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dave91gt

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When these videos come out, I always like to check over at JL Wrangler Forums as well to get opinions from both camps.
I literally do the same thing. The Jeep following is as brand loyal as it gets. They tolerate the Wranglers atrocious steering, glitchy electronics, squeaky hardtops (our freedom panels drive me nuts), rear door rattles, horrible seats, etc. I like Tommy's videos and appreciate why he bought the Wrangler. Andre bought a new F150 and has an episode on why he went that route. Spelled it out just like Tommy. I know their channel has to get viewership and rides the content fence often by not picking favorites. Its their livelihood. But its his opinion and his money. I personally don't judge or let others influence my spending. The Bronco following right now is rough around the edges. I expect it will take some time to gel and get a real cult following. Jeep has quite a head start building their brand and loyalty. And they are going to defend it. The brand loyal Jeep owners aren't the buyer Bronco will conquer. Its folks like me that pay for a vehicle and expect it to live up to the expectations. Our Wrangler has been a disappointment and that's the reason we will be dumping it. But before I drop Bronco money, I want Ford to work out the hardtop issues. That and I'm hoping the new green color will be a deep green.
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Bronconheimer

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I didn't watch the video, but remember his last video when he talked about how awesome "his" hard plastic steering wheel and "his" 3" display are...because they are "his"? Classic.
 

Broncofly

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I think the top issues reported are spot on with his review. Start watching at 5:10.

That item aside, some of the other items are personal preference and I don't mind it but would come across better if it were an equally equipped vehicle.

 

DanDan

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He can always trade his jeep for more than what he paid for it. I believe he got it 7-8% bellow dealer invoice. Wranglers hold their value well. Jeep factories have 5 month delivery estimate from 6 weeks and they are closing some factories for 1 or 2 weeks.
 

rkj__

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For one, the JL Wrangler DOES handle well on road. Did your friend have a brand new JL Wrangler? I see lots of people talking about how bad the Wrangler is on road but haven't even driven or even been in the new JL Wrangler....not a late model JK or any other Wrangler but a JL.
I read about the Jeep steering issues first. I drove Wrangler JLs second.

I have to say, that reading the forums can very quickly convince you the JL steering is abysmal.

My test drive experience in 2020 convinced me the JL steering is different, but acceptable. I definitely detected something "different" in the JL, vs the other late model vehicles I had driven with IFS / rack and pinion steering. Ultimately, it seemed to me that the JL required more steering input to keep the vehicle pointed straight down the road. It's something that really stands out the first few minutes behind the wheel, but drew my attention less as I spent more time behind the wheel, and adapted my driving. Both Wranglers I drove, 20.L & 3.6L, steered the same.

It does sound to me like different owners have had different experiences with the JL. Based on all the reports, I believe that some units steered better than others. Additionally, there has been several different part numbers / revisions to the JL steering box. I believe 2021+ vehicles are having the best results, though I have been following the issue less lately.
 

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BuckeyeinNV

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I think people are mostly arguing past each other in this thread. Ultimately, the problem with this video is the clickbait title and disingenuous argument it presents. Tommy decided when he was shopping for his Jeep that he didn't want to wait for a Bronco, and therefore a Bronco was never really in the cards. That's totally fine, but any contemplation of regret he may have had regarding his purchase was shallow and fleeting, since his decision largely hinged on wait times.

If they had titled this video, "A deeper comparison of a 2021 Wrangler and Bronco," and mentioned that he does not regret his purchase because of wait times, there would be much less ill will and it likely would not have hurt their view count.
 

BuckeyeinNV

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One could say they don't mind the Wrangler's steering, but to say it is good or simply not bad lacks context. I believe if you lined up the Wrangler next to a host of new vehicles that weren't heavy duty trucks or commercial vehicles, almost everyone would say the Wrangler is the worst. Whether or not that's enough to detract one from wanting a Wrangler is a different question entirely, and many would probably even include that "bad" steering as part of the overall character of the vehicle which they find enjoyable.
 

Rod81

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Look, we all knew the Bronco was going to be about a year out from release, barring delays. The jeep has been on the market by itself for the last 25 years.

His end argument was that he had to wait for a Bronco otherwise the Bronco is better.

It's a strawman because he's using the production schedule instead of the actual vehicle as the basis of his argument.

The straw man fallacy. occurs in the following pattern of argument:
  1. Person 1 asserts proposition X.
  2. Person 2 (or Person 1 against themselves) argues against a superficially similar proposition Y, falsely, as if an argument against Y were an argument against X.
This reasoning is a fallacy of relevance: it fails to address the proposition in question by misrepresenting the position of the argument.

In this case, he's claiming he doesn't regret buying the Bronco, but clearly, he does, as the Bronco is the better vehicle. However, he's asserting, i.e. strawmaning, that his position is that he had to wait for Bronco production.

