Transferring Dealers with existing order

[GreenMtnBronco]

FWIW, I had dozens of customers ask me about pricing they had seen on this forum. I told them I fully understood why small dealers were doing what they were doing, and that I was perfectly Ok with them transferring the reservation if they felt like price was the most deciding factor for them. I did caution them all about how they would severely delay their order and that was the trade off for getting the better price....eventually.

this is a more genuine answer than the one I got from my dealer. There's being reasonable about vs, calling it a scam, which it's not. One of the things that put me off about my dealer is that the sales manager was running all his contacts with me via his personal gmail account instead of the dealer's email domain. Seems a bit sketchy in this day and age that he wouldn't want all the comms in an official channel.

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[hemiblas]

I'd cancel the order and just place a new one. If you really really want the Bronco sooner than at this point you really dont have much of a choice.

 

[kodiakisland]

this is a more genuine answer than the one I got from my dealer. There's being reasonable about vs, calling it a scam, which it's not. One of the things that put me off about my dealer is that the sales manager was running all his contacts with me via his personal gmail account instead of the dealer's email domain. Seems a bit sketchy in this day and age that he wouldn't want all the comms in an official channel.

So enough with the suspense. What is your dealer charging you over MSRP?

 

[Fly by Nite]

So enough with the suspense. What is your dealer charging you over MSRP?

If 'Dealer A' is charging you MSRP that should be considered acceptable.... it's pretty much average. If they are adding a surcharge, and didn't tell you that in advance, well that's a different story.

 

[Kignelzi]

I Have a july 15 reservation and a converted order in mid February with Dealer A. I am not happy with dealer A as they have maintained that any discounts available are "just scams on the internet forums."

I had a conversation with Dealer B last week. Dealer B is willing to include my order as part of their offer of preferred pricing for a group from THIS forum. I've spoken with the sales manager and had a PM exchange with someone else locally here who says the deal is legit.

I spoke to Ford today. The only way to get this to happen apparently is to get dealer A to transfer the order to dealer B. We all know that is not going to happen. The only other thing Ford said I can do is to just place a new order (for a '24?) -

any one, particularly dealer insiders, have any ideas on how I can effect his transfer? I can only think of threatening to post on social media all over about their own shady behavior.

thanks

I had to cancel my reservation. Dealership was unwilling to transfer it. They got pretty uppity with me about it. Can’t imagine trying to talk them into transferring an order. Good luck.

 

[GreenMtnBronco]

If 'Dealer A' is charging you MSRP that should be considered acceptable.... it's pretty much average. If they are adding a surcharge, and didn't tell you that in advance, well that's a different story.

what I find unacceptable is the attempt at gaslighting me with the idea that anyone offering less is "running a scam"

 

[Efthreeoh]

what I find unacceptable is the attempt at gaslighting me with the idea that anyone offering less is "running a scam"

Well, since none of those dealers have yet sold a Bronco at their below invoice price, no one really knows. But if you were to transfer the order to another dealer with their low internet price, being a day 3 reservation and based on your build, you could be kicking someone into MY '22 that will get his Bronco as a MY '21. So if I was that person, I'd be a bit pissed.

It's now late May. The time to transfer dealers was 2 months ago. If I count right from memory, there are five or six dealers on B6G stating they are selling at below invoice out of 3,000+ Ford dealerships in the US.

 

[ZackDanger]

FWIW, I had dozens of customers ask me about pricing they had seen on this forum. I told them I fully understood why small dealers were doing what they were doing, and that I was perfectly Ok with them transferring the reservation if they felt like price was the most deciding factor for them. I did caution them all about how they would severely delay their order and that was the trade off for getting the better price....eventually.

Ah, there’s that claim again… made by dealer’s but never backed up with math or explanation.

