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VictoryLights

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When the bottom line is that he's not willing to do something everyone has to do, i.e.: wait. It takes the wind out of his argument. It's strawmaning at it's finest. Not to mention, him and his dad have both been sniping at the Bronco ever since Ford pulled their press passes for being assholes.
I don’t understand what you’re saying. His point is that he didn’t have to wait for the Jeep, and he would have to wait multiple years for a Bronco. That argument has plenty of wind.
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VictoryLights

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Your ‘actual points’ are based on incorrect assumptions. Plus you are misusing ‘strawman’.

Your conclusion is that Tommy’s assertion that he’d have had to wait at least a year on a personal purchase of a 2 door base bronco ordered in early May (which is when he said he ordered his Jeep) is a lie because the TFL company purchased a FE Bronco 4 months later.

That conclusion only makes sense if:
1) you assume tommy is lying about his personal budget
2) you conflate tommy and ‘TFL’ the company
3) you interpret this video as Tommy comparing his Jeep to TFL’s first edition Bronco. If you watch the video though, Tommy doesnt make many comparisons involving FE-trim features. He mainly compares stuff that is standard/available on 2-door Bronco, like the hard top, headlights, audio, engines, transmission, back seat venting, seat bolstering, etc.

The bottom line is if Tommy was in the position in May like he says, where he had saved the cash on hand to buy a new offroader for ~35k outright, he was absolutely looking at either ordering a Jeep with a 8-10 week delivery timeline, or a base Bronco 2-door with a delivery of ‘hopefully by next summer’. I see no reasonable argument to assume he’s lying and it’s a non-superficial factor for anyone looking to by an offroader right now that doesnt already have an early-ish Bronco reservation/order.
These were all of my immediate thoughts that I was too lazy to type. Excellent job laying it out.
 

VictoryLights

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For those that watched in the entirety - any update on the popping noise from his roof panels?
Nope. He tried to line it with silicone and it made no difference. The material inside the top is also coming unglued and basically falling apart. The tops are a disaster.
 

jaruss01

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Nope. He tried to line it with silicone and it made no difference. The material inside the top is also coming unglued and basically falling apart. The tops are a disaster.
Here's an interesting thought - can a manufacturer even successfully engineer removable tops (front and mid panels)? Sometimes we forget it's a 'first'. I say that half in jest. Webasto proved that they got awfully close. Wonder what the next guy does for 2023.
 

Dads_bronze_bronco

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I think he has a very rational point, the Bronco isn't better enough than the Jeep for him to wait more than a year to get a similar configuration.

I think the dude did a good job laying out what he likes and dislikes about each.
Not to mention the only way he could get a Bronco, is if Ford gave him a priority unit. If he was one of us, it would be next year some time.

He made the right choice for today, and should have no regrets. Bet that Black Diamond 7MT two door is calling him though ...
 

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Look, we all knew the Bronco was going to be about a year out from release, barring delays. The jeep has been on the market by itself for the last 25 years.

His end argument was that he had to wait for a Bronco otherwise the Bronco is better.

It's a strawman because he's using the production schedule instead of the actual vehicle as the basis of his argument.

The straw man fallacy. occurs in the following pattern of argument:
  1. Person 1 asserts proposition X.
  2. Person 2 argues against a superficially similar proposition Y, falsely, as if an argument against Y were an argument against X.
This reasoning is a fallacy of relevance: it fails to address the proposition in question by misrepresenting the position of the argument.

In this case, he's claiming he doesn't regret buying the Bronco, but clearly, he does, as the Bronco is the better vehicle. However, he's asserting, i.e. strawmaning, that his position is that he had to wait for Bronco production.

Whereas, if you remove the strawman, his argument falls apart completely, because he admits himself that he thinks the Bronco is superior to the Jeep.
He's not arguing which is better though. He's arguing why he chose one over the other despite the other being better. It's a very valid reason. If the Bronco were $150,000 (and I know you'll be digging through your dictionary to tell me which argument I'm making now) and his justification was, "in every conceivable way the Bronco is better and I would absolutely prefer to own this, but I can't afford it, therefor I bought the Willy's" would you claim that to be a Strawman argument too? "He's claiming it's better yet doesn't regret not spending an addition $110K on it. His argument falls apart". If item A does 99% of what you'd want it to and item B does 100%, but to get item B you have to wait a year, its not irrational or wrong to choose item A and be happy with that choice.
 
