Steering impossible while off-camber

[Theherofails]

Hi guys!

So, I was running a 9 rated trail yesterday and had a very curious issue that I have not experienced prior with any vehicle and I'm not quite sure where to even go for help. This issue hasn't popped up on rutted roads or in washes etc. Only when I start crawling on rocks does the steering become unresponsive. Yesterday was the worst.

My steering would get so tight as to not be able to move the wheels at all without forward motion - even the tire in contact with the ground was on a somewhat slippery surface. As you can see from the photos below, the surface is very loose/sandy and even the rocks are crumbly. I would not expect very much steering resistance, even on 37s.


No grinding noises, no slipping feel.. nothing. Just an incredibly tight steering wheel. It almost feels like you would expect if you were trying to turn your wheel with some type of object in the way, stopping the wheel from turning. Once I'm back on flat ground, the steering feels just like the day I got it.

My only guess is I'm binding up the steering rack some how, but the only issue I was aware of with the Bronco steering is when the rack/pinion separate and teeth get damaged. Nothing like that has happened, and my steering wheel is still dead center (I would expect it to be crooked if the rack/pinion slipped.

Could it be the camber? I know camber plays a roll in steering. I do believe my camber may be a little positive right now..


My relevant rig setup is as follows:

2021 Badlands Sasquatch w/2.7
37x17x12.5 Yokohama Geolandar MT 003
Factory wheels with 1.5" spacers to clear UCA's
Icon Dynamics Adjustable Coil Overs
Icon Dynamics Billet UCA
.75" bump stop spacers installed front and back to limit rubbing with 37s
JKS Max Clearance Kit
JKS Tie Rod Braces


Lots more mods, but I think those are the only that matter for this conversation. Steering is still factory other than tie-rod braces being installed. Photo 3 shows the problem the best - you can see both front tires are on pretty slippery surfaces (the entire obstacle challenge is to get through without slipping and smashing your entire vehicle body into that car sized boulder)

So... any ideas? Anyone else have this issue?

This last shot is just a really nice photo from the same trip..

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[KABQ]

In shot 3, if you are steering to the right while stopped it will be basically trying to pull the weight of the vehicle uphill, even with just a small amount of caster. Caster isn't bad (it's actually very necessary), but in rare situations like that it will work against you. Camber shouldn't have much effect in that situation.

 

[Theherofails]

In shot 3, if you are steering to the right while stopped it will be basically trying to pull the weight of the vehicle uphill, even with just a small amount of caster. Caster isn't bad (it's actually very necessary), but in rare situations like that it will work against you. Camber shouldn't have much effect in that situation.

Both ways it was stuck. Completely frozen.
After researching, I realize that this probably means my steering rack is failing due to Ford building it out of potato. Just too much manliness for the factory steering rack once you add in 37s I guess, although I’ve had this problem since day 1 to some extent.

My guess is the Sasquatch guys are in for some heartbreak down the road even on 35s.

Looking into the HOSS 3 swap or BroncBuster solution.

Thanks for the input. I’m no where near an alignment specialist.

 

[VIRUS]

Both ways it was stuck. Completely frozen.
After researching, I realize that this probably means my steering rack is failing due to Ford building it out of potato. Just too much manliness for the factory steering rack once you add in 37s I guess, although I’ve had this problem since day 1 to some extent.

My guess is the Sasquatch guys are in for some heartbreak down the road even on 35s.

Looking into the HOSS 3 swap or BroncBuster solution.

Thanks for the input. I’m no where near an alignment specialist.

RTR/Project X is supposed to have a steering replacement coming. I'm waiting to see that before pulling the trigger on the HOSS 3 setup

 

[LockedBronco]

In shot 3, if you are steering to the right while stopped it will be basically trying to pull the weight of the vehicle uphill, even with just a small amount of caster. Caster isn't bad (it's actually very necessary), but in rare situations like that it will work against you. Camber shouldn't have much effect in that situation.

Exactly
Driving down the road and rock crawling not the same. Even with a frame mounted steering box it's not designed for that much force.
With steering linkage a hydraulic ram could be added to make it move. Then reinforcing everything else so it doesn't break.

 

[NC_Pinz]

Every vehicle has issues at times when off road. It is not necessarily a steering rack issue. What is more fun is when the vehicle has manual steering and you get into some tough spots. There is a reason I learned to not hook my thumbs in the steering wheel. The point is that every steering system can get put in a position where it just can't move the tires.

Maybe your steering rack has an impending failure, but difficulty when in a tough spot off road is not necessarily the sign you think it is.

 

[da_jokker]

So if I read this right, you lifted your rig and you put larger tires yet you did nothing for the steering rack....

If so, It's probably your rack. You're flexing the shafts to the point where the internal gear is not lining up with the teeth.

Your rack may be salvageable with BroncoBuster's solution, and using his trick to try and get as much metal shavings out as you can.

But honestly since you've probably already damaged the rack, going the route of the HOSS 3.0 maybe a better choice, although that has not proven itself with a lift and larger tires yet.

 

[Hemisfear]

Both ways it was stuck. Completely frozen.
After researching, I realize that this probably means my steering rack is failing due to Ford building it out of potato. Just too much manliness for the factory steering rack once you add in 37s I guess, although I’ve had this problem since day 1 to some extent.

My guess is the Sasquatch guys are in for some heartbreak down the road even on 35s.

Looking into the HOSS 3 swap or BroncBuster solution.

Thanks for the input. I’m no where near an alignment specialist.

