this whole thing has illuminated how the dealership mafia is bad for car owners. elon was right. Direct to door has to happen

[BadSquatch22]

Too many people want to take home a car the same day for dealer lots to go away entirely but I would love a world where at the end of B&P we clicked add to cart and could select 2 day shipping.

I guess you can do that with a Tesla! Why waste time haggling over the price and hidden fees, when you can order your vehicle directly from the factory with no BS mark-up.

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[Monster1926]

im pretty sure most people would pay the shipping cost too

You pay for shipping now.

But they're not really good for warranty work, because they're squeezed from both ends. If they acknowledge that the issue is warranty-related, they have to get it approved by Ford and then they receive a very limited reimbursement for the work depending on how much time Ford decides it should take and how much the job is worth. For non-warranty work, they have much more flexibility in diagnosis and repair in order to maximize profit (read: wring out the customer). So dealerships have every incentive to avoid claiming something is eligible for warranty coverage.

I've had dealerships flat out deny my car was leaking oil in order to avoid having to do an extensive warranty repair. Instead they claimed it was transmission fluid and was "repaired" by tightening a drain plug on the transmission, for which I was charged $70 (no parts replaced = no warranty coverage). The oil was dripping again as soon as I got home.

Or how the same dealership continues to be "unable to replicate" a pervasive, obvious issue for which there's an existing TSB, I assume because the fix is incredibly labor-intensive and they would lose money by doing the fix because Ford wouldn't reimburse them enough. So I've paid them $70 twice now for diagnoses that accomplished nothing and I keep getting cracked in the head by a liftgate that closes itself.

My wife actually overheard the employees ask each other why they were doing warranty work for us even though we didn't purchase the car there. That's not how warranty work works - it doesn't matter where we bought the vehicle, if it needs fixed it needs fixed, factory warranty doesn't hinge on where I bought it.

If you really believe in the free market, then allow competition between dealerships and direct-to-customer sales and see who survives.

I know how it works.

 

[Paul Gagnon]

A long long time ago, I bought a Saturn as a young person starting out in my early 20's. And that was the last time I had a good experience buying a car. They were genuinely onto something with the whole "it costs this much, no matter how well you think you can negotiate. Let's help you get set up with some financing".

Naturally, GM killed it.

Kia uses a model similar to this. The cars are priced fairly and there isn't much wiggle room on the price so there's none of the "I have to ask my manager" runaround.

 

[Gamecock]

I'd say it gives us opportunity to find a good one. So many folks rushed for 'the deal' instead of the dealership.

It seems on here, that the dealers with the best deals also offer the best customer service. They want the business and earn it. The arrogant dealers who think it is a privilege for you to buy from them are the worst.

 

[HotdogThud]

Tesla outsources to facilities that want to buy their diagnostic program and proprietary software and have highly skilled monkeys who know how to use a USB port and can actually read the English language! If you needed to know how to restart your computer to fix all problems, these are your guys!

Oh come on dude, USB ports and rebooting cars? don't be so pedantic. Sometimes, they even use really fancy tools, like hammers.

Hammers.

https://jalopnik.com/here-s-how-tesla-tsbs-expose-manufacturing-troubles-1846016877

 

[Tdifonzo]

I can tell you are not one to modify your vehicles.

Not true. I enjoy some mods but 95% of people don't and that is who car manufacturers will aim to please. Especially if we get to fully electric/fully autonomous cars. Not sure many people will want to modify a car they don't even drive. Lol

 

[rugbysecondrow]

I hear what you are saying regarding the past, and 100% disagree with your assessment of the future. Don't discount the power of the consumer for force change. CarMax, Carvana and others are setting the tone for how new car buying customers want to do business.


I have actually been very happy with the Bronco experience. The only exception has been working with the dealership.

It's clear we're talking about dealerships. Those include sales/finance/service. You can't cherry pick one with the exclusion of the other without resetting the entire landscape.

That landscape essentially cannot be reset due to the myriad of labor agreements, franchise laws, OEM/Franchise contracts, federal regs, etc.

So you must look at what they are, not what you want them to be.

