this whole thing has illuminated how the dealership mafia is bad for car owners. elon was right. Direct to door has to happen

[TJconvert2.7]

No means no. Unless you’re talking to a Finance guy.

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[RoLyMa27]

Or, instead of buying off a dealer by purchasing over-priced oil changes, I could do it myself for $30 and know that the drain bolt didn't get re-installed with an impact wrench.

Hey Jim, first let me say that the quote you used was not promoting oil changes it was promoting my contention that buying a car from a dealership does not have to be bad and I don't mind buying a car from a dealer and I quite enjoy it.

Second, you can buy a car from just about any dealer now totally online, If that's what you want. You can make the deal, sign the paperwork digitally and I can tell you without a doubt my dealer would deliver it to me!

Third, it's about building a relationship with the dealer and the People that work there. I am saying that by doing things like just going in and talking to them and get to know them, get your oil changed etc...

Fourth, I have changed my own oil for years! Back in the day when a quart of Quaker State was less that $2 and a Fram oil filter was $3, I literally changed my own oil for under $15!

This was my last oil change in March. The works also includes rotating the tires, filling all fluids, etc...they even put new wiper blades on for me that I supplied - no charge. If I had paid for it it would have been $45.71, I used pass points so no charge. I have 31,000 miles now on my truck and have not paid for a single oil change. I believe that was my fifth oil change. I don't have to worry about the used oil, tires rotated etc...I believe that's worth $15. Not to mention while the oil is getting changed I am inside talking to the sales manager. Dan is his name and his wife is a teacher. I'm also talking to the Fleet sales manager about my Bronco order, etc...

Fifth- Not all dealers are assholes with incompetent rubes working in the service department. I contend that is the exception not the rule.

Sixth - Soap Box time - In our rush to eliminate the need to interact with a human in all areas of our lives we are not calculating the cost to our society. It's going to be a pretty shitty world to live in, IMO.

 

[Tonka Bronka]

Just for kicks after I received my build date yesterday, ( buying at SAC), I called my local dealer to see if they ever decided where they are going to be with their pricing. They still would not tell me! Glad I ran from Stuckey Ford in Hollidaysburg PA, Hi Sean!

 

[jwoobs]

Hey Jim, first let me say that the quote you used was not promoting oil changes it was promoting my contention that buying a car from a dealership does not have to be bad and I don't mind buying a car from a dealer and I quite enjoy it.

Sixth - Soap Box time - In our rush to eliminate the need to interact with a human in all areas of our lives we are not calculating the cost to our society. It's going to be a pretty shitty world to live in, IMO.

Sorry if I came off a little brash; as fun as it is to all hop on the OP bandwagon and slam dealers, I do appreciate that some people actually enjoy the experience. My parents live in a rural area, and one of their best friends is a car salesman. So I also appreciate that honest, hardworking people make a living selling cars. In fact, I'm going back to the same salesperson as I bought my last Ford from.

Having said that, I've got a couple reasons why my view might be so soured.

1) Living in a city, it's hard not to shop around. There's probably 2 dozen Ford dealers within an hour of me. And after a little shopping around, you start to wonder, why do I care about the dealer? What I really want is the car, at the end of the day, and FoMoCo makes that.

2) I don't mind the people, it's the business model I hate. Over the winter I watched a lot of shark tank / the profit. And when you start looking at the margins on things, it can be pretty eye-opening. Cars are already hugely expensive, why am I paying an extra 5-15% to a dealer for the privilege of buying one?

2B) The auto manufacturers did this to themselves. Back when they tried to shaft the dealers by making them buy inventory during the great depression, the dealer lobby formed to pass laws protecting dealers. In the internet era, the selling function a dealer probably isn't as useful, but in many states it is enshrined in law that only dealers can sell new cars.

3) I think I've only ever had my oil changed at the dealer when it was free (so 2x, maybe). Having said that, my GF must have gotten wall-jobbed at her dealer, or the techs were truly incompetent. Engine grenaded on her way home from lack of oil. Thank goodness she had all her oil changes at the dealer, because they warrantied the replacement engine.

But I will argue it's better to not have your engine blow up, than it is to be well taken care of if it does. And sadly from my experience, the only way to guarantee that is to do your maintenance yourself. But I say this as someone that has rebuilt an engine from the crankshaft up, replaced wheel bearings, changed a ring and pinion and more. So my mistrust of automotive shops is enabled by the fact there's a decent chance I've been deeper into a car than some of their techs.

 

[Rick Astley]

Not committing tax fraud is quite literally the bare minimum.

Not to mention the tax preparation lobby suffers from the same problem as the dealership lobby, They are worried if it becomes too easy, no one will buy their product.




Or, instead of buying off a dealer by purchasing over-priced oil changes, I could do it myself for $30 and know that the drain bolt didn't get re-installed with an impact wrench.