Like the Funhaver's say, you shouldn't lift for off road if you don't take care of your drive and steering angles. You will be heading down a slippery slope if you continue your mods without!

 

[BlueBronco]

Looks like a fun trail. Did you have your front lockers engaged? Was it easier to turn the wheel with them off or did you still get the same resistance?

 

[Theherofails]

Looks like a fun trail. Did you have your front lockers engaged? Was it easier to turn the wheel with them off or did you still get the same resistance?

No front lockers, I use them very seldom. Completely different feeling as well.

Front lockers make your steering kind of springy feeling and increase turning radius.. My issue is the steering wheel refusing to budge. At one point it took 3 adults turning the wheel to get it to move a few degrees in order to clear the trail for passing dirt bikes. Definitely a binding issue now that I've studied up on it. Feels different than expected though.

 

[Rwhite692]

As BlueBronco asked/mentioned, steering any vehicle with the front diff locked can be near impossible at times. I have a 72 blazer (D60 / 40s, etc) and even with hydro assist, when locked it can be impossible to turn, in some situations. I often engage my front locker to get through stuff and then forget I'm locked, until I find I can't turn, lol. (Edit: just saw your response)

 

[LockedBronco]

No front lockers, I use them very seldom. Completely different feeling as well.

Front lockers make your steering kind of springy feeling and increase turning radius.. My issue is the steering wheel refusing to budge. At one point it took 3 adults turning the wheel to get it to move a few degrees in order to clear the trail for passing dirt bikes. Definitely a binding issue now that I've studied up on it. Feels different than expected though.

Where you on flat ground?
Or twisted up like in pic 3?

 

[Theherofails]

Where you on flat ground?
Or twisted up like in pic 3?

Yep. Pic 3 is one of the times steering was nearly impossible in either direction. Normally I would expect overly easy steering when turning downhill and a bit of resistance while turning uphill.

I went out and pulled the steering boot on the driver side and as expected, there is wear on the bushing. It appears the rack is flexing which caused the teeth to engage on the bushing, making turning incredibly difficult. That would explain the behavior.

BroncBuster Is correct in his thoughts behind the bushing replacement, but I guess not all cases present the same. What’s interesting is this problem originally started when I was on the factory 35s, so I’m not sure how much of that wear is recent.

No metal shavings, which is good. Just some contaminants from the factory boot not being completely water tight apparently. That bushing is chewed up near the teeth though.

 

[Theherofails]

Like the Funhaver's say, you shouldn't lift for off road if you don't take care of your drive and steering angles. You will be heading down a slippery slope if you continue your mods without!

So if I read this right, you lifted your rig and you put larger tires yet you did nothing for the steering rack....

If so, It's probably your rack. You're flexing the shafts to the point where the internal gear is not lining up with the teeth.

Your rack may be salvageable with BroncoBuster's solution, and using his trick to try and get as much metal shavings out as you can.

But honestly since you've probably already damaged the rack, going the route of the HOSS 3.0 maybe a better choice, although that has not proven itself with a lift and larger tires yet.

Do you know how many people have lifted their rigs without spending $1700 on BroncBusters kit? Virtually everyone. I’ve come across exactly 1 person on the trails with upgraded steering out of countless modified Broncos I’ve met. Tie rod sleeves are the exception.

The forums and the trails are two completely different beasts, my friend. The forum also spent a better part of a year convinced that every single 2.7 was a ticking time bomb after a less than 100 known failures. Remember when TFL had a leaky shock on their First Edition? Pandemonium. I can’t tell you how many times the sky has fallen because I’ve lost count.

I’ve done thousands of miles on trails with this steering rack and it’s had the issue long before I went up to 37s. If I upgraded every part that could fail when off-roading, there would be very little left that is OEM. This is a Ford we are talking about.

With that said, it’s more noticeable on 37s for sure.

As a general rule, I don’t take advice from people trying to sell me something, so the fact that FunHaver crew or BroncBuster say it’s a huge problem doesn’t necessarily convince me it’s a huge problem.. Remember Juicero?
Not a whole lot of reported cases of steering rack failure in the wild. Some, for sure.

Either way, this problem existed for me on the OEM 35s with the factory suspension so it’s not entirely down to lift or tires alone. Likely the solution will be that anyone off-roading a Bronco on 35s with the HOSS 1/2 steering will need to reinforce the bushing. It’s a shame the only aftermarket solution is $400 as it’s just a piece of plastic.

Otherwise, I think the steering rack is probably going to be a common point of failure right about the time everyone’s extended warranty runs out..

It’s clearly time to upgrade the steering as that bushing has seen better days. The rest of the rack is fine, so now just to see what the best solution is while avoiding rocks for the time being.

 

[Rkgzx9leftcoast]

Yeah mine did this a little at Sand Hollow on Double Sammy And Plan B , both solid 7 rated trails. It was only when the front locker was on and I had to turn after the obstacle. Some were off camber, some were just big ledges to climb over. It unfroze after going forward and backwards and unlocking front Diff. Probably did this 4 or 5 times over both days.

I have the Bronc buster bushing, and tie rod braces. Once it unfroze I had no issues and have driven about 1000 miles since. ( back home to AZ from Utah the next day included). I have used lockers a little on trials in AZ since, but the trails are nothing like I was on in Sand Hollow.

I think its the motor on the rack getting overheated. There is a belt inside that helps assist in steering. I have 37s, no lift on stock offset wheels as well. The rack is just undersized in my opinion for anything aftermarket. I may do the HOSS 3.0 at some point.

No great solution out there for it, but I dont think it grenaded anything either.

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