Spy Video, Underbody / Suspension and Interior Closeups of 2021 Bronco Prototype!

[Jook13]

If Ford was really listening to the online guys, we would be looking at a big V8 on 2 axels carried by leaf springs with a 5 speed manual and 2 doors. As a Suzuki samurai guy currently, I'd love that. A bigger version of my rig with actual power. I also understand that would probably flop big time in sales.
This is a strange analogy, but I think back to the launch of Zelda on the Nintendo 64. News came out that there was no jump button. The character jumped automatically when running to an edge. People freaked out and claimed the game is ruined. Turns out, the game is still regarded as the best game ever made by many. Nintendo knew what we wanted before any of us did.
I have an idea of what I want, and I admit it's probably not realistic. I'm also willing to see if Ford can change my mind.

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[Carolina Jim]

I don't know if we'd carry you around on our shoulders, but we'd thank you kindly for a similar setup on Bronco

 

[Fosters]

Yeah. You're wrong.

History says he's right.

I just don't understand how people think no SFA = inevitable failure. It may not be THE BEST rock crawler, but It's going to be a better all-arounder than any of the competition... the Jeep is too hard, the 4 Runner is too soft, Bronco will be just right. This is what will sell, and this formula, while not exactly ideal for enthusiasts, has been working excellently for Ford with the Mustang. Challenger is too soft, Camaro is too hard. Mustang is just right, and that's why it outsells the other 2 by a healthy margin

The FJ was a better all rounder than the Wrangler. The Vehicross was a better all rounder than the Wrangler. Where are they?

The camaro is too hard? At what? The mustang mopped the floor with the camaro when that garbage got discontinued. That shitty rear axle that would break when you looked at it the wrong way - and every mustang owner putting drag radials or slicks on their stock 8.8 without issues... If the camaro was "too hard", what was the terminator?

Now I'm going to show my newbiness with all this, but how hard could it be for an aftermarket solution to satisfy the 10%?

Very hard. Just a dana 44 plug and play for a wrangler that's already set up for it is gonna run ya around 5 grand. Now add in welding frame mounts, engineering all of the control arms and suspension geometry shock mounts spring mounts, new steering setup, brakes, and then integrating the electronics that new vehicles have - abs rings/sensors/wheel speed sensors; and then recalibrating the vehicles' stability/traction control systems to work with everything. And after you get all of that working, you have to live with the knowing that if you get in a wreck - that may not even have anything to do with the vehicle itself - insurance company is gonna take one look at it and tell you to go pound sand.

At that point, it's just easier to go buy something that comes with an SFA already... which is what most people are going to do.

 

[Fosters]

You bring up the Mustang, but as I said before, the Mustang represents EXACTLY what this Bronco is going to. The Mustang isn't an all out track machine like the Camaro it competes against, nor is it a cushy cruiser like the challenger is. But it is a perfect compromise between the 2 and has the image that people desire, and that's why it outsells both of its competitors fairly significantly

Now replace Mustang with Bronco, Camaro with Wrangler, and Challenger with 4 runner, and you see exactly what I'm talking about

The camaro is an all out track machine? By what measurement? It handles a little better, but the mustang is way faster in drag racing. And once mods are involved, it's lights out for the mullet. If the camaro is an all out track machine, what is the 2 seater, can't go over a speedbump vette?

 

[Jake_zx2]

So, how do you see the Bronco succeeding if it A) Does not create a new market segment, and B) Does not excel in the existing market segments?

Who's saying it won't excel in existing segments? It may have a deficiency in ONE aspect of the segment while excelling in every single other aspect. That sounds like a recipe for success

If you don't think casual drivers and wanna-be racers are trying to get more / better sound or airflow for their engines because the enthusiasts and race drivers do similar things you're not paying attention.

I think you have quite a skewed idea of what "casual drivers" are... the general public we're talking about here are people who pay Jiffy Lube to change their oil for them because they're incapable of doing it themselves. People who modify their cars are the 10%

I’m one of those SFA Neanderthals, but I believe the Bronco will be a huge success in the short term (less than 10 years). The removable top and doors, good engines, good road manners, mild off road ability, and 25 years of pent-up demand will fit right into our booming economy and relatively cheap fuel.

The Bronco will be successful because it’s the right vehicle for the time. When that time is over it’ll get axed like it did before. Doesn’t make it a failure, just means the economy and demands have changed.

I pretty much agree with all of this. I wasn't calling SFA lovers Neanderthals, as I totally understand the appeal. However, you have to be simple brained to really think that'll be the sole contributor to the death of a vehicle line before the line has even debuted

I used to believe this but sales numbers say differently...

Around 2008, hardtop sales eclipsed soft top sales almost 2:1 on both 2 door & 4 door (excluding dual top options; east vs west determines which top the owner will likely sell)
The new power top is in higher demand than standard soft tops and dual top on 2019+ JLUs. The hardtop outline/framing is not removable, just the windows. Would not be surprised if the next gen Wrangler only offers removable window panels (Jeep Wrangler Flattop)

I'm not talking about hardtops or targa tops here; we're talking full fixed roof. Think Toyota FJ

Exactly. Open air experience + ease of access = sales success

The FJ was a better all rounder than the Wrangler. The Vehicross was a better all rounder than the Wrangler. Where are they?