Whereas, if you remove the strawman, his argument falls apart completely, because he admits himself that he thinks the Bronco is superior to the Jeep.
Did you watch the same video i watched?
 

ramblinwreck

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listening to him stammer and awe shucks his way around saying the Jeep handles acceptably on the open road did me in. A good friend bought a brand new Jeep and did everything to it only to get rid of it a couple of months later as it was basically unbearable to drive on the freeway. Knocking the independent suspension on the Bronco while driving the vehicle that created the term Death Wobble is a complete joke.
*I give 100% credit to the rear air vents. Foolish of Ford and next to the Hard Top mess, may be the biggest knock. I also will be replacing my dash speakers and be fine audio wise.

Curious, does anybody think his 2 door looks good? It screams Geo Metro with a lift to me
Honestly after having owned 2 Jeep’s…your friend is full of shit. Jeep’s haven’t been that hard to drive on the highway since the TJ over 20 years ago. Do the drive as crisp as a well tuned IFS? No. Do they drive just fine for 99% if people? Yes.
 

ramblinwreck

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One could say they don't mind the Wrangler's steering, but to say it is good or simply not bad lacks context. I believe if you lined up the Wrangler next to a host of new vehicles that weren't heavy duty trucks or commercial vehicles, almost everyone would say the Wrangler is the worst. Whether or not that's enough to detract one from wanting a Wrangler is a different question entirely, and many would probably even include that "bad" steering as part of the overall character of the vehicle which they find enjoyable.
I have Jeep’s and $100k German luxury car designed around steering and handling. I have no problems or issues driving my Jeep in the highway. My Porsche is definitely more comfortable, but that doesn’t make the jeep in drivable or even close to it.
 

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zigtig

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Honestly after having owned 2 Jeep’s…your friend is full of shit. Jeep’s haven’t been that hard to drive on the highway since the TJ over 20 years ago. Do the drive as crisp as a well tuned IFS? No. Do they drive just fine for 99% if people? Yes.
Chalk it up to a bad lift? Suspension? Wrong tires? It is what it is. It had an amazing stance and looked great but for his driving on the freeway he said it was all over the place. this was around 2019. Even in the video he mentions the steering being unique. I'm sure there's advantages in the Jeep column but no way would steering and highway driving be one of them. I love my older jeep and how it goes where the road pushes it like the tin can of bolts that it is but that's what makes it fun. I wouldn't complain about another vehicle while claiming my Jeep isn't what it is.
 

Bison

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Why does the SoLiD FrOnT AxeL comment always come up...hasn't the Bronco shown that it is just as capable?
I just heard a lot of excuses for why the Jeep is "more refined"... oh look, my plastic is better than your plastic...
If the Solid axel comments bother you be prepared for a life long bashing to come. I have an Fj cruiser and the Jeep’s would bash and even the Toyota’s with solid axels would. It never ends. Solid axels can do more from my experience but I would like to keep my teeth on the ride to the trail head.
 

zigtig

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Where did he "admit that the Bronco is superior to the Jeep"? He stated his likes/dislikes of each and it IS a factor as others has said that he can go buy a brand new Wrangler today for 35K off the lot. I think you may be putting your own 2 cents into the video rather than interpreting it for what it is. Your strawman is a strawman.



For one, the JL Wrangler DOES handle well on road. Did your friend have a brand new JL Wrangler? I see lots of people talking about how bad the Wrangler is on road but haven't even driven or even been in the new JL Wrangler....not a late model JK or any other Wrangler but a JL. There were some that had a steering issue as well that needed to be fixed. I have a 2 door JL Rubicon and it drives like a small SUV on the highway.
I do think Tommy's Wrangler looks good. It seems like you want to hate just to hate especially with that "Geo Metro with a lift" bad joke. It is possible to be excited about the new Bronco and also respect why people like their Jeeps.
No hate here. Just not a fan of the stance and set up on the 2 door Willeys. Opinion. I also am not a fan of many other things Jeep has or hasn't done over the years. It's OK. I also think Toyota blew it with their FJ when they didn't have a removable top like the originals did. I promise you'll never hear me say how amazing the AC in the back seat of this Bronco is just to pretend it's better than it is which is what I heard Tommy saying about the steering in the video.
 

Ricepuddin

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I literally do the same thing. The Jeep following is as brand loyal as it gets. They tolerate the Wranglers atrocious steering, glitchy electronics, squeaky hardtops (our freedom panels drive me nuts), rear door rattles, horrible seats, etc. I like Tommy's videos and appreciate why he bought the Wrangler. .
You just described this forum! But good on you doing research outside of this forum . It's always best to get opposing view point to create a valid opinion.
I didn't watch the video, but remember his last video when he talked about how awesome "his" hard plastic steering wheel and "his" 3" display are...because they are "his"? Classic.
To quote a racing legend “Simplify, then add lightness”

When I am looking for a track car I want it to be as analog as possible, maybe that's what he wants out of an offroader.
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