And frankly, for 95-98% of customers, the dealership works just fine for sales. the vast majority of customers haven't done the legwork to determine their own credit score, let alone competitive financing to compare against captive. Yes, this is slowly changing with the lending applications being available online and in ways that require near-zero customer knowledge about the process.

What "we" (as in the 1% of owners who are focused and informed and interested in a specific vehicle and features, plus we understand more about the automotive sector as a whole) expect from our dealership experience is unrealistic. I see this regularly in my daily work. My clients do not associate "value" with the accuracy of their tax return, or that complex tax situations were recorded properly and in full IRS regulatory compliance. They associate "value" almost exclusively to "how much was my refund?". Nothing could be further from the truth for what value was provided but I must understand that is their perspective and almost exclusively the only metric that they use to conceptualize "value". Again, the vast number of customers are uninformed as to what they want and most have no clue what they are looking for beyond "a vehicle", and could not articulate their needs to another human. How do you provide a vehicle purchasing environment which that person will associate with "value"? How do you cater to "I have no clue what I want, but you aren't answering my non-questions properly"?

Frankly, there's a lot of drug use in the auto sales industry and you have a career path that many find requires zero specialty knowledge, training or experience to enter the field.

Tesla hasn't changed much aside from having an incredibly small client base of quasi to well-educated, well-heeled buyers which are so far above the "average car buyer" that it's laughable there are connections made to John Q Public.

FWIW, i've been in sales during my late teen years and dealt with the cash-only drug dealer customer, and the tweaker person who won't remember they were even there, or rich person trying to show of to some beautiful cheap floozie and get some action before his marriage collapses. John Q Public is vast and scary in how extreme it can be. Dealerships must work with them all and frankly, the line they hold is one that works with that variety, surprisingly.

 

[RoLyMa27]

ended up at another very small one out in the country who has been fantastic to work with. Choose wisely.

I happen to like buying a car through a dealership. First thing is find a dealer you like and get to know them (usually a small town dealer) establish a relationship. Get your oil changed there. If they don't have what I want i go in and tell them what I want and they go do a dealer trade and get it from another dealer. I have all my ducks in a row, armed for battle! I tell the salesman what I am willing to pay for a vehicle and let the games begin. I have done that many times in the 35 or so years I have been buying vehicles. Every now and then they come back and say deal. Sometimes we go back and forth, sometimes I get up and walk (wait for the call that almost always comes!) Sometimes I compromise, now keep in mind I also have reasonable expectations,..You can't walk in and say I want that $50,000 Bronco for 30K. I usually start around 15-18% off so for a $50k vehicle My first offer is gonna be around 42ish. I have walked into the sales manager's room before and told them to stop f&%^$^g around and sell me the damn car -(especially if I have bought from them before) That has worked a few times. You just gotta know how to talk/deal with them. I am not a bad-ass car buying guru or anything like that. I just am not afraid to get in there and mix it up with them and they don't intimidate me! My current F150, Is a 2019, bought in Jan of 20(helps to know when to buy also) Stickered for 55K I walked out the door 45K @ 1.9 apr and enough Ford Pass points for 6 oil changes.

 

[jaspercasidino]

I happen to like buying a car through a dealership. First thing is find a dealer you like and get to know them (usually a small town dealer) establish a relationship. Get your oil changed there. If they don't have what I want i go in and tell them what I want and they go do a dealer trade and get it from another dealer. I have all my ducks in a row, armed for battle! I tell the salesman what I am willing to pay for a vehicle and let the games begin. I have done that many times in the 35 or so years I have been buying vehicles. Every now and then they come back and say deal. Sometimes we go back and forth, sometimes I get up and walk (wait for the call that almost always comes!) Sometimes I compromise, now keep in mind I also have reasonable expectations,..You can't walk in and say I want that $50,000 Bronco for 30K. I usually start around 15-18% off so for a $50k vehicle My first offer is gonna be around 42ish. I have walked into the sales manager's room before and told them to stop f&%^$^g around and sell me the damn car -(especially if I have bought from them before) That has worked a few times. You just gotta know how to talk/deal with them. I am not a bad-ass car buying guru or anything like that. I just am not afraid to get in there and mix it up with them and they don't intimidate me! My current F150, Is a 2019, bought in Jan of 20(helps to know when to buy also) Stickered for 55K I walked out the door 45K @ 1.9 apr and enough Ford Pass points for 6 oil changes.