The competition would still exist in a direct sales model, but between brands, not dealers. If dealers disappeared tomorrow, Ford wouldn't jack up the price of the explorer, because they still know you can go to Kia and get a mid size SUV for $28,000. Heck, even the Bronco would still be reasonably priced, as it has the Wrangler to compete against.

I work with mostly well diversified tech clients and multi-nationals. Our returns can vary from 5 to 60 billable hours for prep time.

I wish them the absolute best of luck with turbo-tax, multiple-choice storytelling is the BEST way to interpret tax law.

 

[cardinalsfan]

But why should you need to? Ford took your rsvp, they let you do the B&P, they communicate with you about the build and delivery dates...why do you even need to go to any dealer, let alone a "good one"?

I understand many people are going through Granger, and they seem like stand up folks, but why does it make sense that a customer should have to drive or fly to a dealership at all?

Cut out the dealer profit, create Ford Concierge, and make it service based. Somebody delivers the vehicle, prepped, ready to go. They teach you about the vehicle, set up your profile for tech and seats...all that stuff. The dealers can become customer service centers, where they focus just on customer needs, but door delivery concierge is where its at.

Why should I need to? Because crappy dealers exist. Dealers that convert your day 1 reservation to an order without asking you. Dealers that then lie about converting it and play dumb when you ask them. Dealers that get caught lying and still have the balls to ask what they can do to keep your order with them. Dealers that laugh in your face when you tell them you can switch to another dealer at below MSRP and tell you no one is doing that and why would I want to buy below MSRP anyways, that'll lower my resale value (swear to God he said that). Dealers that refuse to cancel or release orders despite being caught in lies and eventually have to be told by Ford to cancel or lose their allocation for other orders they do have.

I'm in full agreement that dealers don't need to exist - but the ability to change dealers is absolutely a need.

 

[azbittel]

I RSVP online, did my B&P online, took the B&P to the dealership so they could input my info into their computer and I paid them a deposit. I will then have to go back to them, pick up the vehicle.

At some point, I am doing more work than them, but paying a premium and absorbing the risk, for lesser service and knowledge.

The model is defunct and their existence is becoming obsolete.

Very succinct.

I went in, asked to change my order so I could get my Bronco sooner and they looked at me like I had seven heads. Told me changing my order would delay my build EVEN MORE solely because I was changing it. I told them I have read the dealer emails and know what I am talking about, and that removing two of the "sinful 4" would help my chances. They shrugged, appeased my request, and reluctantly changed my order while acting like I was wasting their time...

Less than 24 hours later my build was scheduled for July 12th. I called them and told them it worked and they were again, dumbfounded. This is the largest Ford dealership in Syracuse to boot. My particular agent was very nice, but no one was at all knowledgeable about half of the info going on in this forum. Just let me order my shit and kill the middle man, there is no purpose to them whatsoever.

Fuck stealer-ships. I hope dealerships as we know them die with the boomers, but I will happy to see them go with gen x too.

 

[GoTigersGoBronco]

As someone who has gone through the buying process with the big automaker that sells direct, it was marginally worse than buying from a dealership. Kinda underlines why the whole process looks challenging is because it has lots of challenges.

I don't believe that direct sales would result in lower prices. The automakers aren't going to spend tens of billions to build and service automobiles, but demand no return on those investments. I do think the overall experience could be better if vertically integrated.

 

[rugbysecondrow]

Actually when you buy a Tesla, you have no choice but to pay MSRP (full mark-up). At least with a dealer, you can shop them against each other for the best price. Even though most people don't like to negotiate, the dealer model is the best free-market model for consumers to get the best deal as opposed to factory-direct sales where there is no price competition.

What you say is possible, but not the rule. What you ignore are sales tactics, hidden pricing/costs, misinformation etc that plague the dealership buying process. If this were auction style, then you might be more correct.

Fixed, pricing works, on a macro level, and successfully

Why should I need to? Because crappy dealers exist. Dealers that convert your day 1 reservation to an order without asking you. Dealers that then lie about converting it and play dumb when you ask them. Dealers that get caught lying and still have the balls to ask what they can do to keep your order with them. Dealers that laugh in your face when you tell them you can switch to another dealer at below MSRP and tell you no one is doing that and why would I want to buy below MSRP anyways, that'll lower my resale value (swear to God he said that). Dealers that refuse to cancel or release orders despite being caught in lies and eventually have to be told by Ford to cancel or lose their allocation for other orders they do have.

I'm in full agreement that dealers don't need to exist - but the ability to change dealers is absolutely a need.

That my point, why should we even have to use a dealer?

 

[1975U15]

So let me see if I have this right.

Bitching about dealership experience= Absolutely Amen brother

Bitching about the Ford Bronco experience= Shut the eff up you whiny cry baby.

Am I close?

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