Spy Video, Underbody / Suspension and Interior Closeups of 2021 Bronco Prototype!

[wjfawb0 [hacked account]]

The “enthusiasts” include over landing fans and not just “extreme” rock crawlers.
Serious question that I know no one will truly be able to answer. What % of rubicon owners actually live within a reasonable (1 hour or less) distance from a trail that requires a Rubicon?

I live within 30-45 minutes of all sorts of rock crawling opportunities. I'm probably a rare consumer. I actually bought my $30k rubicon to rock crawl and offroad. I don't like removeable tops. I don't mind rock rashing aluminum wheels when I have to.

Most of my offroad friends sold their wranglers to pursue their kids' sports and other things. So I go mostly alone now. I do the same thing hiking and motorcycle riding. Lots of folks like driving forest service roads, but not many want to drag their skids, diffs, and shock mounts over rocks. I've welded 1/4" plate steel to my rear lower shock/control arm mounts and lower front control arm mounts. I also changed out my front and rear diff covers to 3/8" steel for rock bashing.

I waited until I was 35ish to buy the 2 door wrangler I always wanted. Manual windows, manual locks, manual transmission, manual transfer case, and even a key to go in an ignition cylinder. It's awesome. I figure the bronco will have an electronically controlled transfer case, push button start, and power everything.

This is the family friendly offroading:

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[Stampede.Offroad]

So at what point will you stop telling us how much you hate it and how oh so terribly Ford has messed everything up?

Do you think Ford will change anything if everyone rolls over and pretends to be happy with whatever the bean counters approved?

 

[Nickp]

I think the folks entertaining the idea that a removable roof is 'THE' characteristic that will make the difference in sales or survival of the Bronco are exercising even more cognitive dissonance that the ones still expecting Ford to design another chassis with a SFA. All you have to do is look at Ford's advertising campaign to see what they think is important ...

Looking at all the media we're received from Ford this year, and everyone has agreed so far that the pictures we've seen since the Frankenranger video are completely staged by Ford, are almost entirely focused on portraying and displaying the Bronco's off road capability. In the video Humpty Dumpty wasn't showing off an open air experience of adventure, it was feebly attempting to show us the mule's off road chops. The first Ford photoshoot was displaying the minivan Bronco in a 'wild woodsy off road environment' giving us a look at basic proportions. The second photoshoot was loaded with pictures showing us the parts and angles etc that were important for gauging the Bronco's off road capability, and only one "oh and by the way, before we forget, the roof does come off" picture.

The language and imagery all the way back to when we first started hearing about the Bronco has been about off road capability, because that is what appeals to buyers, even if they have no intention of pushing the vehicle to those limits. Just like sports cars are sold en masse based on power and handling characteristics even though the vast majority of owners will never take it to a track and rarely go more than 10mph over the speed limit in a straight line on the highway -- so the people buying a Bronco based on its off road ability even though they won't use any more of it than is needed to drive over a curb at the mall will fit right in.

The Wrangler community is no different, there are many conversations that bring up the topic of "why do so many Wrangler buyers never take the top down/off" ... Do you really think vast numbers of people were really so swayed, not by off road capability, but by toplessness, that they spend a bunch of extra money and put up with extra bumps and noises just to have a top they could remove in minutes, in any location, at any time of their choosing, but never do?

Casuals and the general public don't need to spend time to understand why X is better than Y when making a purchasing decision, all they have to do is look at the tiny group of enthusiasts who will push the limits of the vehicle to do the boring "figuring stuff out" part for them. For every YouTuber or forum member there are a hundred or more casual passers by and observers who just glean the jist of the long boring conversations. If the second and third owners of Broncos who aren't paying for new car smell can't build one up on the cheap to do the extreme, the resale value won't exist, and the image of capability won't either.

Sir this is a wendy’s

 

[Stampede.Offroad]

...
Let us enjoy things, go be a grumpy ass somewhere else...

The "go away if you don't agree with me" arguments are as convincing as ever.

 

[bbostic5]

Do you think Ford will change anything if everyone rolls over and pretends to be happy with whatever the bean counters approved?

As you said either earlier in this thread or another thread, we are too late in the game for them to change anything at this point. At least with anything that isn't a Raptor/Rock Monster/Hardcore variant. What we are seeing is likely what we are getting.

 

[BroncoBuyer]

The “enthusiasts” include over landing fans and not just “extreme” rock crawlers.
Serious question that I know no one will truly be able to answer. What % of rubicon owners actually live within a reasonable (1 hour or less) distance from a trail that requires a Rubicon?

