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Bikeric

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The laborers that make the vehicles can't afford to buy the vehicles they make.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. If I had to pay the laborer's that built my house enough for them to afford it I wouldn't be able to afford it myself. Are we now going to ensure that all UAW members can afford to buy $100,000+ BRaptor's? Won't that turn them into $150,000 Braptor's?
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Sherminiator

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This! Options are good. EV’s can have a purpose and so can ICE’s. The feds are trying to put the cart before the horse. They’re going to push this on the general public who largely can’t afford it and before the infrastructure is in place to handle it. Plus the charging tech is not there. If you can’t charge to nearly full capacity in the same time you can fill up with gas- that’s a problem. Getting everyone on the Tesla chargers is a good start.
Let’s also remember that the power to charge EV’s comes from the electrical grid which is already stressed. Not to mention that electricity is mostly not cleanly produced. My neighbor is an EV engineer working on the charging/battery side and his two brand new cars are ICE. As he told me- the tech is not there yet- but we’re working on it.
Couple of things:

There are millions/billions being spent on putting in charging stations across the country by the federal government. In my neck of the woods I've noticed a huge increase in areas to charge at over the past 12 months...local Wawas getting Tesla SuperChargers and Targets putting in Level 2 chargers in their parking lots...we have a decent penetration of EVs in the area...mostly Teslas and Mach Es.

Electric power generation by more green methods is being rolled out across the country. I've driven from San Antonio to Kingsville TX and the amount of windmills being put in is crazy...they keep multiplying every time I go there. My home state has about 50% of its power from nukes with the rest being Natural Gas and smaller (10%) being renewables and other things. The governor wants to get rid of NG by 2035, which I find laughable, esp with the off shore Wind Turbine project running into major issues. The biggest issue with renewables is storing the power-lots of mechanical battery options out there, but no one has nailed down the most effective/efficient way of doing it yet to store that extra power.

I saw the current administration wants 50% of new car sales to be EVs by 2030....I'd say that is possible (we are at 7% currently I think) but pricing needs to come down to what an equivalent ICE product costs and the charging situation needs to be improved across the country.
 

Sherminiator

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You got that right specially when we already have forced rolling blackouts to protect infrastructures. I had my power cut twice this summer on a 20 min increment, its not that bothersome except I WFH, but they will increase in length or failure when you start plugging everything in. There are a lot of pieces to the puzzle that need to be mitigated before "we" just start forcing regulations.
If you had an EV, you could power your home with it, technically also. Yeah its an added expense, but its possible.
 

vrtical

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If you had an EV, you could power your home with it, technically also. Yeah its an added expense, but its possible.
Thats what diesel whole house generators are for and they are most defeninteely cheaper than some 100k truck.
 

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Couple of things:

There are millions/billions being spent on putting in charging stations across the country by the federal government. In my neck of the woods I've noticed a huge increase in areas to charge at over the past 12 months...local Wawas getting Tesla SuperChargers and Targets putting in Level 2 chargers in their parking lots...we have a decent penetration of EVs in the area...mostly Teslas and Mach Es.

Electric power generation by more green methods is being rolled out across the country. I've driven from San Antonio to Kingsville TX and the amount of windmills being put in is crazy...they keep multiplying every time I go there. My home state has about 50% of its power from nukes with the rest being Natural Gas and smaller (10%) being renewables and other things. The governor wants to get rid of NG by 2035, which I find laughable, esp with the off shore Wind Turbine project running into major issues. The biggest issue with renewables is storing the power-lots of mechanical battery options out there, but no one has nailed down the most effective/efficient way of doing it yet to store that extra power.

I saw the current administration wants 50% of new car sales to be EVs by 2030....I'd say that is possible (we are at 7% currently I think) but pricing needs to come down to what an equivalent ICE product costs and the charging situation needs to be improved across the country.
Not only do you need MORE chargers, you need faster chargers. I should be able to charge my vehicle while I run into Buc-ees to pee and grab a brisket sandwich and a coke. Currently you are not supposed to leave your vehicle unattended to pump gas, so if they could perfect charging to that, then I am onboard. When it takes 2 hrs to charge my vehicle, I will contine to buy ICE vehicles.
 

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I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. If I had to pay the laborer's that built my house enough for them to afford it I wouldn't be able to afford it myself. Are we now going to ensure that all UAW members can afford to buy $100,000+ BRaptor's? Won't that turn them into $150,000 Braptor's?

This.
 

Beachin 74

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Couple of things:

There are millions/billions being spent on putting in charging stations across the country by the federal government.
And there lies the rub....
Back in the beginning of the ICE automobile, oil companies funded gas stations across the country.
I believe the electric companies should be footing the bill for charging stations and not the taxpayers many of which have no use for an EV.
 

huey

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The laborers that make the vehicles can't afford to buy the vehicles they make.
that's not really all that uncommon. Can the folks who build lambo's, Ferraris etc. afford the vehicles they build? Can all GM workers afford the Z06? Can the guys who framed, plumbed, did the masonry or electrical work on my home build? Usually not, but the owner of the respective companies can, regardless if it is an exotic car, domestic sports car, house, pool etc. In fact there are an awful lot of things that people assemble / build / install but can't afford to purchase themselves. Likely the owner of their company can, that's just how things work.
 