If there’s a finite number of MY21 Broncos, and they’re generally being assigned in order of reservation, and dealer’s allocation grows and shrinks with (pre 9/18) conversions, it shouldn’t matter to the customer what dealership they are at. If they were likely to get an MY21, that will be true at any dealer.

The only rubs are: 1. commodities, which are so unpredictable it’s useless to try to game it, and: 2. increased allocation from prior sales or market, but those “smaller dealers” are actually pretty high volume anyway… through either fleet sales or similar business strategies in the past. (How else do you think they can profit on smaller margins if not for higher volume?)

Your business model may honestly rely on wider margins… and there’s nothing inherently wrong with MSRP or even ADM if that’s what the local market or strategy is (free market capitalism and all). Plenty of people chose to go local even if it’s more expensive because of the other things thay money gets them…. Not to mention any savings with the high volume discount dealers could be wiped once transportation and pickup is arranged.

But let’s at least be honest with the customer. Trying to hold onto a customer who was already thinking of going elsewhere with a dubious claim is how so many of them ended up at the other dealers.

 

[Bronco wannabe]

Ah, there’s that claim again… made by dealer’s but never backed up with math or explanation.

It's not hard to do the math, and the answer to the math is the actual explanation. If a dealer has an allocation of 200, and 1000 reservations, compared to a dealer that has 200 allocations and 450 reservations, then it's not rocket science on which customer in each pool has the best chance of getting their Bronco the quickest. I don't know how else to state it.

 

[Gamecock]

It's not hard to do the math, and the answer to the math is the actual explanation. If a dealer has an allocation of 200, and 1000 reservations, compared to a dealer that has 200 allocations and 450 reservations, then it's not rocket science on which customer in each pool has the best chance of getting their Bronco the quickest. I don't know how else to state it.

I think people understand that concept....but the small dealers with big reservation numbers fell pretty close to what the average dealer got as far as allocation percentage. Your numbers seem extreme to make that point. The biggest factor in the allocation formula was still number of converted orders with reservations prior to Sep 19th. You certainly have an advantage at a very high volume dealer in a a major market based on the other 2 elements of that formula....but otherwise, they all seem pretty close percentage wise. Not enough to worry too much about and chase the dealer with a higher proportion of allocations v. orders in hopes you'll get it earlier. The best strategy seems to be to get the best price you can negotiated, and then let the chips ride...and not worry that one dealer has allocations for 31% of their orders, and the other has 36%. It's a bit of a crapshoot for timing either way and out of your control....but the price piece you can determine with the right dealer.

@ the OP: I would probably cancel the existing reservation if I was in your spot and go with the dealer that gives you the better deal out of principle...the principle that I like to get a good deal on major purchases and enjoy making sure I do. I would never go pay MSRP or higher on a transaction like this, and there are plenty of better deals to be had. I would feel suckered if I did pay sticker....so I wouldn't.

 

[ZackDanger]

It's not hard to do the math, and the answer to the math is the actual explanation. If a dealer has an allocation of 200, and 1000 reservations, compared to a dealer that has 200 allocations and 450 reservations, then it's not rocket science on which customer in each pool has the best chance of getting their Bronco the quickest. I don't know how else to state it.

You're right, the math is really easy, and your math is correct, but it's not representative of reality. The spread between allocation to order ratios is not as wide as you state.

We have crunched the numbers here and compared various dealer's final allocation ratios. Turns out they are all in the low 30%... which makes sense because generally speaking, that's the percentage of total reservations Ford can produce in MY21. There are naturally some outliers, mostly for dealers who didn't convert as many as they could have.... but everything falls around that mark.

What that means is, in your two scenarios, reality looks closer to 300 allocations and 1000 reservations vs 150 allocations and 450 reservations.

Because allocations are awarded by timestamp priority*, and allocations scale with conversions, the reservation holders who hold the earliest 30-34% timestamp should always receive MY21s. Assuming a specific dealership's timestamp spread is statistically similar to the national spread, which becomes increasingly more likely the more reservations they have, changing dealerships will have no significant impact to the reservation holder.... their timestamp is either in the first 30% or it's not. If it is, it will remain in the first 30% irrespective of the dealership and how many total orders they have.

