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mcdoogs

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Can we stop talking about the defender like it’s legitimate competition? It’s a vehicle for clout chasers who can’t afford a Range Rover Sport.
I like both Broncos and Defenders. Guess I'm a 'clout chaser.'

I'm picking up my Defender next week to go with my Bronco though, so I obviously can afford a RR Sport. Try again you twat.
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combatninja

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Kind of agree. I'm a car enthusiast so I was happy to see the Defender return to North America and picked one up. It has been surprisingly reliable, competent off the road and way better than anything that size and shape has a right to be on the road. It has its quirks but it is a very good off road car. As far as not being able to afford a Range Rover Sport, not the case but I was never interested in that car regardless. The Velar is for people that are looking for that image/capability but their budget does not stretch to RR Sport let alone the full fat Rangie. I think you'd be surprised how many of the Defender customers are coming in from other brands like Toyota (Landcruiser, GXs, Sequoias) and even from Mercedes G-Wagons now that they start at $130K. It has cannibalized Discovery sales to a small extent ever since the Disco went all mall-crawler with the death of the boxy LR4 years ago. Once people stop comparing it to the old Defender (which the new one can destroy off-road, btw--provided the electronics don't fail) and think of it as the new, new Discovery, they will feel better.
 

Peter Gosenya

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Let me guess, the heavier more deflated larger tire won. Exciting.
 

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I wish Ford still owned Land Rover, and made a Defender derivative off the Bronco/Ranger platform. Upped the towing capacity, metal (still modular) roof, and subtle styling.

While I love my Wildtrak, the (real) Defender has been the forbidden front of utility vehicles in North America. The Bronco is more about fun and adventure, the Defender was something you could work in the fields with in the morning and then drive to your tailor in London in the afternoon. Much like America, country life has always been prestigious in the UK (Roast Beef vs the Haute Cuisine of Paris), and an alternative to the great F150 would be welcome.

It's too bad they sold their roots to the highest bidder. I hope that America isn't on the same path in the future.
 

VictoryLights

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I like both Broncos and Defenders. Guess I'm a 'clout chaser.'

I'm picking up my Defender next week to go with my Bronco though, so I obviously can afford a RR Sport. Try again you twat.
Cool. Enjoy it. I had a few drinks in me when I wrote that and definitely sounded like a twat lol.
 
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Efthreeoh

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I’ve been following the Ineos saga from the outset. Seems an interesting descendant of the real Defender, but the vagaries of dealer and parts support worries me, vague comments like “we can ship parts and mechanics to anywhere in the world “ notwithstanding.
Never heard of the Grenadier until this thread. So it looks like it uses a BMW drivetrain, but the website doesn't specify which BMW engine. I suspect it is the BMW B58, which is their newest and current 3.0L; I don't think BMW still has the N55 (predecessor) in production. It's a closed-deck design and the engine block is shared with BMW's B57 diesel, so it's a stout block able to take high levels of boost. It has both VANOS and Valvetronic. I have 2 versions of BMW's non-turbo N52 that use both VANOS and Valvetronic. Valvetronic eliminates the need for a throttle body plate, which improves throttling efficiency. I have serious high miles on one of the N52s and both valve manipulation systems are highly reliable.

Being a 30+ year BMW owner, the great thing with BMW is they keep new parts in stock easily 20 years past the last production date of a model. Bad thing with BMW engines is after 100,000 miles or so, they start leaking oil at the valve cover and oil pan, and at the oil filter housing.
 

jackwise

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Stupid and harmless? Not harmless to your transmission.
 

See_Later_Alligator

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Kind of agree. I'm a car enthusiast so I was happy to see the Defender return to North America and picked one up. It has been surprisingly reliable, competent off the road and way better than anything that size and shape has a right to be on the road. It has its quirks but it is a very good off road car. As far as not being able to afford a Range Rover Sport, not the case but I was never interested in that car regardless. The Velar is for people that are looking for that image/capability but their budget does not stretch to RR Sport let alone the full fat Rangie. I think you'd be surprised how many of the Defender customers are coming in from other brands like Toyota (Landcruiser, GXs, Sequoias) and even from Mercedes G-Wagons now that they start at $130K. It has cannibalized Discovery sales to a small extent ever since the Disco went all mall-crawler with the death of the boxy LR4 years ago. Once people stop comparing it to the old Defender (which the new one can destroy off-road, btw--provided the electronics don't fail) and think of it as the new, new Discovery, they will feel better.
id like to see modular roof on defender
 

mcdoogs

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Never heard of the Grenadier until this thread. So it looks like it uses a BMW drivetrain, but the website doesn't specify which BMW engine. I suspect it is the BMW B58, which is their newest and current 3.0L; I don't think BMW still has the N55 (predecessor) in production. It's a closed-deck design and the engine block is shared with BMW's B57 diesel, so it's a stout block able to take high levels of boost. It has both VANOS and Valvetronic. I have 2 versions of BMW's non-turbo N52 that use both VANOS and Valvetronic. Valvetronic eliminates the need for a throttle body plate, which improves throttling efficiency. I have serious high miles on one of the N52s and both valve manipulation systems are highly reliable.

Being a 30+ year BMW owner, the great thing with BMW is they keep new parts in stock easily 20 years past the last production date of a model. Bad thing with BMW engines is after 100,000 miles or so, they start leaking oil at the valve cover and oil pan, and at the oil filter housing.
The Grenadier is a cool idea, and it fully leans into the retro so-fugly-its-cool design.

However, for me, I'm not keen on buying a first year and model car of any type from a new manufacturer. Not to mention the starting price actually puts it above the P300 Defender (this is the base model) and goes up to like 120k. And finally there is the little issue of service which I assume will be some sort of deal with BMW at least here in the states.
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