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fschael

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t3n2and4

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I don't know why Ford is not looking the engineers, purchasing managers and Production director here on Bronco 6G to produce this Bronco and fulfill our orders in less than a month.

Non of those spoiled brats that only complaint and whining about why Ford didn't do that or this or even suggesting to give the Bronco production to another company, Have ANY IDEA of the automotive complexity industry or even to run a business on that industry.

Ask to Elon Musk why is more expedite to build and lunch Rocket to the space than launching a new vehicle to the market. Now add to that complexity all the struggle in the last year that not even a simple gallon of primer from Sherwin-williams you can find since April.

The only reason that this launch has been longer than usuals is because they make it public in 2017 that that program was under development thanks to the critics of the former US president to the American Brands that they were taking the less important vehicle production overseas.

At this moment there should more than a dozen of programs that y'all don't even imagine that they exist and we will heard about it in five years or more.

I bleed blue, Ford has been in my mind since I was a little kid and I had the enormous opportunity to work at Ford and I know a hint of those complexity.

I can assure y'all that Ford is doing everything in their power to fulfill our orders ASAP without compromising the quality and the safety of everybody, from general labor to customers.

So, BE PATIENT and enjoy the fact that y'all are living this times and soon or later going to have a wonderful vehicle in your garages.
SpaceX built rockets faster because the tech and patents were out there to be lifted from existing government contractors, sometimes complete with the people who had built the last versions of it right down to the machinists. LA already had a rocket making supply base that just needed to be tapped. Building cars was tougher due to needing to build UP a supply base and not having ready made concentrated workforce to recruit. Much easier to make parts when you’ve got the drawings.
 

t3n2and4

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This smells like Ford chose the Lowest Price Technically Acceptable Contract (Webassto) with no back up plan. It obviously blew up in their face.

The scary part is Webassto is still on the hook to make the painted hard tops.
A bit oversimplified, but not super far off the mark with supply base things. Some suppliers are really great at selling sizzle - but there’s an achilles’ heel lurking in the spec.

Doing it once for a prototype is an entirely different thing than getting it repeatably… thousands of times in a row. My suspicion is fitting the parts together required tighter tolerances than they expected and the first batch of tooling resulted in bad yields. (Few parts that can be used) but still some usable parts. Root cause on why tooling is producing bad parts is hard anytime - but devilish in composites. You fix one area to break another. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Add construction and COVID delays… and this is our problem.

I would be curious to know how long the ramp up for an alternate supplier is. So far as I can tell, Stellantis makes their hardtops in-house.
 

MadMan4BamaNATL

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A bit oversimplified, but not super far off the mark with supply base things. Some suppliers are really great at selling sizzle - but there’s an achilles’ heel lurking in the spec.

Doing it once for a prototype is an entirely different thing than getting it repeatably… thousands of times in a row. My suspicion is fitting the parts together required tighter tolerances than they expected and the first batch of tooling resulted in bad yields. (Few parts that can be used) but still some usable parts. Root cause on why tooling is producing bad parts is hard anytime - but devilish in composites. You fix one area to break another. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Add construction and COVID delays… and this is our problem.

I would be curious to know how long the ramp up for an alternate supplier is. So far as I can tell, Stellantis makes their hardtops in-house.
This is a good take and makes a ton of sense.

On the subject of a secondary supplier; many have made good points on this, but just so everyone understands, Webasto holds no patents on these tops; Ford does, as it's Ford's product.

The issue here is likely a contract with a clause for exclusive supply put in place to justify the cost of ramp up, training, tooling, materials, and history between the two companies.

Ford's design schematics would go to whoever, but it is possible that Webasto hasn't breached their contract (lots of usable excuses) and at this point with Ford seeming desperate, a new supplier would likely start with a more expensive contract, as this is a very public fuck up.

Business just doesn't operate based on quick fixes; at least not successful businesses. If Ford is bringing an additional supplier online, they're doing so in a covert manner, which would be smart. So, all of this talk on what they "should do" isn't based on any business logic.

Basically, this shit isn't easy to figure out and execute on. That's why people who work for auto manufacturers earn what they do. If Ford could, they would have all of our orders out the door last week. Further, Webasto's reputation is now in the shitter, not sure what it means for them long term since they're a big supplier, but their normal fees will be cut during negotiations moving forward because this is a clear test case of their failure to deliver proper results.
 

2021badlands bronco bob

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Why open a second plant if you can't find workers for the first plant. That's marketing double-speak. We're going to expand the facility where we can only make half of the products. We have half the necessary people in twice the necessary space. Wow, I feel so much better.

