[Updated 7/20] Early Delivered Bronco MIC Top Developing Honeycomb / Snakeskin Pattern

[stampede1]

That's a career-killer. No matter what the boss or boss' boss says about "we know it's not your fault," you'll never be trusted again.

He/she damn well better never be trusted again!

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[WhiteMamba]

Oof. Of all things, this is far and away Ford's worst nightmare. Quality issues on a part that is already severely production-constrained and is ordered on 60+% of vehicles. I'm sure there are some Ford guys getting ulcers right now. I wouldn't not want to be the guy who green-lit Webasto as the supplier. That's a career-killer. No matter what the boss or boss' boss says about "we know it's not your fault," you'll never be trusted again.

Seeing this makes me think for the first time that my Day 1 reservation could very likely become a '22 delivery. Lux, tow, 2-door, 2.7 was already an obstacle, but these hard tops may become unicorns.

webasto makes everybody's tops....

 

[WhiteMamba]

Somebody needs to go dumpster diving at Webasto . Do a little recon and see what’s going on. But all jokes aside Webasto is the reason I am in no hurry to get my 2-door First Edition. Thank GOD I still don’t have a vin#. And for the record if I could I’d take a convertible at this point. I use to know someone who worked at their other facility who from time to time helped out at the MIC top plant in Plymouth. They said from day one it was a clusterfxxk and night and day difference between the two plants. First off, the plant has horrible workflow as if it was a repurposed building and not purposely built, definitely not big enough to add production of the shadow black modular hard top in their opinion. Second, a hostel work environment with bad management, pre-FORD’s involvement. Third, sub par employees were initially hired to work there. These early employees were not used to working in a factory setting and were quick to complain when they realized the quality of work and long hours that was demanded of them. Employee turnover has been a huge problem! FORD has tried to right this sinking ship by raising the pay above Webasto’s initial low offering, bringing in their own management and highly skilled employees along with technical support, and ultimately spending millions of dollars. I personally know this is driving FORD corporate crazy and yet here we are with many of the same quality issues.... In the end I am still beyond happy FORD brought back the Bronco, it’s an amazing vehicle that I will love MIC top aside .

with all the bad tops they have built I guaranty your photo missed the tons of drop boxes that must have been run through there.

 

[lakesinai]

Updated with more info from @PREMiERdrum:

The first of many we'll see of these. It's becoming apparent that many tops were delivered that had their outer laminate layer cast too thin. Commodity intake procedures weren't able to tell because they looked fine. This - along with other laminating issues - are what spurred the additional inspections that held so many units over the last 2 weeks.

FWIW my roof is still 100% fine, and I'm realizing just how lucky I havr been with this build.

A bit more info: Issues with thickness uniformity of the 3 layers is what's behind the lamination issues (and these unsightly "thin" spots). There isn't an easy fix at this point.

Watch this space.



Original post:

I haven't seen any mention or photos of this phenomenon yet. Just today I noticed a honeycomb or snakeskin like pattern starting to appear on most of the rear shell.

Anyone else also experience this? Is it UV related? Reaction with Meguiars Hybrid Ceramic Wax? Something internal?

You can't feel the texture, it's strictly visual.

Interested in hearing some theories...

None of this make sense without knowing how these are made. You can't mold in a color (MIC) on a fiberglass cloth/resin top. FIBERGLASS needs a gelcoat; epoxy needs a polyurethane or epoxy paint coating. But some hypothesize that they're seeing the cloth lamimate.

If they're a laminate of 3 plastic layers, as others have suggested, that would suggest a heat press mold process with several material sheets. What is that? Is that used?

A third possibility is an injection mold process or a rotomold process. Is that used here?
https://3dinsider.com/rotomolding-vs-injection-molding/
Whats going on?

 

[Bulletbill]

What is compromised? That is an assumption based on?? What we know is that we can see substructure. We also know one is not supposed to wax plastic.

Probably shouldn’t expose it to rain, snow, cold weather, road salt, mud, pollen, car soap, finger prints…Wait, these are all things I have to drive in…lol.

Are you seriously implying putting “wax” on a top that is supposed to hold up to all the above would cause those issues. Really???

 

[mpeugeot]

Were these 3d printed at home?!? Just looked at the first pictures!!!

 

[mpeugeot]

Somebody needs to go dumpster diving at Webasto . Do a little recon and see what’s going on.