I’m not totally sure I know what you mean by “requires a Rubicon”. I’ve never heard of that before.
I’ll have to assume you meant trails where a Rubicon would be a good vehicle to have for it.
If you were standing in the middle of Phoenix, you could point in any direction and there’s a great off road rock crawling type trail within an hour or so.
My wife and I like to explore trails. We have taken many vehicles rock crawling over the years. I don’t plan on buying a Bronco as only a commuter, but if you were to do the math that’s naturally 95% of what it will be used for. If they ever change the work week from 5 days off to 2 days at work, that percentage would change. Bottom line, that thing better have some serious trail capability as promised or else I’m out.

Another note, roof will never come off. Couldn’t care if they welded it on at the factory. The whole “roof is the only reason people will buy the Bronco” argument is insanity. I see roofs off of wranglers about as much as I see rock gouges in the rims or rock damage on the rock rails.
If I wanted my hair blown around, sun burned face and a bunch of noise I’d take my boat out instead.

 

[Corsair]

I

Right? It's insane the way his demeanor has done a complete 180 to the point of delusion since the BroncoR came out and showed him that he'll only be able to drive over medium sized pebbles rather than large pebbles. He used to be a likable figure on this forum, but I know I'm not the only one getting tired of seeing the BS spewed all over the place

Let us enjoy things, go be a grumpy ass somewhere else... like maybe a JL forum, since that's really what you want

I appreciate having a different point of view being given. Helps keeps things in perspective.

 

[Carolina Jim]

The whole “roof is the only reason people will buy the Bronco” argument is insanity

What's the rumor mill have to say about avail of a fixed integral roof? That'd be my preference as well

 

[JimmyDean]

The "go away if you don't agree with me" arguments are as convincing as ever.

Stamp, you know what I find kinda funny though. Those who are against us and our desire for a SFA Bronco, are claiming that the reason is because the bronco is being aimed and overlanding.

And yet, the most common overlander I see, the most popular if you visit any discussion or meeting of overlanders, any list you look up, is the Wrangler.

and why, when it comes down to it? Because of the SFA and the aftermarket. It provides a more reliable and capable platform. Yeah, it may not be as cushy of a ride for someone used to driving a desk, but it is also less likely to leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Stampede.Offroad]

...
Casuals and the general public don't need to spend time to understand why X is better than Y when making a purchasing decision, all they have to do is look at the tiny group of enthusiasts who will push the limits of the vehicle to do the boring "figuring stuff out" part for them. For every YouTuber or forum member there are a hundred or more casual passers by and observers who just glean the jist of the long boring conversations. ...

This is all so wrong

Ford isn't showing off the teaser videos to appeal to the masses...The general public will start to care when they see a Bronco rolling down the street with its top and doors removed and thinks "man, that looks cool".

Clearly you didn't bother to read it because I said the same thing.

I know you're desperate to disagree with everything I say and try to discredit me, because you want to think of me as "the enemy" or your nemesiss or whatever, but come on, try harder.

 

[Streetfish]

I think the folks entertaining the idea that a removable roof is 'THE' characteristic that will make the difference in sales or survival of the Bronco are exercising even more cognitive dissonance that the ones still expecting Ford to design another chassis with a SFA. All you have to do is look at Ford's advertising campaign to see what they think is important ...

Looking at all the media we're received from Ford this year, and everyone has agreed so far that the pictures we've seen since the Frankenranger video are completely staged by Ford, are almost entirely focused on portraying and displaying the Bronco's off road capability. In the video Humpty Dumpty wasn't showing off an open air experience of adventure, it was feebly attempting to show us the mule's off road chops. The first Ford photoshoot was displaying the minivan Bronco in a 'wild woodsy off road environment' giving us a look at basic proportions. The second photoshoot was loaded with pictures showing us the parts and angles etc that were important for gauging the Bronco's off road capability, and only one "oh and by the way, before we forget, the roof does come off" picture.

The language and imagery all the way back to when we first started hearing about the Bronco has been about off road capability, because that is what appeals to buyers, even if they have no intention of pushing the vehicle to those limits. Just like sports cars are sold en masse based on power and handling characteristics even though the vast majority of owners will never take it to a track and rarely go more than 10mph over the speed limit in a straight line on the highway -- so the people buying a Bronco based on its off road ability even though they won't use any more of it than is needed to drive over a curb at the mall will fit right in.

The Wrangler community is no different, there are many conversations that bring up the topic of "why do so many Wrangler buyers never take the top down/off" ... Do you really think vast numbers of people were really so swayed, not by off road capability, but by toplessness, that they spend a bunch of extra money and put up with extra bumps and noises just to have a top they could remove in minutes, in any location, at any time of their choosing, but never do?