*For people who are right on the edge, say 32%, which may fall out of MY21 allocation at one dealer and in at another... because the differences in allocation numbers are actually pretty small once you get to the dealer level (because we're talking about ratios compared across dealers) those differences are statistically going to be a wash once you factor in commodity constraints.

(And then you have the people that aren't even close to the edge, but commodity issues will either bump them way up or delay them into MY22... but there's nothing about that we can control for.)

The point is, even if you could shop around for a dealer based on their allocation ratio, it's not large enough statistical difference between dealers to actually make a tangible impact moving from one dealer or another. One might even argue that by moving to a large-volume dealer, their timestamp spread is closest to the national spread, so it's the most fair opportunity at receiving a MY21 if you are "entitled to it" based on your timestamp. By sticking with a local dealer who is not working to attract larger numbers with discounts, you run an increasing risk of have their timestamp spread be a statistical outlier... potentially to your detriment.

What that all means is, yes, the math is easy and it tells us that the customer should shop around based on basically every metric *other* than the number of bronco orders a dealership converts... there is nothing about one dealership that would "delay" someone's bronco to any statistical degree that would warrant someone not transferring.


If you are in possession of information that suggests or proves that the allocation percentages are as disparate as you claimed (20% vs 45%), that's info that would be greatly appreciated here and I'd enthusiastically admit my error.

 

[Bronco wannabe]

If you are in possession of information that suggests or proves that the allocation percentages are as disparate as you claimed (20% vs 45%), that's info that would be greatly appreciated here and I'd enthusiastically admit my error.

No problem. Do you want reservation numbers from July 13-Sept 19th? Or do you want total reservation numbers compared to allocation? Happy to share mine.

 

[Bronco21fan]

The dealer I bought my new Ranger Tremor from a few weeks ago isn’t the same dealer as my bronco order.. and the new dealer very much wanted my bronco order to be transferred. Said it would be zero problems. I don’t know if that helps ya any.

This was maybe 2 weeks ago.

Would love to see pics of your tremor ranger a d congrats how are you liking the truck

 

[ZackDanger]

No problem. Do you want reservation numbers from July 13-Sept 19th? Or do you want total reservation numbers compared to allocation? Happy to share mine.

I think the most relevant number would be the ratio of your final MY21 allocation to converted pre-Sept 19th orders. That would be the most apples-to-apples to see how different dealerships made out under the allocation formula.

 

[Bronco wannabe]

I think the most relevant number would be the ratio of your final MY21 allocation to converted pre-Sept 19th orders. That would be the most apples-to-apples to see how different dealerships made out under the allocation formula.

My final allocation was 131. I converted 173 reservations out of 250 reservations I had dated prior to Sept 19th. I also took a different approach than other dealers and I cancelled reservation holders prior to Sept 19th after my 5th attempt to call or email them with no response. So factoring in some of the 250 that cancelled on their own, plus the ones I cancelled myself, I was left with 197 converted reservations active prior to Sept 19th. Additionally, since I saw Ford was actually producing stats to us on conversions with data past Sept 19th reservation holders, I converted every one of those that I could and also placed those in the order bank with real orders. That proved to be the right call as I've already had one of those pulled for production. Ford provides the stats to us live at any given time, which I've included below. To date, I have 218 actual real orders at code 19, and 42 that are 42 that are 99 because they want to wait for a 2022.

So as you can see, if we went purely off of reservations prior to Sept 19th, 131 allocations is well beyond what has been seen here. Maybe I guessed right doing it the way I did or it could be because I'm a giant store. I don't know. But as of right now, I've widdled ALL my reservations down to 260, and I'm getting 131 for MY 2021. I'd say my customers have a better shot than most.

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