None of that process is appealing to me. I just want to buy a car for a reasonable price and drive home. Not spend time getting to know someone who is selling me a product and I don’t want to haggle on the price or deal with the “I’ll have to talk to my manager” nonsense. Last car I bought was through Autonation. They don’t haggle and their price was fair in my opinion. That was a fine process until the upselling on warranties, maintenance, interior protection plans, external clear wrap protection.

 

[RoLyMa27]

CarMax, Carvana and others are setting the tone for how new car buying customers want to do business.

What's gonna suck IMO, is when brick and mortar stores dry up and every damn thing has to be bought on the line! Already happening in my town as Beall's and JCPenney just closed. Now I have to drive almost an hour to buy clothes. What's gonna happen when all the businesses go away? Well Rodney they will just work at Amazon..Nope! Bezos will have all his warehouses fully automated in less than 10 years and autonomous vehicles will be delivering the stuff! BUY LOCAL PEOPLE! Go to the damn store and interact with people get off the damn phone! Go to the dealership and talk to them, get to know them, they're real people with families!....Whew...I'm Done!

 

[RoLyMa27]

None of that process is appealing to me. I just want to buy a car for a reasonable price and drive home. Not spend time getting to know someone who is selling me a product and I don’t want to haggle on the price or deal with the “I’ll have to talk to my manager” nonsense. Last car I bought was through Autonation. They don’t haggle and their price was fair in my opinion. That was a fine process until the upselling on warranties, maintenance, interior protection plans, external clear wrap protection.

Just say no brother! respectfully decline and in no uncertain terms tell them the deal is off if they don't stop that shit!

 

[dgorsett]

I was just logged in to the Ford website and was asked to complete a survey. They asked many questions about completing a sale completely online. Maybe Ford is considering going to direct online sales. I would definitely go for that.

 

[AKBronc49]

being disconnected from the lower 48, shipping times..ect make my view on this different. I also work in the truck upfitting business so we work very closely with the fleet departments of every local dealer. You would be amazed at the number of customers who either can't or don't plan ahead to purchase 1-10 vehicles. Due to our remote state it takes (normally) 30-45 days from leaving the factory for a vehicle to arrive here. This means they need stock, plenty of it.

The build to order idea is great but won't work for the number of retail and more so fleet customers who need vehicles right now.

I'm working with a customer right now that typically buys Fords, just purchased 7 RAM trucks because they were on the lot and by contract they had to have the vehicles on the job site 6/1/21.

 

[rugbysecondrow]

What's gonna suck IMO, is when brick and mortar stores dry up and every damn thing has to be bought on the line! Already happening in my town as Beall's and JCPenney just closed. Now I have to drive almost an hour to buy clothes. What's gonna happen when all the businesses go away? Well Rodney they will just work at Amazon..Nope! Bezos will have all his warehouses fully automated in less than 10 years and autonomous vehicles will be delivering the stuff! BUY LOCAL PEOPLE! Go to the damn store and interact with people get off the damn phone! Go to the dealership and talk to them, get to know them, they're real people with families!....Whew...I'm Done!

I own two local businesses, so I get it. I stayed with my local dealership instead of transferring for this very reason. That said, I also provide great service and I don't take my customers for granted. My model also had to adjust during this past year to accommodate my customers needs.

 

[Mike Mc]

None of that process is appealing to me. I just want to buy a car for a reasonable price and drive home. Not spend time getting to know someone who is selling me a product and I don’t want to haggle on the price or deal with the “I’ll have to talk to my manager” nonsense. Last car I bought was through Autonation. They don’t haggle and their price was fair in my opinion. That was a fine process until the upselling on warranties, maintenance, interior protection plans, external clear wrap protection.

Sticker is quicker

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