Casuals and the general public don't need to spend time to understand why X is better than Y when making a purchasing decision, all they have to do is look at the tiny group of enthusiasts who will push the limits of the vehicle to do the boring "figuring stuff out" part for them. For every YouTuber or forum member there are a hundred or more casual passers by and observers who just glean the jist of the long boring conversations. If the second and third owners of Broncos who aren't paying for new car smell can't build one up on the cheap to do the extreme, the resale value won't exist, and the image of capability won't either.

Repeating what I said earlier but Ford is benchmarking the competition, including Jeep. Just because it doesn't have a SFA doesn't mean that it won't be as capable as stock Jeep when you compare trim vs trim, ground clearance/approach/departure/break over/wheel travel benchmarks. The best bronco will probably also be able to do the Rubicon trail in stock form. These are likely the goals they are setting, not how easy it is to modify even further or what a lifted bronco can do vs a lifted Jeep.

 

[Dirty Bronco]

I’m not totally sure I know what you mean by “requires a Rubicon”. I’ve never heard of that before.
I’ll have to assume you meant trails where a Rubicon would be a good vehicle to have for it.
If you were standing in the middle of Phoenix, you could point in any direction and there’s a great off road rock crawling type trail within an hour or so.
My wife and I like to explore trails. We have taken many vehicles rock crawling over the years. I don’t plan on buying a Bronco as only a commuter, but if you were to do the math that’s naturally 95% of what it will be used for. If they ever change the work week from 5 days off to 2 days at work, that percentage would change.

Another note, roof will never come off. Couldn’t care if they welded it on at the factory. The whole “roof is the only reason people will buy the Bronco” argument is insanity. I see roofs off of wranglers about as much as I see rock gouges in the rims or rock damage on the rock rails.
If I wanted my hair blown around, sun burned face and a bunch of noise I’d take my boat out instead.

What i meant was on off-road trail that requires a stock rubicon or heavily modified stock wrangler in order to navigate. If the Bronco comes out with only IFS but a capable one, I understand there are limits to what it can do when compared to a SFA. My question was more so... how many people actually have a Wrangler capable going places we are assuming the Bronco can’t and how many of them ACTUALLY do just that.

Also, I understand that there are people that are extreme rock crawlers. Naturally a forum like this is going to attract plenty of those people. The average fan isn’t spending their free time everyday reading and posting.

Side note: I love Phoenix. Spent 2013-2015 in the Tempe/Scottsdale area. Had a 2 door Rubicon at the time. Left the top of for months on end and would hit the trails on the weekend from time to time. I’m jealous, I wish I was still out there.

 

[Streetfish]

Stamp, you know what I find kinda funny though. Those who are against us and our desire for a SFA Bronco, are claiming that the reason is because the bronco is being aimed and overlanding.

And yet, the most common overlander I see, the most popular if you visit any discussion or meeting of overlanders, any list you look up, is the Wrangler.

and why, when it comes down to it? Because of the SFA and the aftermarket. It provides a more reliable and capable platform. Yeah, it may not be as cushy of a ride for someone used to driving a desk, but it is also less likely to leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere.

Not so sure about that. Jeeps would certainly be popular and maybe if you are only looking at the USA but I think Toyotas are probably more popular globally: 4runner, Tacoma's, land cruisers (70 series and Prada). They can hold more gear and are more reliable than a wrangler

 

[Lucas718]

Stamp, you know what I find kinda funny though. Those who are against us and our desire for a SFA Bronco, are claiming that the reason is because the bronco is being aimed and overlanding.

And yet, the most common overlander I see, the most popular if you visit any discussion or meeting of overlanders, any list you look up, is the Wrangler.

and why, when it comes down to it? Because of the SFA and the aftermarket. It provides a more reliable and capable platform. Yeah, it may not be as cushy of a ride for someone used to driving a desk, but it is also less likely to leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere.

And yet my ‘08 Wrangler remains the only vehicle in my 35 years of driving that ever actually did leave me stranded. They like to sell the image of it being a rugged vehicle, but I found them to be pretty fragile.

 

[Nickp]

i think the only off-road vehicle that will sell well is as follows:

1. Naturally aspirated V6 base engine

2. crank and manual window options

3. Solid front and rear axles

4. Round, 7” headlights

5. Removable roof that’s heavier than shit

6. An interior that can be hosed out

7. Retro styling to a T making it indistinguishable from prior generations to the untrained eye

8. A Jeep logo; wait

Oh yeah everyone bitching and complaining that the Bronco won’t be an exact copy of a Jeep but with a Ford badge. That’s not what we’re getting. If that’s what you really want I’m sure you could get the dealership to put some on your Jeep for a small fee or you can even get some gorilla glue and do it yourself.

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