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If I wanted such a vehicle and it was going to be a luxury, a toy, I would wait a year or two for Ford to fix their shit. If I HAD to purchase now, I’d have to give the Jeep a serious look, as it’s available now, and is mostly stable from a quality point-of-view.
 
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Southern Girl

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We placed the order for that defender at the very end or June, about two weeks before bronco reservations opened up. To Land Rovers credit we took delivery on October 6, pandemic and all.

I appreciate the patience on this forum folks but it’s hard for me to express how many folks I’ve talked to in the last few weeks who were reservation holders but ended up in a 4runner, Wrangler, or Midsize truck (Colorado ZR2 or otherwise). It’s just a car to most, not a house
.
I had to order an F150 because my Bronco is not going to be built for at least 2 more years. I ordered the F150 Tremor.

I am a fan of your channel, so don't let the whiners on here get you down.
 

Luv9rove

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The straw man fallacy. occurs in the following pattern of argument:
  1. Person 1 asserts proposition X.
  2. Person 2 argues against a superficially similar proposition Y, falsely, as if an argument against Y were an argument against X.
This reasoning is a fallacy of relevance: it fails to address the proposition in question by misrepresenting the position of the argument.

My favorite logic flaw is "Any True Scotsman", as in "Any TRUE Scotsman likes his porridge with sugar!".

Prepare for "Any TRUE off road enthusiast only buys a Jeep!"
 

BroncoT

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Very good review as usual. I totally get the point of having the Jeep for an extra year and a half. That’s a long time and quite an equalizer. Many here have dropped their reservation for that exact reason, and I have to admit being at the beach surrounded by Jeeps this week while I drive my wife’s SUV with a year old Bronco reservation and no end in sight kinda sucks.
 

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Tommy has mentioned on several occasions now that you can get lumbar support on both the driver and passenger seat.

I drove a leather Wildtrak and cloth Big Bend that did not have adjustable lumbar support on the passenger side.

How do you get this passenger side lumbar support?
 

Elonmsk

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Man, that’s a little harsh. Scotty Kilmer is absolutely unwatchable. At least there’s entertainment value in TFL. Production quality is good and they actually drive the cars.
Good point, the production quality is excellent.
 

colintrax

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Look, we all knew the Bronco was going to be about a year out from release, barring delays. The jeep has been on the market by itself for the last 25 years.

His end argument was that he had to wait for a Bronco otherwise the Bronco is better.

It's a strawman because he's using the production schedule instead of the actual vehicle as the basis of his argument.

The straw man fallacy. occurs in the following pattern of argument:
  1. Person 1 asserts proposition X.
  2. Person 2 argues against a superficially similar proposition Y, falsely, as if an argument against Y were an argument against X.
This reasoning is a fallacy of relevance: it fails to address the proposition in question by misrepresenting the position of the argument.

In this case, he's claiming he doesn't regret buying the Bronco, but clearly, he does, as the Bronco is the better vehicle. However, he's asserting, i.e. strawmaning, that his position is that he had to wait for Bronco production.

Whereas, if you remove the strawman, his argument falls apart completely, because he admits himself that he thinks the Bronco is superior to the Jeep.
Having to wait is a legitimate concern, chill. Don't like TFL dont watch the videos.
Besides he made multiple points where the Jeep is better or at least, better for him.
Enjoy your Bronco, let the Jeep guys enjoy their Jeeps.
 

Cappy

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Having to wait is a legitimate concern, chill. Don't like TFL dont watch the videos.
Besides he made multiple points where the Jeep is better or at least, better for him.
Enjoy your Bronco, let the Jeep guys enjoy their Jeeps.
That response was for McDoogs, he's a known troll. I got baited.

But thanks for piling on. (y)
 

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Love Tommy, he got what HE wanted and needed. A very fair review....that helps me know that I'm getting what I want and need. If I ever do....
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