some pissed off customers on the warranty hotline.
New CEO has stated that cutting warranty costs is going to have to be a big concern moving forward.... I only hope he means through better engineering.

It's far easier, cheaper and safer(warranty-wise) to just get the Squatch and be done with it.
 

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Cutting warranty costs=screw the technicians(ask me how i know)
 

Apples

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Fuses. lol

My concern just comes from seeing unlocked Dana 30's grenade in all kinds of different ways just trying to turn 33's.
Ring gears broke, pinion gears chipping or otherwise self destructing, spider gears shattering. Just put a load on it in reverse....POW!

Everybody talking about home built Squatch's and I cringe at the thought. There's a reason the largest tire they put on the 190 is 32" ....with an open carrier at that. They tech reps even stated that, 32" max.

There's going to be some pissed off customers on the warranty hotline.
New CEO has stated that cutting warranty costs is going to have to be a big concern moving forward.... I only hope he means through better engineering.

It's far easier, cheaper and safer(warranty-wise) to just get the Squatch and be done with it.
In a solid front axle, the gears are the weak link. In an IFS, the CVs are the weak link. I might concede the point if you were talking about trying to slap 37s on it. Even then, you'd have to be throttle happy, spinning the tires to get over every obstacle. And you're far more likely to snap CV after CV doing that.
 

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Trying not to go overkill on what will be a daily driver/family adventure vehicle.
This will be my daily driver too and it just seems easier and cheaper to go sasquatch. Plus the fact that you can bounce back and forth between 33" and 35" tires if you change your mind on tires at any point.
 

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I was hoping to put a LSD in the rear, it would be ideal on & off road. The welded ring gear could be an obstacle to the plan.
Lockers aren't meant for street use..... for doing burnouts and that kind of fun stuff, a LSD would be preferred. I'd like to take the Bronc down the 1/4 mile a few times too.
 

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How does the M190 compare to an old Dana 30 or 44? Do you really want to lock a 190? Can it handle the stress?
For that matter, where does the M210 fit in that line up?

I don't know, but having had to swap out D30's for D44's or even Dana 60's on EB's..... I'm erring on the side of caution and going Squatch for the M210.
The new Advantek D30 and D44 should of been given new designations.
Comparing them to the older axles is like directly comparing a G6 Bronco to a EB, because they share a name too.

That said, the M190's center differential is actually rated by Dana as being stronger than the new Jeep D44.
The M210 is significantly stronger.
The pinion teeth of the M190 and M210 engage the ring gear closer to the center of the gear.
The D44 and D30 have the pinion closer to the top, for driveshaft clearance.
This puts more deflection stress on the D30/44 pinion.

Also, the ring gears use an new convex curved tooth shape, that increases the % of ring gear and pinion tooth contact, while reducing friction.

As @Apples has said, the CV joints are going to be the weak link in the front axle.

The good news is that the Ford engineers made the Sasquatch CV size the default half shaft for all Broncos.
Also, there is only one half shaft.
It is interchangeable L/R, Base to Wildtrack.

Finally, Ford has stated that the Bronco is easily lifted. Just like the Wrangler.
Ford Dealers have watched Jeep Dealers get fat and happy putting MOPAR warrenty approved 2" lifts and 37" tires on Wranglers.
Either straight off the showroom floor, or as a used sale still under warranty.

Ford has directly stated that Bronco dealers will be able to get in on this action.
Big money is at stake.

All of this means that the Bronco hard parts will handle 37" tires.
Just add lift and rubber.

M190 Broncos will be like D30 Wranglers. 35" if you are lightfooted on the trail. 37" if it's a mall crawler.

M210 +37" will be gtg for the lightfooted.
We don't know yet if the 40" tires will be usable as a mall crawler without heavy modifications to things like the ball joints and steering.
Probably not. The 40" donuts are very heavy.
 

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Yeah, the idea of spending the money to change gearing just to go up to a 33" tire is a little extreme. Chances are you would never know the difference, no matter what gears are installed unless you start listening to internet forums. End of the day, it would be way more expensive than just getting a different model or even going full Sasquatch.

While not ideal, you'll never notice.
 
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Yeah, the idea of spending the money to change gearing just to go up to a 33" tire is a little extreme. Chances are you would never know the difference, no matter what gears are installed unless you start listening to internet forums. End of the day, it would be way more expensive than just getting a different model or even going full Sasquatch.

While not ideal, you'll never notice.
That's what I suspected all along. The BB and OBX both come standard with 3.73 gears and 32" tires so I figured it probably wasn't an issue unless I wanted to go hardcore rock-crawling (which I don't, at least not in this rig).
 

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The new Advantek D30 and D44 should of been given new designations.
Comparing them to the older axles is like directly comparing a G6 Bronco to a EB, because they share a name too.

That said, the M190's center differential is actually rated by Dana as being stronger than the new Jeep D44.
The M210 is significantly stronger.
The pinion teeth of the M190 and M210 engage the ring gear closer to the center of the gear.
The D44 and D30 have the pinion closer to the top, for driveshaft clearance.
This puts more deflection stress on the D30/44 pinion.

Also, the ring gears use an new convex curved tooth shape, that increases the % of ring gear and pinion tooth contact, while reducing friction.

As @Apples has said, the CV joints are going to be the weak link in the front axle.

The good news is that the Ford engineers made the Sasquatch CV size the default half shaft for all Broncos.
Also, there is only one half shaft.
It is interchangeable L/R, Base to Wildtrack.

Finally, Ford has stated that the Bronco is easily lifted. Just like the Wrangler.
Ford Dealers have watched Jeep Dealers get fat and happy putting MOPAR warrenty approved 2" lifts and 37" tires on Wranglers.
Either straight off the showroom floor, or as a used sale still under warranty.

Ford has directly stated that Bronco dealers will be able to get in on this action.
Big money is at stake.

All of this means that the Bronco hard parts will handle 37" tires.
Just add lift and rubber.

M190 Broncos will be like D30 Wranglers. 35" if you are lightfooted on the trail. 37" if it's a mall crawler.

M210 +37" will be gtg for the lightfooted.
We don't know yet if the 40" tires will be usable as a mall crawler without heavy modifications to things like the ball joints and steering.
Probably not. The 40" donuts are very heavy.
Outstanding reply!!!! Exactly the tech/knowledge I was hoping for.
Thanks a ton!
 

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Save the money, use it towards a BB trim and opt for the 4.27 w/ locker.
For about the same price you can add the Squatch to the Base and gain the advanced auto 4x4 and front locker. Or add $1k and go with Black Diamond.

I priced a 2dr Basesquatch with 2.7 auto vs Big Bend with rear locker vs Black Diamond. All are $39k-$41k.
BaseSquatch gains the front locker, adv auto 4x4, and 35's,
Big Bend loses those Squatch items,
Black Diamond can have the adv auto 4x4 but loses the front locker and 35's.

Comparing differences between tire diameters or gear ratios and their effect on speed/rpm is simple..... just calculate the % difference:
30" tires to 33" tires = +10%
30" to 35" = +16.7%
3.73 to 4.27 gears = +14.5%
3.73 to 4.7 = +26%

With a 10 speed auto, there's likely a perfect gear for street driving speeds. The advantage to the steeper (4.7) gears is the low speed off roading.
There will also be a difference at the other end..... high speed highway driving in the top overdrive gear.
In between those extremes, you aren't likely to notice a difference.
 

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