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The Jeep Wrangler Has More Engine Options But A Huge Gap In The Middle

sledboy

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One thing that I keep hearing over and over again from the media is that the Wrangler has more engine options (4) which they claim is a plus. But here is my perspective and one of the biggest reasons why I did not get a Wrangler a year ago.
  • Two of their options (3.6 and the 2.0 turbo) are nearly identical engines when it comes to torque and HP. So there is not a lot that differentiates these two options. So you really only have 3 engine options.
  • So option #1 (the 3.6 and 2.0) are under powered if you want decent power or the power to tow (we regularly tow our Polaris RZR XP4 which weighs about 2,500 lbs with trailer).
  • Option #2 is their 3.0 diesel. This is a fantastic engine.! So what are the drawbacks? Well, it's a diesel and for the last 10 or so years, diesels are highly regulated. They have an EGR system that recirculates "dirty" exhaust back into the engine. They have a particulate filter that must go through a regular and finicky regeneration process. Fuel filters that must be changed regularly and fuel/water separators. You also have to buy and add diesel exhaust fluid. And their oil changes are relatively expensive. You skip all of these "negatives" with a gas engine.
  • Option #3 (392) is incredible! I have a little experience with a 392 Wrangler Rubicon and it is awesome! But it is starts at $20,000 more that I paid for my Bronco. And I can't afford that.
So when it comes to the "middle ground" of engine options, Jeep is totally missing it. I see this as a huge gap in their options. I want an affordable engine that has decent power for pulling but I don't want the hassle of a diesel. Jeep doesn't have that. The Bronco 2.7 does!
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BroncoAgain

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A fully loaded 4 door Bronco is 5300+ pounds. Add 35's and the 2.7 is marginal HP for towing. There are many areas that Wrangler and Bronco could improve. Suspension and power is not really made for towing, then you would loose off road ride comfort. An air ride suspension could help. Ford has better engine options for the Bronco for the future. For Wrangler, turbo the 3.6 or add the 5.7 hemi.
 

foremi

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  • Option #2 is their 3.0 diesel. This is a fantastic engine.! So what are the drawbacks? Well, it's a diesel and for the last 10 or so years, diesels are highly regulated. They have an EGR system that recirculates "dirty" exhaust back into the engine. They have a particulate filter that must go through a regular and finicky regeneration process. Fuel filters that must be changed regularly and fuel/water separators. You also have to buy and add diesel exhaust fluid. And their oil changes are relatively expensive. You skip all of these "negatives" with a gas engine.
First, every modern engine diesel or gas has an EGR system and modern DI Gas engines without additional port injection have build up issues in the intake. The 2.3L in the bronco will have buildup issues and still has an EGR system the same as any diesel. DI Gas engines create more ash in the exhaust as well because the fuel/air mix is less mixed.

Second, oil changes are not any more expensive unless you are buying cheap oil or are having your dealer rape you and paying $200+ for an oil change.

Third, In Michigan Diesel has been around 10 Cents a gallon more than regular gas for almost 2 years now (BEFORE covid). This quickly makes diesel fuel economy benefits worth putting DEF in every 5-8K miles depending on the car.

Fourth, A Properly specced DPF will last 150k+ miles and many VW's ones I've owned made it easily past 200k with no issues. It's not like cat's last forever on a gas vehicle.

My Colorado ZR2 with a factory lift, is wider than standard, bigger tires, and worse aero than a standard colorado gets almost 30mpg on the freeway and mid 30's at 55-65mph. The Diesel is more than worth any minor maintenance drawbacks. If Ford brought the 2.0 Diesel they put in the ranger to the US I would have bought a ranger 2 years ago, and I would have done the same for the Bronco.
 
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sledboy

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First, every modern engine diesel or gas has an EGR system and modern DI Gas engines without additional port injection have build up issues in the intake. The 2.3L in the bronco will have buildup issues and still has an EGR system the same as any diesel. DI Gas engines create more ash in the exhaust as well because the fuel/air mix is less mixed.
You are correct that all modern engines have EGR systems. However, as I pointed out in my post, the exhaust from diesel engines is much "dirtier" than a gas engine. Yes, the arguments and differing points of view will rage on forever. But most people agree that the soot that is recirculated back into the engine in diesel engines pollutes the oil much quicker than it does in a gas engine. This causes more wear on engine parts and the need to change oil more frequently.