This is exactly why "Neanderthal" comes to mind... see; "Fixed roof"

The camaro is too hard? At what? The mustang mopped the floor with the camaro when that garbage got discontinued. That shitty rear axle that would break when you looked at it the wrong way - and every mustang owner putting drag radials or slicks on their stock 8.8 without issues... If the camaro was "too hard", what was the terminator?

We aren't talking about 20 year old vehicles here, bud. Fact is, every variant of the Camaro in 2020 is more track focused and compromises more likeability to be faster than its Mustang counterpart

 

[Jake_zx2]

The camaro is an all out track machine? By what measurement? It handles a little better, but the mustang is way faster in drag racing. And once mods are involved, it's lights out for the mullet. If the camaro is an all out track machine, what is the 2 seater, can't go over a speedbump vette?

Way faster? The Mustang was slower than the 6G Camaro until 2018, at which point it TIED it (and only in auto... the manual variant is still slower than the Camaro. Ask me how I know). So, Camaro handles better, is faster around a track, is faster in any drag racing measure under 1/4 mile and AS fast/faster in the 1/4 mile depending on transmission... so what exactly makes the Mustang WAY faster?

Be real, we're talking about factory pony cars, not corvettes. The Camaro, within the segment, is the all-out track machine

 

[Fosters]

I don't wan't an automatic GT350.

I want to acknowledge that all the people buying baseline Mustangs ALLOWS Ford to build the GT350.
Like all the Mall Ride Wrangler Sport models, allow for the Rubicon.

The really hard core wrangler buyers don't start with a rubicon, they start with a sport and swap 1 ton axles right away... which is probably gonna be my next move. 37+ tires begin to question the dana 44s, and once you've swapped those out, you've thrown away the biggest part of the reason you bought a rubicon. Sure you're left with the swaybar disconnect and the transfer case

Mmmmm, not really. PP2 isn't quite as fast as 1LE... Camaro has better steering, better shifter, lower and more center CG, less tramlining, and does everything better with less tire. The ZL1 is faster in every aspect than the GT350. And the ZL1 1LE vs the GT500... well, we haven't seen much on that yet, but the $25k price difference is nothing to forget about. The Mustang wins in horsepower, putting down more of it and also being able to use it better (matches the Camaro in the 1/4 mile, beats it in anything longer), but that's all it wins in.

You apparently need to race a ZL1 sometime... they're turds. Keep in mind that's the competitor to the GT500, the 1LE is the competitor for the GT350. I've smoked one (zl1) in my coyote when it was still naturally aspirated... sticky tires, 3700 stall, exhaust and tune. Now, 250hp later, I'd love to find one to line up with.

 

[Fosters]

Way faster? The Mustang was slower than the 6G Camaro until 2018, at which point it TIED it (and only in auto... the manual variant is still slower than the Camaro. Ask me how I know). So, Camaro handles better, is faster around a track, is faster in any drag racing measure under 1/4 mile and AS fast/faster in the 1/4 mile depending on transmission... so what exactly makes the Mustang WAY faster?

Be real, we're talking about factory pony cars, not corvettes. The Camaro, within the segment, is the all-out track machine

You need some tires and to learn how to drive apparently. That, and you bought a heavy ass premium. My 2013 had 2 options: Auto and recaros. Ran 11.7 n/a, and have yet to take it back out with the blower, but needless to say I'd need a roll cage and I'm not ready for that.

 

[JimmyDean]

Who's saying it won't excel in existing segments? It may have a deficiency in ONE aspect of the segment while excelling in every single other aspect. That sounds like a recipe for success

From all that we have seen, what can you point to that indicates that the Bronco will somehow surpass say, the 4runner?
Removeable top? ok.
rear axle, stronger, yes. But you don't just lift the rear or put big tires on the rear, you do the same to the front.

and the front? Actually looks less capable than the base 4wd 4runner IFS.

So, while we have likely not seen everything or all options regarding front suspension, what we have seen right now is that the base 4wd 4runner will be more capable than the base bronco. Maybe if the Bronco is 10k cheaper, that's fine, but if they are within a stones-throw on price, the 4runner wins out there.

As we only have that to compare it to so far...the Bronco does not appear to have any performance advantages in any segment we can put it into yet, excepting maybe the 2.3EB and 2.7EB as compared to the Taco/4runner 4L V6, which imo is pretty anemic, about on par with the V6s from the 90s.

 

[Fosters]

I had a 1988 Bronco that had a SFA swap over to 1 ton axles front and rear. Worst thing we ever did, and it never drive the same again. It did work great in the mud (it was built for mud bogs with 35" super swampers, blueprinted engine etc.) but on the road it was less than stellar.

when I bought my 1994, we left that one alone. We also left my 1985 alone with the axles.

