Trail Militia is going there: 74Weld vs Werewolf Portals

[5GENIDN]

Maybe being a delivery within California they didn’t package it as thoroughly. Then the delivery guy said “eff these heavy ass boxes. Over this shit”

Surprised our delivery guys haven’t given up. But I do always help them when I see them pull up

Delivery guys around here are really nice... they let me move it all I want. Sometimes they even help me.

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[Fordified1]

Packaging would depend on how far they are shipped probably. From Europe would need badass crates.

From FedEx would need indestructible box with a homing device lol.

 

[userdude]

Mine were all on a pallet and wrapped in saran wrap.... boxes were unmolested and inside spray foam around every part....

That's how mine looked. I didn't think at the time anything of it, but in contrast with the Werewolf stuff, it looks a little... uninspired. Cuz y'know, in this internet age, everyone's gotta anticipate the unboxing video vis a vis marketing. But as you said later, it does look a frumpy in the TM video, but maybe it's been sitting there awhile.

 

[SierraBronco]

Here’s a picture that shows it

maybe @87-Z28 could provide some input on what he believes the UCA mounting offset could do for the steering, if anything

 

[jonesh242]

Thanks for throwing this content out there! Interested to see the rest of the process and results. I've priced 100 different suspension set ups and portals look pretty good when all is said and done. Only question for me is, do they make sense on my 4dr daily driver?

 

[userdude]

Thanks for throwing this content out there! Interested to see the rest of the process and results. I've priced 100 different suspension set ups and portals look pretty good when all is said and done. Only question for me is, do they make sense on my 4dr daily driver?

That's a good question. There's the fluid maintenance and whatnot, plus the extra strain maybe on the suspension/steering parts to consider. @SierraBronco @5GENIDN You guys daily drive (or your wife does)?

 

[5GENIDN]

That's a good question. There's the fluid maintenance and whatnot, plus the extra strain maybe on the suspension/steering parts to consider. @SierraBronco @5GENIDN You guys daily drive (or your wife does)?

I do not daily mine but I would be fine if I did... I need my truck for work. I drive it on the weekends and it does great.... It is a lot more fun to drive than the truck. It is quicker than the truck (A 2009 GMC Canyon lifted 5 inches with 35s, a 5.3 V8 and 4.11 diffs.).

 

[Lcubed]

That's how mine looked. I didn't think at the time anything of it, but in contrast with the Werewolf stuff, it looks a little... uninspired. Cuz y'know, in this internet age, everyone's gotta anticipate the unboxing video vis a vis marketing. But as you said later, it does look a frumpy in the TM video, but maybe it's been sitting there awhile.

if the individual WEREWOLF pieces were twice as heavy as what
5GENIDN showed, i'm not surprised by the heavier duty packaging.

they are being shipped from/through a potential warzone (bulgaria and ukraine)

 

[TeocaliMG]

maybe @87-Z28 could provide some input on what he believes the UCA mounting offset could do for the steering, if anything

It's hard to tell if there is truly any change in geometry from that offset. The stock knuckle for example has an offset that looks similar. The path the knuckle takes doesn't define the geometry, though it is probably best to have shorter more direct load paths.

You'd have to compare the relationships between the location of the upper/lower/steering ball joint taper centers and the wheel center to see if any of the kinematics are actually different.

 

[userdude]

if the individual WEREWOLF pieces were twice as heavy as what
5GENIDN showed, i'm not surprised by the heavier duty packaging.

they are being shipped from/through a potential warzone (bulgaria and ukraine)

Of course, I didn't demand 74W use fancy crates to ship their (very expensive) wares. Just that plain cardboard boxes don't make great unboxing videos. I mean, we gotta have priorities. Maybe some lasers or underlighting as the portals float out of the box, but that's it!

 

[SierraBronco]

Thanks for throwing this content out there! Interested to see the rest of the process and results. I've priced 100 different suspension set ups and portals look pretty good when all is said and done. Only question for me is, do they make sense on my 4dr daily driver?

The portals were quite a debate for me. Typically I’m of the mindset that simple is best, so the thought of adding all that complexity to each corner was a concern. Ultimately the decision was made to go ahead and get them, seems how doing an oil change every 3000 miles wouldn’t be that big of a deal.

As far as daily driving goes, that’s going to depend on how you define daily driving. In my case, it would be a pain in the ass as I’m driving ~150 miles per day for work and finding a shop to perform service may or may not be a challenge. But for wifey taking it out 20-40 miles a day it’s no biggie. We also had some…call it teething issues…with ours. Manufacturer decided to use an o-ring to seal two flat surfaces, resulting in gear oil covering everything including the frame and fender liners. With ours there is no way to check the oil level and with the other problems we’ve had that’s caused us to change the oil in the fronts four times in 2000 miles. Not sure how much is in there and can’t just dump more in until it starts dripping out the indicator hole like there werewolves have, so might as well change it out and know the correct amount of oil is being used. The four changes aren’t all from the oil leaks as we got fed up waiting on the fix from the manufacturer and found our own solution via Mercedes crush washers, but that takes us into the whole “the brakes are falling off in 200 miles but it’s not a big deal and we aren’t sure why you’re so pissed off about that” situation where we again, got fed up waiting on a solution and spent two grand getting our own custom brackets made from scratch by a local machine shop.