They built the plant in 2019, to build tops in 2021, and they still don't have enough workers. Huh.
See... there you go thinking.. you obviously are not management material.LOL 🤣
 

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airishfan

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A bit oversimplified, but not super far off the mark with supply base things. Some suppliers are really great at selling sizzle - but there’s an achilles’ heel lurking in the spec.

Doing it once for a prototype is an entirely different thing than getting it repeatably… thousands of times in a row. My suspicion is fitting the parts together required tighter tolerances than they expected and the first batch of tooling resulted in bad yields. (Few parts that can be used) but still some usable parts. Root cause on why tooling is producing bad parts is hard anytime - but devilish in composites. You fix one area to break another. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Add construction and COVID delays… and this is our problem.

I would be curious to know how long the ramp up for an alternate supplier is. So far as I can tell, Stellantis makes their hardtops in-house.
you are right but they are the same company that makes tops for jeeps and other vehicles so they not new at it and why them/Ford wait so long or last min to get them done.I am a tool&die maker and why tooling failed is one not made right or design right or engineer right .
 

fschael

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SpaceX built rockets faster because the tech and patents were out there to be lifted from existing government contractors, sometimes complete with the people who had built the last versions of it right down to the machinists. LA already had a rocket making supply base that just needed to be tapped. Building cars was tougher due to needing to build UP a supply base and not having ready made concentrated workforce to recruit. Much easier to make parts when you’ve got the drawings.
Bussiness complexity. You already explain the reasons on why is more complex.
 

Los

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I think this cow has been cooked and chewed over and over, the only thing we all can do is wait, unless you're fed up of waiting and willing to throw in the towel. I am sticking to my order as is w/o changes. I just hope to see it before 2021 is over and that the dealer will not decide to go crazy on me.
 

t3n2and4

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Bussiness complexity. You already explain the reasons on why is more complex.
I’m not sure I followed your point. Atlas rockets are why Falcon exists. Dragon cargo *literally* used drawings taken from the NASA database of parts made by other suppliers. If you’re building something and major components are ready to go lego style and the major design problem is holding them up next to each other you’ve got a big head start.
 

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I don't know why Ford is not looking the engineers, purchasing managers and Production director here on Bronco 6G to produce this Bronco and fulfill our orders in less than a month.

Non of those spoiled brats that only complaint and whining about why Ford didn't do that or this or even suggesting to give the Bronco production to another company, Have ANY IDEA of the automotive complexity industry or even to run a business on that industry.

Ask to Elon Musk why is more expedite to build and lunch Rocket to the space than launching a new vehicle to the market. Now add to that complexity all the struggle in the last year that not even a simple gallon of primer from Sherwin-williams you can find since April.

The only reason that this launch has been longer than usuals is because they make it public in 2017 that that program was under development thanks to the critics of the former US president to the American Brands that they were taking the less important vehicle production overseas.

At this moment there should more than a dozen of programs that y'all don't even imagine that they exist and we will heard about it in five years or more.

I bleed blue, Ford has been in my mind since I was a little kid and I had the enormous opportunity to work at Ford and I know a hint of those complexity.

I can assure y'all that Ford is doing everything in their power to fulfill our orders ASAP without compromising the quality and the safety of everybody, from general labor to customers.

So, BE PATIENT and enjoy the fact that y'all are living this times and soon or later going to have a wonderful vehicle in your garages.
Tell your bosses to send an honest email, with actual useful information and maybe I would be more patient. Also, don’t lecture your customers, it’s bad for business
 

fschael

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Tell your bosses to send an honest email, with actual useful information and maybe I would be more patient. Also, don’t lecture your customers, it’s bad for business
Information that you don't like doesn't mean that it isn't honest
Tell your bosses to send an honest email, with actual useful information and maybe I would be more patient. Also, don’t lecture your customers, it’s bad for business
Please cancel your reservation. That way mine can move forward.
 
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Information that you don't like doesn't mean that it isn't honest

Please cancel your reservation. That way mine can move forward.
Lol, with people like you working for Ford I may.
 

Heffe66413

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“another facility could be in the works”

Could be….as in maybe, but not really sure…..

WTF? If Web-kick me in the face-asto can’t find workers then PAY THEM MORE!!

I’m sitting in purgatory now, known around here as the local DMV attempting to get plates for my “in between” vehicle. Killing’ me smalls.
I feel your pain. I ordered my specialty plate for my Bronco in January. After I got it I then sold the vehicle it was registered to. So if I don’t get my a bronco by may of 2022 I am screwed.
 

cricex

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Switched to soft top + conversion kit yesterday, will pick up a hard top down the line. Have had enough of this fiasco and want to put it behind me.
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