Sponsored

Tuning of 2.7L Looks to be Limited

WhiteMamba

First Edition
Well-Known Member
First Name
Derek
Joined
Jul 13, 2020
Threads
6
Messages
424
Reaction score
762
Location
Boring, Oregon
Vehicle(s)
2021 Bronco FE, 2015 F350 2010 Focus 1995 F250
Your Bronco Model
First Edition
Clubs
 
A tune may be needed just to fix the throttle delay, poor throttle response, and early shifts in normal mode for those trucks without Sport mode. The engine should have plenty of power for the street, but it doesn't feel that way in normal mode....maybe Forscan can be used to delete a worthless mode (eco) and add in Sport. Otherwise, a tune may be needed.
Yeah for a First Edition that doesn't have sport mode, it would be awesome to drop eco.
Sponsored

 

Andrew_EOD

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
First Name
Andrew
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Threads
13
Messages
272
Reaction score
778
Location
Panama City
Vehicle(s)
Ford Focus ST
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
Or, this is ford's way to sell the performance power packs...
 

Chrome_Pony

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Chrome
Joined
May 20, 2020
Threads
12
Messages
645
Reaction score
1,406
Location
The Great Land
Vehicle(s)
2023 2.3L Badlands High, 2017 LWN Duramax Z71
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
All the back and forth about a V8, NA vs Turbo, give me a small displacement turbodiesel Bronco and call it a day.
 

mpeugeot

Outer Banks
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
May 14, 2021
Threads
17
Messages
7,299
Reaction score
13,563
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
97 Ferrari F355, 11 Ford F-150, 21 OBX 2D
Your Bronco Model
Outer Banks
It's like that on purpose. If people could throw on a tune for less than $1,000 what would be the point of the Warthog. This is planned. It saves them a little money, and keeps the Warthog relevant.
Sorta, it depends on how loose the lockup converter in the 10R60 can be programmed to be. This is where transmission tuning certainly could be the game winner for a weak transmission. Let's say, for arguments sake, that the 2.7 can make 228 HP at 3000 RPM with 400 ft/lbs of torque, at 2000 RPM 400 ft/lbs of torque will only make 152 HP, and at 1000 RPM it will make a paltry 76 HP.

Well HP wins drag races, not torque, and although we are torque limited to 400 ft/lbs, we are not RPM limited until we hit the max stall of the converter.

Imagine that we are able to make 400 ft/lbs with a factory stall of 1500 RPM (114 HP), just by raising the stall speed to 2000 RPM, we are now transferring 33% more power (152 HP) into the transmission, without increasing the torque. That translates into much more rapid acceleration without fear of blowing up the transmission.
 

mpeugeot

Outer Banks
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
May 14, 2021
Threads
17
Messages
7,299
Reaction score
13,563
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
97 Ferrari F355, 11 Ford F-150, 21 OBX 2D
Your Bronco Model
Outer Banks
I did a little digging today and there looks to be a couple of possibilities with regard to not destroying these transmissions.

The first thing, naturally, is heat... Heat is the number one killer of these transmissions (and most automatic transmissions) short of snapping hard parts. In general, most of these transmission have hard parts (shafts and drums) which will withstand far more power than the soft parts will tolerate.

Second thing is the wear parts, apparently Raybestos is already making heavy duty clutch packs for these transmissions and that's likely to be a way to get significantly more durability out of them. We will have to see if they are as good of an upgrade as the 10R80 parts appear to be.

So all is not lost on the 10R60.
 

Sponsored

LIKEABOSS

First Edition
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Jul 13, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
216
Reaction score
551
Location
Baltimore, MD
Vehicle(s)
2020 Shelby GT500
Your Bronco Model
First Edition
The 10R60 does just fine in the Explorer ST with a tune. In fact, the tune makes the transmission shift better and use all the gears. As far as the Bronco I don't believe the transmission is going to be the weak link once tunning is available.
 

Sherminiator

Big Bend
Well-Known Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Threads
62
Messages
1,498
Reaction score
2,140
Location
CNJ
Vehicle(s)
2022 Ford Bronco Big Bend
Your Bronco Model
Big Bend
Clubs
 
I wouldn’t sweat it too much. I come from the FWD 3.5L Ecoboost world where a out of the box tune would add about 90 ft lb torque to a transmission that was only rated for 350 ft lb of torque.

The transmission is programmed with torque mitigation so you didn’t grenade it. The 6F55 was pretty good (mine had 95k on without any issues) and I’m assuming the Bronco will have similar torque mitigation built into it and RWD applications can take more power then transverse transmissions can.
 

Monster1926

First Edition
Well-Known Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Jul 18, 2020
Threads
16
Messages
2,348
Reaction score
4,844
Location
Indiana
Vehicle(s)
GMC Sierra 2500HD
Your Bronco Model
First Edition
Ok, dog might be a little too strong, I'll change that to a bit sluggish off the line. We've owned three 3.5 EBs in Expeditions and F150. Always loved the engine and it will throw you back in your seat if you want. A couple months ago I finally found a crew cab F150 with a 2.7 to test. I was excited to drive that and have it feel very similar to the 3.5 in power and off the line speed. I expected great things from the Bronco 2.7. I was a bit disappointed to find the Bronco sluggish compared to my expectations. I am not a speed demon, never owned a sports car, but I drive my trucks with a heavy foot and like speed when I want it. It felt lacking off the line and at lower speeds, but it will move in the higher gears.

