Squatch Bronc

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(i) I am a lawyer and yes, a verbal agreement can be a contract, and (ii) it's not a verbal agreement if they give you a piece of a paper with a price on it! The question isn't whether the dealer should abide by what they verbally promised, it's a question of if they have to abide by the price listed on the order form that we all received when the order was submitted by dealer. Whether that document is signed has no real impact on whether or not its enforceable, or whether it actually constitutes a "contract."

Regardless of the law, it's not the buyer's fault if a dealer tells them price is X to induce them to order a car and then tells them it's Y when it shows up.
I am surprised that as a lawyer, you believe a verbal agreement is binding concerning the purchase of an automobile. I have actually been to court regarding this exact situation, and the judge ruled against the enforcement of the verbal agreement alleged. Depending on the state, contractual agreements with the signatures of both parties, are the only enforceable instruments.

These things notwithstanding, my intent was to prevent people on this forum from having to experience this for themselves. Get it in writing, and then you will not likely have any problems at the time of sale.

The question is: would you rather go to court and try to enforce a verbal agreement; or go to the dealer and pick up your new Bronco with a signed agreement?
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Mike777

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I must be missing something here. Where is the signed agreement when they placed their order? Did they order a Bronco without a signed agreement/purchase order?
I wish people would stop posting this.....people thought that price protection meant MSRP on the high end. Dealers found a way to go around this and you can squarely blame Ford on this one. Dealerships are a relic....every company needs to sell direct to consumer like Tesla.
 

Vantcrst

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Same, thank God for good dealers like Granger and Stephens. It is absolutely worth what little hassle we will endure.
Yep I went through the same thing here locally but in my case buying from Granger means I am flying 1800 miles to drive back and break in a new motor (not willing to do that). Or paying a couple grand to have it delivered. Delivery eats up any cost saving but to support an honest dealer like Granger and not have to worry about at last min ADM... priceless.
 

Hemisfear

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Didn't the buyer mentioned that the dealership said "things have changed", that alone suggests a breach of contract doesn't it?
 

CValencia

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Carmen, meet Tricia from Tucson (@RBF 1401). Tricia, meet Carmen.

Tricia is driving 1,400 miles to pick up her 22MY Bronco from Granger Ford (@[email protected]) in Iowa. 😁
Love this!

(@RBF 1401)Good to meet you! We should start an AZ group, have everyone convert their orders to Granger and we can all do a road trip to pick up our Broncos 🙃

What was your experience switching to Granger or have you been Granger from the beginning of your order?
 

CValencia

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Yes when contacting your dealer, always best to contact the 'New Car Mgr' - much better info & results in general. Personally I never waste time with a regular sales person - so many are clueless -

But yes, your entire dealership may be clueless or even crooked - including the New Car Mgr - difficult to know unless you have history -

If your local dealer is okay then it's convenient -
If they will sign your price guarantee in writing they may be okay -

If you suspect info from your dealer, you can always check it with Granger and know you'll get straight answers from them -
And price deal at Granger would cover travel expenses - they offer $1,000 below Invoice for reservation transfers - if Ford re-opens transfers w MY22 orders -
Last week I checked with Granger again - am considering transfer also -
Ugh see every time I call or go in I get the "hold on you have to talk to your sales rep." Literally not allowed to talk to anyone else 🙄
 

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Some of these dealers really suck! I'm buying my first brand new vehicle in years, glad I work at Ford and get A-plan. I would be nervous with any dealer with the exception of the few mentioned on here.
 

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The video is.....................................gone.
I guess you can still get to the video through this thread or the link directly to the video but looks like he moved it to unlisted on his youtubes page
 

zman1988

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I am surprised that as a lawyer, you believe a verbal agreement is binding concerning the purchase of an automobile. I have actually been to court regarding this exact situation, and the judge ruled against the enforcement of the verbal agreement alleged. Depending on the state, contractual agreements with the signatures of both parties, are the only enforceable instruments.

These things notwithstanding, my intent was to prevent people on this forum from having to experience this for themselves. Get it in writing, and then you will not likely have any problems at the time of sale.

The question is: would you rather go to court and try to enforce a verbal agreement; or go to the dealer and pick up your new Bronco with a signed agreement?
Also a lawyer here... yes verbal agreements are considered "oral contracts" (emphasis added to contracts) in all 50 states as a matter of common law, no matter what it concerns (I don't know of any good or service that cant be agreed upon orally). Limits to oral leases exist, but I don't think any apply here (Statute of Frauds, etc.). Oral leases exist for homes/buildings/things way more valuable than a Bronco (some states even give tenants the right to refuse to sign a lease!). Sales of goods is no different (if you are bored, read your states UCC Art 2 statutes). The issue is then he said/she said in court, a position that is obviously less than ideal (and where communication with your deal may help).

Did you represent yourself in court? Just curious.

A contract only needs to be signed by the party who it is to be enforced against (i.e. a Note for a loan is only signed by the Debtor/Borrower). Don't think a dealer cares at all if you sign anything, they are not suing you... They will just sell your Bronco to someone else for more than you would have. They come out of the situation better.