Is it too early to call in a drone strike?!?

 

[Big Island Bronco ?♂️]

Is it too early to call in a drone strike?!?

Why do you think I included their address and phone number? Give em hell

 

[Natai]

A couple weeks ago, I saw and test rode in a 2-door dealer demo with hardtop. (The Wildtrak shown in photo below.) I paid particular attention to the hardtop given the production issues.

I saw no honeycomb showing through the exterior surfaces. I viewed all sides and even climbed up on the rear axle tire to view the top. Pushed on the panels etc. I was viewing at around 6:30pm on a mildly clouding day. Not sure if a different lighting situation would show something else.

Overall the exterior surface seemed solid and the surface treatment even - meaning a consistent slightly textured surface. The only thing I saw on the exterior, were some scratch marks, probably when the dealer earlier had the top removed, and probably was not so careful about where they laid the panels.

And actually I tried rubbing out the scuff marks with my finger, and one of them seemed to be disappearing. I did that because many of us will be having tree branches and other stuff hitting the top, and I wanted to see if the scuff marks were permanent.

Overall to me the hardtop outside surface appeared strong and durable. But who knows over time - that I can't answer. Based on the OP and other photos, the build quality varies between tops.

Hopefully that points to this being a (relatively) simple issue of a seriously thin outer coat. Though if the difference is really that significant, you'd think it would be really easy for QC to spot the difference - almost to the point where you'd think the fit would be slightly off.

I suppose it could also be an issue with the material not being appropriately prepared/cured/whatever (not having solid info on the material and process itself). So it could be of close to the proper thickness, but may not be as hard/opaque as it should be.

I don't envy the Ford people tasked with tracking down exactly what the problems are, but they absolutely need to be on their game for this one. (And don't trust anything Webasto tells them.)

 

[jinskeep]

Nothing on mine but been inside, maybe you shouldn't wax it.

 

[ReimundKrohn]

You made a statement as if the wax was causing the issue. Which I stated was bullshit. Not sure how much clearer I can be.

you aren’t answering the question: What evidence is there that structure has been compromised?? Textured Plastic is porous. Pores collect wax. Wax build up is visible. All those things are known. What you are ASSUMING is that what you are seeing is “damage”.

 

[lakesinai]

None of this make sense without knowing how these are made. You can't mold in a color (MIC) on a fiberglass cloth/resin top. FIBERGLASS needs a gelcoat; epoxy needs a polyurethane or epoxy paint coating. But some hypothesize that they're seeing the cloth lamimate.

If they're a laminate of 3 plastic layers, as others have suggested, that would suggest a heat press mold process with several material sheets. What is that? Is that used?

A third possibility is an injection mold process or a rotomold process. Is that used here?
https://3dinsider.com/rotomolding-vs-injection-molding/
Whats going on?

According to a 2017 posting in a Jeep forum, its a SMC process called "Sheet Molding Compound". The description is clear as mud, and, if referring to me possibilities above, would be "none of the above."
Post in thread 'What are Jeep Wrangler TJ hard tops made of?' https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/what-are-jeep-wrangler-tj-hard-tops-made-of.6938/post-98531

 

[SCADABronx]

Until it swells up like a wet piece of partical board. No thanks.

Rain wicks into the honeycomb, takes forever to evaporate, eventually freezes, ice expands and separates outer layers from the honeycomb reducing strength of MIC top, top fails / cracks, delaminates. Either that, or bees.

 

[lakesinai]

Probably shouldn’t expose it to rain, snow, cold weather, road salt, mud, pollen, car soap, finger prints…Wait, these are all things I have to drive in…lol.

Are you seriously implying putting “wax” on a top that is supposed to hold up to all the above would cause those issues. Really???

It is possible. Google "SMC repair" to read how various products can change the surface chemistry of SMC made auto parts. Id like to know more.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

Mine was delivered 3 weeks ago tomorrow with no visible problems. Even the "raw" (non-rolled) edges were uniform in color and texture and the headliner fit was great.

As of today, we have the headliner separating from the roof panels in two spots, raw edges fading to light gray / white with small cavities visible from obvious material loss, the clamshell reveal line flexing to uneven width across the passenger side rear quarter, and warping / flexing around the roof mounting bolts in the cargo area.

If this much can happen on these things in 3 weeks, I anticipate a rough few months ahead for those of us with early MIC builds. They just weren't ready for prime time.

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