@Mattwings got smoked by a 2.3 Ranger in his 2.7 Bronco, in boosted launches and every drive mode. He finds the RPMs limited off the line and he cant spin the tires if he tries. This kind of verified my uneducated seat of the pants feeling that Ford is limiting the 2.7 somehow, Im not smart enough to guess how but I think the 2.7 is capable of alot more.

And just to clarify, I am not complaining or cancelling my order. The Bronco has plenty of power and is a beast off road, loved every second of driving it at off rodeo. The tuners will let us know whats going on when they get these on the dyno soon, and I suspect they will find that Ford is neutering them a bit for whatever reason.
Your right it is a dog off the line. I feel the same I was pretty excited for the 2.7 I seen how well it did in the F-150. Drove a 2 door OB and left disappointed. Didn’t expect a 3 second 0-60 but I was hoping for 6 seconds or less. Lots of people will be disappointed.
 

csj

Outer Banks
Well-Known Member
First Name
Craig
Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
270
Reaction score
422
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
17 Tacoma OR
Your Bronco Model
Outer Banks
I'm one of those that has always been on the fence about the Bronco, I'll be watching these kinds of threads and decide maybe next year. If some decent power can't be pulled out of the Bronco 2.7, then I'll see what the Warthog looks like. I don't if you all have been following the 392, but a guy has run a 12.9 something quarter in a stock 392, which was running into the 99 mph limit the last few seconds of the quarter. Livernois has a tune ($700) to get a bit more power and get rid of the 99 mph limit. That should put a tuned 392 about mid 12's? Seems like the Warthog has some pretty stiff competition.
 

Sponsored

Mr. Nice

Banned
Badlands
Banned
Banned
First Name
Jayson
Joined
Apr 27, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
678
Reaction score
911
Location
Minnesota
Vehicle(s)
12' Boss302, 08' Audi TT, 13' CRV, 14" Ridgeline
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Can you say bye bye đź‘‹ to your warranty?
Have some deep pockets?
 

csj

Outer Banks
Well-Known Member
First Name
Craig
Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
270
Reaction score
422
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
17 Tacoma OR
Your Bronco Model
Outer Banks
Neither the price nor the warranty of a 392 is an issue to me, but I'm still optimistic the Bronco 2.7 will be able to make some power. So far the user reports of the 2.7 are disappointing; no better performance nor better efficiency than the competitors.
 

Goneboy

Base
Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Threads
3
Messages
57
Reaction score
107
Location
Atlanta
Vehicle(s)
Small Handful
Your Bronco Model
Base
Neither the price nor the warranty of a 392 is an issue to me, but I'm still optimistic the Bronco 2.7 will be able to make some power. So far the user reports of the 2.7 are disappointing; no better performance nor better efficiency than the competitors.
I'm with you on this. Not hearing any overwhelming reviews of the 2.7, which is strange because the numbers on paper look so promising, not to mention how F-150 owners raved about how good it is in their application. Combine that with all the talk about the tranny damn near maxed out in stock format....not good.

I plan on running 38's at a minimum with some not-so-light wheels, so more power for me is a must. I'm hoping 5 star can address all these issues.
 

gtx_bronc

Badlands
Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
155
Reaction score
596
Location
GTX
Vehicle(s)
2021 Bronco
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
Everything that I have seen reported suggests that the engine strategy is setup to limit driveline shock at low speeds. What would really be interesting is to dyno the motor locked in each gear from 1000-6000 RPM and see if the HP curve changes.

It would also be interesting to see if you can make it launch in second gear using the shifter override, if it's a first gear "limitation" on timing/valve timing/boost... then launching in second gear might be better.

1st gear at 1500-2000 RPM would 7-9 MPH vs 2nd gear at 11-14 MPH for a Non-SAS OBX 2.7 10 Speed(4.27/32"). Peak torque in 1st occurs at 15 MPH and in 2nd occurs at 23 MPH. Peak Horsepower in 1st occurs at 24 MPH and in 2nd occurs at 38 MPH.

1st gear at 1500-2000 RPM would 7-9 MPH vs 2nd gear at 11-14 MPH for a SAS OBX 2.7 10 Speed (4.70/35"). Peak torque in 1st occurs at 15 MPH and in 2nd occurs at 23 MPH. Peak Horsepower in 1st occurs at 24 MPH and in 2nd occurs at 37 MPH.

It would also be fun to see if using 4L on a SAS with 32" OBX rims/tires would run a quick time. It would need all 10 gears and would require it to shift really fast to not lose time.

I said earlier, it reminds me of my Suzuki SV1000s, which intentionally retarded the timing in 1st gear to make it more "user friendly".... I eliminated that "feature" rather quickly and found the motorcycle much more entertaining after that.

This would be easiest with a manual transmission, but we can't have nice things like a manual transmission 2.7!
I have had three EB cars now, all of them are like this in first gear, very limited boost
 

gtx_bronc

Badlands
Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
155
Reaction score
596
Location
GTX
Vehicle(s)
2021 Bronco
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
I'm one of those that has always been on the fence about the Bronco, I'll be watching these kinds of threads and decide maybe next year. If some decent power can't be pulled out of the Bronco 2.7, then I'll see what the Warthog looks like. I don't if you all have been following the 392, but a guy has run a 12.9 something quarter in a stock 392, which was running into the 99 mph limit the last few seconds of the quarter. Livernois has a tune ($700) to get a bit more power and get rid of the 99 mph limit. That should put a tuned 392 about mid 12's? Seems like the Warthog has some pretty stiff competition.
Why do you car about 1/4 mile times in an offroad vehicle? Go get a mustang if you want to kill innocent car show bystanders.
Sponsored

 
 


Top