Here is a quote from https://www.drivingline.com/articles/egr-diesels-necessary-evil/

"Exhaust gas recirculation’s ill-effects begin with soot-laced exhaust flow mixing with oil vapor from the close crankcase ventilation system. This leads to carbon buildup forming at the point of origin, and carrying on all the way to the intake ports of the cylinder head(s).

On top of that, the contaminants that make it in-cylinder and past the piston rings end up in the engine oil. So not only does EGR hamper performance by coating and then shrinking the size of the intake path, but it is also hard on engine oil, and even degrades the coolant that is used to cool off the exhaust gases passing through the EGR cooler."
 

foremi

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You are correct that all modern engines have EGR systems. However, as I pointed out in my post, the exhaust from diesel engines is much "dirtier" than a gas engine. Yes, the arguments and differing points of view will rage on forever. But most people agree that the soot that is recirculated back into the engine in diesel engines pollutes the oil much quicker than it does in a gas engine. This causes more wear on engine parts and the need to change oil more frequently.
Almost every part of this statement is factually incorrect. Diesel exhaust has more ash in it, yes. DI Gas engines also have far more ash in the exhaust than a typical port injection gas engine.

Either way, it has no effect on Diesel oil change intervals which are often longer than gas engines OR the fact that Diesel's have a reputation for running forever.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and have just read the bullet points of someone's anti diesel propaganda.
 

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MSparks909

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Almost every part of this statement is factually incorrect. Diesel exhaust has more ash in it, yes. DI Gas engines also have far more ash in the exhaust than a typical port injection gas engine.

Either way, it has no effect on Diesel oil change intervals which are often longer than gas engines OR the fact that Diesel's have a reputation for running forever.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and have just read the bullet points of someone's anti diesel propaganda.
It’s not propaganda. Earlier designed Ecodiesels (Gen 1 and Gen 2) had a reputation for eating main bearings. The most plausible theory for this is the fact that the Ecodiesel basically cooks it’s oil even when moderately towing. Oil temps of 240-250 are very common. When the oil breaks down it starts clogging the main bearing oil galleys and leads to early failure. An easy “fix” is to use a Mopar spec oil and change it every 5K no matter what.

A lot of JL Ecodiesels have also had problems with the DEF/SCR system and there have been numerous failures with under 20K miles. These aren’t the reliable diesels of yesterday. Thank the EPA for that.
 

Drex

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the 2.0 has an additional 35 lb-ft @1800 RPM lower than the 3.6. That is not the same, it is a big difference. Also allows the manual transmission to live on with the 3.6. Your premise is that there is no middle option for Wranglers, but even if you incorrectly maintain the 3.6 and 2.0 are the same, that still leaves you three choices, which by definition means a middle ground, in this case, the diesel. The Bronco is the one with the engine gaps, they have the 2.3 base, the 2.7 mid output, and....nothing. They limited it to the two smallest and weakest EB truck engines they had in stock. These things weigh more and have more unsprung and rotating mass than many F-150's and they under-engined them from the start.
 

foremi

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It’s not propaganda. Earlier designed Ecodiesels (Gen 1 and Gen 2) had a reputation for eating main bearings. The most plausible theory for this is the fact that the Ecodiesel basically cooks it’s oil even when moderately towing. Oil temps of 240-250 are very common. When the oil breaks down it starts clogging the main bearing oil galleys and leads to early failure. An easy “fix” is to use a Mopar spec oil and change it every 5K no matter what.

A lot of JL Ecodiesels have also had problems with the DEF/SCR system and there have been numerous failures with under 20K miles. These aren’t the reliable diesels of yesterday. Thank the EPA for that.
This sounds like design issues from 1 manufacturer. I have never heard of this or had issues from any other manufacturer and I've owned "modern" Diesels from Ford, VAG, BMW, Mercedes and GM.


I will also go back to my prior statement

Fourth, A Properly specced DPF will last 150k+ miles and many VW's ones I've owned made it easily past 200k with no issues. It's not like cat's last forever on a gas vehicle.
Emphasis on properly specced equipment by the OEM. You can't blame diesel engines in general for FCA putting out garbage.
 
