Sponsored

Theory - Why some 4 door 2.7 and Sasquatch builds may get delayed to MY22 (and it’s not entirely due to high demand)

jaruss01

Outer Banks
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Threads
149
Messages
2,925
Reaction score
5,331
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
2021 XC90 T6 R-Design / 2020 S60 T6 AWD
Your Bronco Model
Outer Banks
So I have been doing some estimations on different curb weights for various builds since I need a good bit of payload. I’ll send an update around later. But as I’m going through this, it caught me.

Why did Ford say there could be delays due to high demand on say a 2.7L or Sasquatch. I always thought it was odd that the engine would cause delays since they already have the engine across other models (granted it needs to be tuned specific to the Bronco). I don’t think it’s due to demand. It’s due to weight and GVWR. Ford also said that you “really want to wait until 2022” on ordering a 4 dr Sasquatch to get a roof rack for added weight.

These are all signals that for 2022, either weight will be improved (such as aluminum bumpers over steel, or some other weight savings) and/or a higher GVWR (some say this could be tied to a Warthog lending to increased GVWR for certain Broncos).

Pair that together - and boom - certain builds will not be delayed due to demand, but will rather get pushed out to 2022 for whatever weight/GVWR improvement is needed in 2022. Ford is simply buying time. It may have little to do with demand.

But what about the First Edition? A ha. They’ve made it evident that towing capacity is locked out. They can’t delay that model. But it’s only specific the First Edition. Whereas if you were to option out a Badlands 4 dr 2.7 Sasquatch with a bunch of options and towing they’d probably kick it back to 2022.

if the heaviest 4 door 2.7l is 5320. We could back into a couple things from Ford website and general logic. The 2.7L is a heavier engine. 152 lb heavier based on Fords numbers. Also, a Black Diamond and Badlands have probably 200+ lbs of added weight from steel bumpers, bash plates and sliders. And what’s the difference between a 4 door 2.7 Badlands sas vs non sas? Not much. Maybe within 100-150 lbs. Similar suspension and the 35” tires are also C load, so it’s just some added weight in the tires and misc parts.

So a heavily built 4 dr 2.7 non sas badlands may be almost 5200 lbs. And the sas version at 5300. Then winch, towing capacity etc makes things worse and it could get kicked to 2022.

A Wildtrak is probably weighs less than a 2.7 non sas BL. So what builds are too heavy that they may get kicked out to 2022 to get improved weight/GVWR

4 door 2.7 BL sas
4 door 2.7 BD sas
4 door 2.7 BL non sas with heavy options or towing etc

or anything heavily built up that gets up there in weight. Like maybe a 4 dr sas OBX with steel bumper, etc.

Hence the need to say that some 2.7L and sasquatches may be delayed.

Then think about what models we have seen at MAP - sasquatches have been Wildtrack, OBX etc. have we seen a 4 dr Sasquatch paired with the 200+ lbs of armor on a BL or a BD in 4 door trim? I don’t think so. And if we did, maybe they had fewer options checked off.

So I think some things Ford is saying about delays due to high demand may also be about kicking heavier models out to 2022 until they resolve the weight/GVWR.

Could be wrong. Or right...however they could still working on resolving this now for 2021. Or maybe they have more workarounds with DIO to keep the weight down on the vehicle when it leaves the factory and the payload sticker is printed.

This all clicked with me, so figured I would put it out there.
Sponsored

 

ZackDanger

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Z
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Threads
23
Messages
6,451
Reaction score
28,975
Location
Massachusetts
Vehicle(s)
2021 Toyota 4Runner
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
@jaruss01 Hi. I love you, and you’ve taught me a ton in the last week or so...

... but I’m worried about you, bud.

I think it would do you some good to think about some stuff other than GVWR for a bit.

How about taking up bird watching... or watercolor?

;)
 

Sponsored

Drex

Banned
Badlands
Banned
Banned
First Name
Jake
Joined
Jan 4, 2020
Threads
11
Messages
2,338
Reaction score
7,076
Location
various, construction engineer.
Vehicle(s)
'13 SLK55 AMG, '15 Indian Chief, '15 WRX
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
So your middle of the night theory (A) is that Ford will choose to delay a percentage of similar builds so that they can surprise random customers who (and knew the payload numbers when they ordered) they forced to wait, with higher carrying capacity that the purchase obviously wasn't concerned enough to stop them at order time? All vehicle customers love to be forced to wait another model year to get a slightly improved payload number! No downside there.


I like my conspiracy theory better, I just made it up in my head right now; (B)Ford underestimated what they could charge the people who wanted Sasquatch and the 2.7. They felt that raising prices on those options now would be a public relations nightmare, so they decided to delay profits by delaying production until next model year so they could raise the price for those two options and hiding the increase in a base price increase across the board. Thus getting more money at a later time.

Or, (C) they want to churn out trucks now, strike while the iron is hot and their suppliers cannot handle the short term demand for expensive options that nobody planned on being so popular in an atmosphere of unpredictable legal, governmental, and medical uncertainty?

Tough choice.... I think I'm going with that supplier thing though. (C) for me.
 