Sherminiator

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Not only do you need MORE chargers, you need faster chargers. I should be able to charge my vehicle while I run into Buc-ees to pee and grab a brisket sandwich and a coke. Currently you are not supposed to leave your vehicle unattended to pump gas, so if they could perfect charging to that, then I am onboard. When it takes 2 hrs to charge my vehicle, I will contine to buy ICE vehicles.
"fast chargers" can charge your car up in about 20-30 minutes to 80%. If you can charge at home, this is pretty much a non-issue, but yah I get that it can be an issue for people in apartment or other places that don't have charging...yet


And there lies the rub....
Back in the beginning of the ICE automobile, oil companies funded gas stations across the country.
I believe the electric companies should be footing the bill for charging stations and not the taxpayers many of which have no use for an EV.
And most people worked on farms and didn't commute into work either back then.

But your assuming the Taxpayers don't have a use for an EV...but yet they will be "forced" into buying one in say 10-12 years because CAFE will force car companies to make EVs only.

All the government is doing is greasing the wheels to make the change over easier
 

huey

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Not only do you need MORE chargers, you need faster chargers. I should be able to charge my vehicle while I run into Buc-ees to pee and grab a brisket sandwich and a coke. Currently you are not supposed to leave your vehicle unattended to pump gas, so if they could perfect charging to that, then I am onboard. When it takes 2 hrs to charge my vehicle, I will contine to buy ICE vehicles.
I don't have an EV and have no plans to buy one, but I had my first road trip in one recently. It was a 325 mile drive, & believe it or not we stopped at Buc-ees lol. The vehicle(Tesla Model Y) had 8% battery left when we stopped. We went in for the pee break n brisket(as you correctly stated), the other 2 dudes picked up stuff for their kids. We got back to the vehicle, it was 81% and took 31 minutes. We did not wait on the charging, that was how long it took us.

Admittedly you can't do the 10 minute pit stop and get that much charge, but i must say I was impressed with how quickly the Tesla charged.
 

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Sherminiator

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Thats what diesel whole house generators are for and they are most defeninteely cheaper than some 100k truck.
But can you drive your diesel generator into work or to the store? LOL
 

INFINITE23

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In my mind, EVs and ICE vehicles were supposed to compliment each other. EVs could take most of the day/work/chore trips, and ICEs the longer fun/utility trips. EVs save gas for these purposes, and ICEs provide an alternative when the power goes out, and won’t stress the grid as much, nor the supply of lithium.
Both are environmentally damaging: EVs are greater on the production side, ICEs on the driving side. Takes about 5 or so years for an EV to break even.

In short though: I want options, I want both. Right now though the focus is on entirely weeding out iCEs by 2035, and raising gas taxes. I sense this myopic approach jeopardizes both. It is certain that things will get more expensive.
Depending on the battery size and where you are it can be under 3 years for the EV to overtake the ICE vehicle in terms of emissions.
 

INFINITE23

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Nuclear is great, but that has been stopped by environmentalists who have zero knowledge of energy production. Micro grids are also great. All I have seen are NatGas. Which happens to be a great byproduct of oil mining. What I can tell you about windmills is that they are not being recycled today. They are rotting. But why would we deploy windmills without thinking that through first anyway? They were sold as the great solution, and guess what? They don't add up. The energy production is well below project goals, to the point that many land owners are not even being paid lease. Regardless oil has little to do with electricity except in related NatGas production. None of this even touches the fact that we simply can't support EVs in quantity. We have rolling blackouts across the country today. This is all a solution looking for a problem. The simple fact, is that we will need oil for a long time.
The biggest stoppage of Nuclear isn’t just the environmentalist but the oil lobby.
Microgeneration as in rooftop solar for homes or community solar.
 

Snowdogyyz

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Not only do you need MORE chargers, you need faster chargers. I should be able to charge my vehicle while I run into Buc-ees to pee and grab a brisket sandwich and a coke. Currently you are not supposed to leave your vehicle unattended to pump gas, so if they could perfect charging to that, then I am onboard. When it takes 2 hrs to charge my vehicle, I will contine to buy ICE vehicles.
Fast charging is going to need some liquid cooling. More current/amps, etc means way more heat. It’s one thing my neighbor is working on. If the charger sparks- major fire or explosion will occur.
 

DrTiki

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I don't have an EV and have no plans to buy one, but I had my first road trip in one recently. It was a 325 mile drive, & believe it or not we stopped at Buc-ees lol. The vehicle(Tesla Model Y) had 8% battery left when we stopped. We went in for the pee break n brisket(as you correctly stated), the other 2 dudes picked up stuff for their kids. We got back to the vehicle, it was 81% and took 31 minutes. We did not wait on the charging, that was how long it took us.

Admittedly you can't do the 10 minute pit stop and get that much charge, but i must say I was impressed with how quickly the Tesla charged.
Yes, but right now those rapid chargers are only available to Tesla owners. Where I live there are NO non-telsa charging stations within a 50 mile radius. We have had two Plug in Hybrids. First a Lincoln Aviator, and now a Wrangle 4xE. We have a level two charger at home and it takes around 2-3 hrs to charge just for the 22 miles available.
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