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MSparks909

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This sounds like design issues from 1 manufacturer. I have never heard of this or had issues from any other manufacturer and I've owned "modern" Diesels from Ford, VAG, BMW, Mercedes and GM.


I will also go back to my prior statement



Emphasis on properly specced equipment by the OEM. You can't blame diesel engines in general for FCA putting out garbage.
I daily drive a F250 6.7 so I kind of know what I’m talking about. Also am partners with one diesel mechanic and am good friends with another diesel shop owner. They *all* have issues stock. I had emissions issues inside of 20K miles on my truck. Deleted that crap off the truck and I’m now at 135K six years later with no engine issues to date. Modern diesels are ticking time bombs. Not a question of *if* the DPF/SCR/EGR will fail but when.

And you’re correct on the design flaw thing on the Gen 1/2 Ecodiesels. Time will tell how the Gen 3 engines are.
 

foremi

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I daily drive a F250 6.7 so I kind of know what I’m talking about. Also am partners with one diesel mechanic and am good friends with another diesel shop owner. They *all* have issues stock. I had emissions issues inside of 20K miles on my truck. Deleted that crap off the truck and I’m now at 135K six years later with no engine issues to date. Modern diesels are ticking time bombs. Not a question of *if* the DPF/SCR/EGR will fail but when.

And you’re correct on the design flaw thing on the Gen 1/2 Ecodiesels. Time will tell how the Gen 3 engines are.
My Colorado needed a def line replaced due to a failed heater at about 40k miles but it was covered under warranty. I can’t say any of the other vehicles I’ve owned had any real issues that would fall outside of the normal random crap a car needs.

I also cannot support being lazy and removing your emissions equipment. You people are the reason the epa has cracked down on people illegally modifying vehicles. Your truck went from one the cleanest on the road to one of poorest for people’s health.
 

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I think the 2.0 and 3.6 drive pretty decently.

My old '08 GMC Canyon with a 4 speed auto would tow 3k lb ok with less HP than either of those Jeep offerings. Sure, for some longer climbs it would hang around 4k rpm, but if you want to tow up grades with low RPM, you need diesel or an overpowered gas engine. Just let the 2.0 or 3.6 get higher in the rev range. There is decent power there.
 

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I also cannot support being lazy and removing your emissions equipment. You people are the reason the epa has cracked down on people illegally modifying vehicles. Your truck went from one the cleanest on the road to one of poorest for people’s health.
I didn’t ask for your support nor do I care if I have it. No emissions checks in my state on diesel vehicles so instead of dealing with a problematic vehicle I fixed it. Truck runs like it should now and I don’t foresee it leaving my possession for a long time.
 

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I didn’t ask for your support nor do I care if I have it. No emissions checks in my state on diesel vehicles so instead of dealing with a problematic vehicle I fixed it. Truck runs like it should now and I don’t foresee it leaving my possession for a long time.
I enjoy the outdoors, camping, orving, hunting, whatever, you name it. I guess I'm not lazy and do my part to preserve it. If that means some minor maintenance on a vehicle every 50k or more miles then so be it.

Good for you. I don't have emissions checks in michigan either, doesn't change how illegal it is or the effects it has.
 
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MSparks909

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I enjoy the outdoors, camping, orving, hunting, whatever, you name it. I guess I'm not lazy and do my part to preserve it. If that means some minor maintenance on a vehicle every 50k or more miles then so be it.

Good for you. I don't have emissions checks in michigan either, doesn't change how illegal it is or the effects it has.
Do some research on the global shipping market and emissions before attacking me for deleting my personal vehicle. I don’t roll coal, I run a very clean tune. I drive like a sane adult and did this for my vehicle’s longevity. I, too hunt, hike & camp. Love the outdoors. Don’t love the virtue signaling from the EPA about how our personal vehicles are massively contribution to the world greenhouse gas problem. 1 cargo ship emits as much pollution as 50 million vehicles. There’s over 6,000 operating in our oceans. My lone deleted diesel won’t be the contributing factor to global climate change or air quality problems, I assure you.

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