OP
OP
jaruss01

jaruss01

Outer Banks
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Threads
149
Messages
2,925
Reaction score
5,331
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
2021 XC90 T6 R-Design / 2020 S60 T6 AWD
Your Bronco Model
Outer Banks
Haha. I enjoy putting 30 minutes aside and trying to crack into the stuff and solving it. I think all of the politics and messages are very carefully framed, and we SHOULD look into it. For what it's worth, I called the mod tops, then called the black tops. And also worked through the '33s will fit thread', and got most dimensions pretty spot on - 0.4" extra lift on Sas vs Badlands (ford confirmed @ 10 mm) 8.8" from steering knuckle to mounting face (confirmed in scaling photos later released)...So all these exercises have been pretty rewarding, although some lead to bad news.

Besides, I am modeling out in excel 10 hrs a anyway. This is just basic stuff.
 
OP
OP
jaruss01

jaruss01

Outer Banks
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Threads
149
Messages
2,925
Reaction score
5,331
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
2021 XC90 T6 R-Design / 2020 S60 T6 AWD
Your Bronco Model
Outer Banks
So your middle of the night theory (A) is that Ford will choose to delay a percentage of similar builds so that they can surprise random customers who (and knew the payload numbers when they ordered) they forced to wait, with higher carrying capacity that the purchase obviously wasn't concerned enough to stop them at order time? All vehicle customers love to be forced to wait another model year to get a slightly improved payload number! No downside there.


I like my conspiracy theory better, I just made it up in my head right now; (B)Ford underestimated what they could charge the people who wanted Sasquatch and the 2.7. They felt that raising prices on those options now would be a public relations nightmare, so they decided to delay profits by delaying production until next model year so they could raise the price for those two options and hiding the increase in a base price increase across the board. Thus getting more money at a later time.

Or, (C) they want to churn out trucks now, strike while the iron is hot and their suppliers cannot handle the short term demand for expensive options that nobody planned on being so popular in an atmosphere of unpredictable legal, governmental, and medical uncertainty?

Tough choice.... I think I'm going with that supplier thing though. (C) for me.
I laid this all out during the day. But couldn’t fall back asleep last night and decided to write it up. What I’m saying is that Ford knows there are weight and GVWR issues. Some of these builds become very heavy when you have either a heavily optioned Badlands with steel parts, or a Sasquatch that also has heavier items. They’ve also said they are having difficulty tracking and calculating added weight. They’ve also laid out how DIO will work (also due to weight). Lastly, they seem to have some level of confidence that this will somehow be resolved in 2022.

So to protect themselves they claim that 2.7 and Sasquatch (which are prerequisites for heavier builds) could be delayed. I personally don’t think it’s a coincidence. I just hope they get this sorted out over the next month or two. If they can’t solve the weight issues for 2021 they’re only option is to increase GVWR for certain trims. Otherwise, this will have to be worked out in 2022.

While we were all complaining about BnP updates, I think most of the delays and legwork had to do with what configurations they need to lock out due to weight. If they end up having the appropriate lock outs in place, the hope is that these heavier builds don’t get delayed and BnP was designed well enough as a payload tool. But we shall see.
 
Last edited:

Drex

Banned
Badlands
Banned
Banned
First Name
Jake
Joined
Jan 4, 2020
Threads
11
Messages
2,338
Reaction score
7,076
Location
various, construction engineer.
Vehicle(s)
'13 SLK55 AMG, '15 Indian Chief, '15 WRX
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Seriously though, you are fixated on this weight thing. There is no 'fix' needed. There is no way to get to the bottom and solve the GVWR problem because there is no GVWR/cargo capacity problem. The problem that you have is that the carrying capacity is unsuitable for YOUR needs. Not that the vehicle is unsuitable for its designed purpose.

Not designed as a cargo hauler, but as a specialized tool to G.O.A.T. Not to G.O.A.T with family and two weeks of off the grid food, water, and gear. Just because it doesn't do what you want doesn't mean it is broken.
 

GToddC5

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Todd
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Threads
12
Messages
2,041
Reaction score
7,543
Location
South Jersey
Website
www.bronco6g.com
Vehicle(s)
2021 Bronco, 1971 Toyota FJ40, 1998 Corvette 'vert
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
You could be on to something. We do know that Bronco frame uses a small percentage of lighter weight material, so it is conceivable that they could raise the percentage used to lower the weight, thereby allowing more options and charge more for it, in '22.
 

Sponsored

Lakelife36

Big Bend
Well-Known Member
First Name
Ben
Joined
Jul 25, 2020
Threads
17
Messages
1,755
Reaction score
2,486
Location
Interior of BC
Vehicle(s)
2010 Kia Borrego, 2012 Chevy Cruze, 2022 Bronco
Your Bronco Model
Big Bend
Clubs
 
Seriously though, you are fixated on this weight thing. There is no 'fix' needed. There is no way to get to the bottom and solve the GVWR problem because there is no GVWR/cargo capacity problem. The problem that you have is that the carrying capacity is unsuitable for YOUR needs. Not that the vehicle is unsuitable for its designed purpose.

Not designed as a cargo hauler, but as a specialized tool to G.O.A.T. Not to G.O.A.T with family and two weeks of off the grid food, water, and gear. Just because it doesn't do what you want doesn't mean it is broken.
Dude it comes with a 4-door model
 
 


Top