The portal manufacturers all seem to portray these as the ultimate bolt on solution and that may be fine for getting coffee and light wheeling, but I believe there is a lot of additional leverage being placed on the suspension mounts. It’s also a lot more twisting on the axle housing, and there have been many people that have spun their axle housings, breaking the plug welds, just using trail turn assist with bigger tires than factory. We added double shear UCA mounts, welded the axle housings to the diff, and trussed the rear axle. Still considering a Dana60 for the future though. You’ll also have a huge increase in scrub radius, and depending on which brand you go with your wheel options to reduce that will be limited. Our steering rack binds up frequently when wheeling using the stock wheels. The most you can get with 74W on a 17” wheel is +45mm. The werewolves get you +65mm and they are capable of CTIS. Though you’ll be spending I think $2000/wheel for double beadlocked CTIS werewolves.

 

[Fordified1]

It's hard to tell if there is truly any change in geometry from that offset. The stock knuckle for example has an offset that looks similar. The path the knuckle takes doesn't define the geometry, though it is probably best to have shorter more direct load paths.

You'd have to compare the relationships between the location of the upper/lower/steering ball joint taper centers and the wheel center to see if any of the kinematics are actually different.

Yeah, it’s probably just shaped different. The location of the upper ball joint is probably exactly the same.

 

[SierraBronco]

Yeah, it’s probably just shaped different. The location of the upper ball joint is probably exactly the same.

Could just be as simple as making it easier to access the nut

 

[87-Z28]

It's hard to tell if there is truly any change in geometry from that offset. The stock knuckle for example has an offset that looks similar. The path the knuckle takes doesn't define the geometry, though it is probably best to have shorter more direct load paths.

You'd have to compare the relationships between the location of the upper/lower/steering ball joint taper centers and the wheel center to see if any of the kinematics are actually different.

This.

From a structural point of view it is better to have direct load paths, like 74 weld portal, and not have the tab that attaches to the UCA joint. However, not an issue if tab can easily handle he offset bending loads that are induced.

I would guess there was a geometric design reason with their gear set that made them choose the knuckle geometry. They likely wanted to keep king pin axis similar to oem so had to introduce a slight offset to mount to oem UCA. Thereby the steering characteristics remain similar. I doubt the offset was introduced to alter steering characteristics.

it would be interesting to gain more insight into their design.

 

[5GENIDN]

The portals were quite a debate for me. Typically I’m of the mindset that simple is best, so the thought of adding all that complexity to each corner was a concern. Ultimately the decision was made to go ahead and get them, seems how doing an oil change every 3000 miles wouldn’t be that big of a deal.

As far as daily driving goes, that’s going to depend on how you define daily driving. In my case, it would be a pain in the ass as I’m driving ~150 miles per day for work and finding a shop to perform service may or may not be a challenge. But for wifey taking it out 20-40 miles a day it’s no biggie. We also had some…call it teething issues…with ours. Manufacturer decided to use an o-ring to seal two flat surfaces, resulting in gear oil covering everything including the frame and fender liners. With ours there is no way to check the oil level and with the other problems we’ve had that’s caused us to change the oil in the fronts four times in 2000 miles. Not sure how much is in there and can’t just dump more in until it starts dripping out the indicator hole like there werewolves have, so might as well change it out and know the correct amount of oil is being used. The four changes aren’t all from the oil leaks as we got fed up waiting on the fix from the manufacturer and found our own solution via Mercedes crush washers, but that takes us into the whole “the brakes are falling off in 200 miles but it’s not a big deal and we aren’t sure why you’re so pissed off about that” situation where we again, got fed up waiting on a solution and spent two grand getting our own custom brackets made from scratch by a local machine shop.

The portal manufacturers all seem to portray these as the ultimate bolt on solution and that may be fine for getting coffee and light wheeling, but I believe there is a lot of additional leverage being placed on the suspension mounts. It’s also a lot more twisting on the axle housing, and there have been many people that have spun their axle housings, breaking the plug welds, just using trail turn assist with bigger tires than factory. We added double shear UCA mounts, welded the axle housings to the diff, and trussed the rear axle. Still considering a Dana60 for the future though. You’ll also have a huge increase in scrub radius, and depending on which brand you go with your wheel options to reduce that will be limited. Our steering rack binds up frequently when wheeling using the stock wheels. The most you can get with 74W on a 17” wheel is +45mm. The werewolves get you +65mm and they are capable of CTIS. Though you’ll be spending I think $2000/wheel for double beadlocked CTIS werewolves.

I believe, and I may be wrong about this but I think the Werewolfs are slightly thicker so that additional positive offest may get you to the same place the 74s do with scrub radius.... I am sure the Tibus portals were thicker because of the type of bearings required for the helical gear set. Now the werewolfs are straight cut but at one time I know they were a thicker design setting the wheel out further.....

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