So if you have a piece of paper only signed by the dealer (and I would argue that if you have a document with the price emailed or texted to you from a dealer employee as an agent for the dealer, or an email or text with the price from a dealer employee), you are in pretty decent shape. The question then becomes how far do you want to take it? And is your time worth it? Sounds like you took it pretty far, but each case is different and will highly depend on the facts and circumstances.

Anyone with an invoice or other piece of paper signed by the dealer (including myself) are in no position to talk much in my opinion. If your dealer added an ADM to your deal, what would you do? File a law suit? You have before, how did that work out? Your Bronco will have already been sold by the time it was resolved. Don't pretend like this couldn't also happen to you. again.

I have a signed agreement with my dealer and they are on the no ADM list, but I am still super nervous. Its not official until its official.
 

ATLColonial

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I am surprised that as a lawyer, you believe a verbal agreement is binding concerning the purchase of an automobile. I have actually been to court regarding this exact situation, and the judge ruled against the enforcement of the verbal agreement alleged. Depending on the state, contractual agreements with the signatures of both parties, are the only enforceable instruments.

These things notwithstanding, my intent was to prevent people on this forum from having to experience this for themselves. Get it in writing, and then you will not likely have any problems at the time of sale.

The question is: would you rather go to court and try to enforce a verbal agreement; or go to the dealer and pick up your new Bronco with a signed agreement?
Verbal agreements are enforceable in certain circumstances, but that's not really my point - everyone here DID get the price in writing: it's listed on the document shared with them by the dealer at the time of the order. It's not like there was a handshake deal, and then no contact between that time and when the car is delivered: there's actual documentation with the agreed upon price shared by the dealer with the customer, so the legal theory on whether or not a verbal agreement is enforceable is irrelevant. You seem to be making the argument that that document being signed or not makes it more or less enforceable, and I'm telling you that it probably isn't (otherwise the dealer would be trying to enforce it against YOU).

Leaving aside the legal vagaries, the fact of the matter is that the buyers have been walking out of discussions with the dealers thinking the price X, and then relying on that price to make an order there (even though they have many other options to do so). If the dealer changes the price later, when they have the car in hand and the buyer's only options are pay the price or go home empty handed, then that's not "just business", it's a dealer being a cheat and taking advantage of the position they've put their customer in. I'm so tired of seeing people on this site be like "oh well that's capitalism" (because it's not) or lecturing people on getting their order forms signed (as if that really improves the situation) and blaming the buyer for, god forbid, thinking they had a deal done instead of the dealer for changing the terms at the last second. You're not helping anyone with that kind of sanctimony.
 

acbaldwi`

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Also a lawyer here... yes verbal agreements are considered "oral contracts" (emphasis added to contracts) in all 50 states as a matter of common law, no matter what it concerns (I don't know of any good or service that cant be agreed upon orally). Limits to oral leases exist, but I don't think any apply here (Statute of Frauds, etc.). Oral leases exist for homes/buildings/things way more valuable than a Bronco (some states even give tenants the right to refuse to sign a lease!). Sales of goods is no different (if you are bored, read your states UCC Art 2 statutes). The issue is then he said/she said in court, a position that is obviously less than ideal (and where communication with your deal may help).

Did you represent yourself in court? Just curious.

A contract only needs to be signed by the party who it is to be enforced against (i.e. a Note for a loan is only signed by the Debtor/Borrower). Don't think a dealer cares at all if you sign anything, they are not suing you... They will just sell your Bronco to someone else for more than you would have. They come out of the situation better.

So if you have a piece of paper only signed by the dealer (and I would argue that if you have a document with the price emailed or texted to you from a dealer employee as an agent for the dealer, or an email or text with the price from a dealer employee), you are in pretty decent shape. The question then becomes how far do you want to take it? And is your time worth it? Sounds like you took it pretty far, but each case is different and will highly depend on the facts and circumstances.

Anyone with an invoice or other piece of paper signed by the dealer (including myself) are in no position to talk much in my opinion. If your dealer added an ADM to your deal, what would you do? File a law suit? You have before, how did that work out? Your Bronco will have already been sold by the time it was resolved. Don't pretend like this couldn't also happen to you. again.

I have a signed agreement with my dealer and they are on the no ADM list, but I am still super nervous. Its not official until its official.

ok so quick question... totally just curious form a lawyers perspective :)

could you file a lawsuit, and maybe get an injunction barring them form selling said bronco till its concluded?

lol then the thing would be on their lot collecting dust till it gets settled?
 

71to21-2DR

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Love this!

(@RBF 1401)Good to meet you! We should start an AZ group, have everyone convert their orders to Granger and we can all do a road trip to pick up our Broncos 🙃

What was your experience switching to Granger or have you been Granger from the beginning of your order?
Rent a bus, divide the cost!
Caravan back as far as people share the same route
 

Nodrama43

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@chtucker . . . Much Thanks clarification . . .

Does anyone know if the Buyer (Pittsburgh) got it resolved ?? . . MSRP ??

Does it do any good if the Buyer calls Ford Customer Care ?? . .
Have Ford put a Fire under the lousy dealer ?? . .

Heard that some Buyers have tweeted Mike Levine and then he gets into it . . .
I just called the dealership. I was told by a sales person they sold the Bronco to the woman who ordered it.
 

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Just sent this to Mike Levine.
 
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