I have owned multiple Bronco's, a scout, a grand Cherokee Trailhawk, and 3 JL Rubicon unlimiteds. I hope the New Bronco will be about the size of the wrangler, but with better road manners. Raptor ranger like capability will be perfect.

the swap was actually easy as parts from the f250 were an easy fit, and not expensive. I assume it will be similar with this.

In older vehicles, especially those with TTBs, the swap is a lot easier... not many electronics to deal with, no center pumpkin/subframe to deal with and so on.

There aren't many SFA swapped FJs for that exact reason.

 

[Jake_zx2]

Keep in mind that's the competitor to the GT500, the 1LE is the competitor for the GT350.

You HAVE to be joking with this shit... you realize in the "competitors" you listed, the Mustang is over $10k more expensive in base trim? That's not a competitor, that's a different segment LMAO

You need some tires and to learn how to drive apparently. That, and you bought a heavy ass premium.

Again, you have to be joking... Premiums don't weigh much more than base models. Did a scale comparison with my buddy who has a base auto, and his car weighed more than mine, both with a full tank

Regardless, the Camaro I run against regularly is a 2SS, so it really doesn't matter. He still pulls on me from a dig or roll. It's not tires, its not driver mod, they're simply faster

 

[JimmyDean]

The really hard core wrangler buyers don't start with a rubicon, they start with a sport and swap 1 ton axles right away... which is probably gonna be my next move. 37+ tires begin to question the dana 44s, and once you've swapped those out, you've thrown away the biggest part of the reason you bought a rubicon. Sure you're left with the swaybar disconnect and the transfer case



You apparently need to race a ZL1 sometime... they're turds. Keep in mind that's the competitor to the GT500, the 1LE is the competitor for the GT350. I've smoked one (zl1) in my coyote when it was still naturally aspirated... sticky tires, 3700 stall, exhaust and tune. Now, 250hp later, I'd love to find one to line up with.

This, it is very much the capability of the base models that matters, and the appearance of the top end. serious off roaders will go with the base to build from, they'll save that initial 20k on the purchase price to use to real solid upgrades.

Serious track racers buy the base GT, not the GT premium California Special edition, and use that saved 20k for blowers, and springs, and adjustable arms, and wheels and tires and what-not. (well, not often blowers for a race track, but you get the point)

If the base model Bronco cannot be made to compete, there will be issues with it gaining traction. Because not many people are going to spend 55k to start cutting it up for axles and tires. They'll want the 30-35k model to do that to.

 

[Jake_zx2]

From all that we have seen, what can you point to that indicates that the Bronco will somehow surpass say, the 4runner?
Removeable top? ok.
rear axle, stronger, yes. But you don't just lift the rear or put big tires on the rear, you do the same to the front.

and the front? Actually looks less capable than the base 4wd 4runner IFS.

So, while we have likely not seen everything or all options regarding front suspension, what we have seen right now is that the base 4wd 4runner will be more capable than the base bronco. Maybe if the Bronco is 10k cheaper, that's fine, but if they are within a stones-throw on price, the 4runner wins out there.

As we only have that to compare it to so far...the Bronco does not appear to have any performance advantages in any segment we can put it into yet, excepting maybe the 2.3EB and 2.7EB as compared to the Taco/4runner 4L V6, which imo is pretty anemic, about on par with the V6s from the 90s.

So it has a significantly more capable rear end, POSSIBLY a SLIGHTLY less capable front end, a removable roof to the yoda's fixed, better styling, better engine/trans options... what makes you think the 4Runner would beat the Bronco bad enough to call the Bronco DOA? That's simply absurd

 

[Paint]

From all that we have seen, what can you point to that indicates that the Bronco will somehow surpass say, the 4runner?
Removeable top? ok.
rear axle, stronger, yes. But you don't just lift the rear or put big tires on the rear, you do the same to the front.

and the front? Actually looks less capable than the base 4wd 4runner IFS.

So, while we have likely not seen everything or all options regarding front suspension, what we have seen right now is that the base 4wd 4runner will be more capable than the base bronco. Maybe if the Bronco is 10k cheaper, that's fine, but if they are within a stones-throw on price, the 4runner wins out there.

As we only have that to compare it to so far...the Bronco does not appear to have any performance advantages in any segment we can put it into yet, excepting maybe the 2.3EB and 2.7EB as compared to the Taco/4runner 4L V6, which imo is pretty anemic, about on par with the V6s from the 90s.

I agree with most of this.

I would hope that it's 10k cheaper than a 4Runner. But I doubt it will be.
Also...4Runner is MADLY overpriced for being that.damn.old. Still love 'em. But damn grandpa, get a 6 speed or something.

 

[Jake_zx2]

Serious track racers buy the base GT, not the GT premium California Special edition, and use that saved 20k for blowers, and springs, and adjustable arms, and wheels and tires and what-not. (well, not often blowers for a race track, but you get the point)

Jesus, I can't believe the ignorance in here

Premium is the only way to get the digital dash, which is capable of tracking lap times and can be configured to be more readable on track

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