Trail Militia is going there: 74Weld vs Werewolf Portals

[TeocaliMG]

Just catching up on this now. Dang... Both 6061 and 7075 are incredible materials but its hard to overstate how dang robust steel is. Pound for pound, sure 7075 is better. But parts often cant be build pound for pound but volume per volume. If you have a limited volume to put material in due to package space, steel will beat aluminum every time.

Its one thing to break the tie rod stud pad, but to rip out your LCA ball joint pad is pretty bad. Again, maybe there were install issues. But even if the failure was down to a heat treat issue on the aluminum, it just goes to show why steel is a safe bet. That said, maybe they have an opportunity to add more material here, or even nest in a bolt on steel retainer or something.

For weight purposes, aluminum in most of the upright, or even the LCA's (as they are stock) is a solid bet, but you have to take so much extra design precaution around the steel interfaces (make it way bigger).

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[userdude]

Just catching up on this now. Dang... Both 6061 and 7075 are incredible materials but its hard to overstate how dang robust steel is. Pound for pound, sure 7075 is better. But parts often cant be build pound for pound but volume per volume. If you have a limited volume to put material in due to package space, steel will beat aluminum every time.

Its one thing to break the tie rod stud pad, but to rip out your LCA ball joint pad is pretty bad. Again, maybe there were install issues. But even if the failure was down to a heat treat issue on the aluminum, it just goes to show why steel is a safe bet. That said, maybe they have an opportunity to add more material here, or even nest in a bolt on steel retainer or something.

For weight purposes, aluminum in most of the upright, or even the LCA's (as they are stock) is a solid bet, but you have to take so much extra design precaution around the steel interfaces (make it way bigger).

So you're saying dress up the 7075 in some good ol' mild steel wrap?? Maybe 1/2" thickness we be good? So light and so free!

 

[TeocaliMG]

So you're saying dress up the 7075 in some good ol' mild steel wrap?? Maybe 1/2" thickness we be good? So light and so free!

More or less lol! Assuming it would fit.

Honestly, if I couldn't simply add more aluminum around the taper insets (might be restricted on package space), I would see if you could nest a modest steel plate on the top and bottom of the aluminum that itself is either part of or surrounding the taper inset. That way you can keep most of the structure aluminum, but the stud taper has to rip out the steel plates which themselves are nested in the aluminum already. But then you need some excellent corrosion protection.

I like to think of interfaces like these as having two different but very important failure modes. The first failure is when something yields, and the joint is no longer tight or precise. Like the taper for the stud gets wallowed out so the suspension is loose or clunky. The other is total disconnect, it should be very difficult for something to come fully disconnected and that certainly shouldn't happen until well after the taper or bearing for the stud has yielded to the point of obviously needing attention.

This has not been informed by any actual engineering or manufacturing analysis, just my quick thoughts on how to beef it up without adding volume radially around the stud hole, and without just making the whole taper joint steel and bolting it on (bolts break too):

 

[Snacktime]

Can we say cast iron?

 

[userdude]

Can we say cast iron?

 

[Snacktime]

Just saying maybe BroncBuster cheapen his way into a better product.

 

[userdude]

Just saying maybe BroncBuster cheapen his way into a better product.

I recall in an interview Quinn mentioned cast iron but rejected it because he thought it was too dirty when manufacturing. (I don't know if it matters, just saying what he said.) He may have given other downsides, but I remember that. They do seem like they'd be pretty heavy.

 

[Razorback]

Just saying maybe BroncBuster cheapen his way into a better product.

Plus you can cook cornbread in them while camping...

 

[ScLeCo]

I guess Ti would just be too expensive

 

[Razorback]

I guess Ti would just be too expensive

Around 10X probably. My lugs are Ti and amazing how light they are...

 

[userdude]

Around 10X probably. My lugs are Ti and amazing how light they are...

So you're saying there's a chance??

 

[ScLeCo]

Around 10X probably. My lugs are Ti and amazing how light they are...

Me too, I have the ACER lugs on a couple of vehicles and love them.

 

[TeocaliMG]

I recall in an interview Quinn mentioned cast iron but rejected it because he thought it was too dirty when manufacturing. (I don't know if it matters, just saying what he said.) He may have given other downsides, but I remember that. They do seem like they'd be pretty heavy.

Definitely harder on tools. Compared to aluminum basically everything is expensive to machine.

I recall when Quinn mentioned investigating cast aluminum as a cheaper option, I still like that idea for the bulk of the upright, it could save a ton on surface machining cost and overall cost allowing you to invest more in beefing up (with steel or otherwise) the more critical joint areas.

Or keep just the core gearbox 7075 aluminum with extremely beefy bolt-to interface flanges/brackets that you bolt on a steel weldment structure to, let the weldment handle all the suspension hardpoints and vehicle model variability. Then again, welding introduces a whole other manufacturing cost which requires expertise.

Actually, I think it would be pretty slick for 74weld to offer the portal gearbox ready to go with its own modular mounting infrastructure. Then folks could build all kinds of custom steel uprights for whatever projects they have, or other vendors could specialize in uprights for various niche platforms. i'd buy that.

 

[5GENIDN]

Just saying maybe BroncBuster cheapen his way into a better product.

Well your problem in understanding metallurgy is AI.... While yes cast Iron has a significantly higher hardness... It is also significantly more brittle. It is not "tough"... which is defined as having the largest area below the stress strain curve. Therefore when it breaks it does so catastrophically.

 

[87-Z28]

Well your problem in understanding metallurgy is AI.... While yes cast Iron has a significantly higher hardness... It is also significantly more brittle. It is not "tough"... which is defined as having the largest area below the stress strain curve. Therefore when it breaks it does so catastrophically.

Most definitely ductility decreases with most cast metals. This doesn’t matter if you never reach the plastic yield point (good factors of safety). When engineering design can provide beefed up high stress areas then casting is a viable solution. Just an alternative design methodology to just throwing the best most expensive material at the solution from the get go.

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