What changes you think Jeep will make to the Wrangler??

[BR0NCO]

Make D44’s standard and D60’s on the Rubicon with hydro assist on all of them which will address much of the death wobble and be beneficial offroad

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[Heffe66413]

@dcg2 yeah, we definitely disagree. I think the Bronco will be nixed before SFA in the Wrangler. SFA is a more robust way to do things, simpler, easier maintenance. It's just better in most cases, especially off road. The "death wobble" and ride quality arguments are mostly marketing. There are differences, but they are not dramatic or drastic, not necessarily amazing versus dismal.

The Bronco will be hugely popular for three years, then the novelty will wear off and it'll just be another "car". It'll handle well, but it won't set itself apart from the competition. GOAT modes have been around already (although not called that), it's not new. IFS has been around forever and provides a good ride in competitor's vehicles, so Bronco isn't offering anything new there either. The competition has been offering lockers, limited slips, automatically controlled braking that creates a limited slip function to all four wheels. The Bronco really isn't offering anything new, but Ford is marketing the sh*t out of the Bronco to make it appear that its technology is something better, which it really isn't. It's good, but not different.

Bronco was built as a Wrangler fighter but that doesn't mean Jeep needs to respond by changing to be more like the Bronco. The Wrangler has been killing the competition by staying true to its roots, for decades.

I understand what your saying but I am not sure I agree. We are at a time in our society where ruggedness is the opposite of the woke generation. I see the Bronco as status vehicle for the rugged, independent , person.

 

[North7]

The thing is, who knows what the new leadership wants.

Jeep is a brand CEOs are looking to milk for as much cash as they can. Are they looking to burn down the brand to increase next quarter profits, will they ride the safe decreasing revenue into the buggy whip graveyard or something else? Maybe they see more money internationally by just putting a jeep body on a Fiat500 and selling the American image to other countries

They already did that when Fiat bought Jeep, it's called the Renegade.

2016 Fiat 500X vs. 2016 Jeep Renegade: Two Peas, Different Pods

 

[Marauder]

Wait for it...

retro-square lights

 

[flatlander40]

The vast majority of buyers are mall crawlers and Bronco is a true competitor in Jeep’s realm as a 4x4 drop top. Bronco ups the ante a bit more with a better ride for those mall crawlers.

Time will tell

 

[Marauder]

A tono-cover option to protect your shopping bags when driving as a convertible from Target.

this will be preceded with an Alicia Silverstone commercial that shows her talk-to-text her tweets and utilizing the newly installed selfie cameras in the dash, center Rearview-Mirror, and sun-visor that auto-syncs to Instagram all while curbing the New Jeep Sasha Edition and not caring because it’s meant for off-roading

 

[AcesandEights]

There is an ongoing thread over at JLWranglerForums about it. It’s dozens of pages long and is one of the most active forum posts. The steering box in the JL is awful and jeep has tried to fix it. Some people report improvement after it’s been replaced, others see no difference and then some get it replaced and say it starts out good but after a few months it’s back to wandering.

There have been complaints about "death wobble" at least since the 1990s, so 25 years or so. Wrangler continues to cement itself as the off road SUV of the decade(s).

As an example, I see you have a 2015 Explorer. I don't hear a lot of complaints about the 2015 Explorer, maybe the forums are full of people complaining though, probably dozens of pages, because there are six recalls on the 2015 Explorer for powertrain, suspension, wheels, and the parking brake. The same year Wrangler has half as many recalls.

My 2017 Fiesta has 32 complaints, for 15 different issues, filed with the NHSTA (no recalls). When I bought my Fiesta I opted for the manual transmission. The salesperson was kind enough to say, well at least you won't have trouble with that. It made me feel good about the transmission, but then the oil pan started leaking, the display went out, several trim pieces fell out, one was found broken I don't know how. I could get the oil pan gasket fixed just before the warranty expired, but I have a dead screen most of the time, to the tune of $2,000 (quoted to have it replaced, where the service advisor said, yeah, that happens a lot with those cars). I have broken and lost trim pieces (that fell out when opening the door). The car "clunks" when it's cold, just like the Ford before it (which Ford refused to address it completely dying while traveling 75 mph on the freeway, losing power brakes and power steering, full engine shut down, whole nother thread), because the control arm bushings get hard. Sounds like a covered wagon traveling the Oregon Trail any time the temperature falls below 35-degrees.

Point is, the Jeep has "suffered" from death wobble for decades. It hasn't been "fixed" because it is annoying to some, while most never encounter it at all. But, it's not a safety issue that has warranted a recall (it's an alignment issue, usually dealing with caster adjustment).

So, Ford is doing exactly what they need to do, exploit a non-issue, make it a big one, in order to get people who don't know the difference to think it's an actual issue that should prevent them from buying the competition. The Bronco won't be any better than the last vehicle Ford rolled off the assembly line. It'll have axle boots that wear too fast, rotors that overheat and warp, it'll have electronics that die, spark plugs that blow out of the head, it'll have parking brakes that are weak and don't hold, etc., etc. Bronco is not special. It is not a beautiful and unique snowflake...

None of that is a reason for Wrangler to change a proven, winning, formula.

 

[Axe]

The humongous thread on the JL forum isn't for death wobble, it's for play/dead spot in the steering/wandering at highway speeds. It's what kept me out of a JL and into a Bronco.

 

[Dirty Bronco]

There have been complaints about "death wobble" at least since the 1990s, so 25 years or so. Wrangler continues to cement itself as the off road SUV of the decade(s).

As an example, I see you have a 2015 Explorer. I don't hear a lot of complaints about the 2015 Explorer, maybe the forums are full of people complaining though, probably dozens of pages, because there are six recalls on the 2015 Explorer for powertrain, suspension, wheels, and the parking brake. The same year Wrangler has half as many recalls.

My 2017 Fiesta has 32 complaints, for 15 different issues, filed with the NHSTA (no recalls). When I bought my Fiesta I opted for the manual transmission. The salesperson was kind enough to say, well at least you won't have trouble with that. It made me feel good about the transmission, but then the oil pan started leaking, the display went out, several trim pieces fell out, one was found broken I don't know how. I could get the oil pan gasket fixed just before the warranty expired, but I have a dead screen most of the time, to the tune of $2,000 (quoted to have it replaced, where the service advisor said, yeah, that happens a lot with those cars). I have broken and lost trim pieces (that fell out when opening the door). The car "clunks" when it's cold, just like the Ford before it (which Ford refused to address it completely dying while traveling 75 mph on the freeway, losing power brakes and power steering, full engine shut down, whole nother thread), because the control arm bushings get hard. Sounds like a covered wagon traveling the Oregon Trail any time the temperature falls below 35-degrees.

Point is, the Jeep has "suffered" from death wobble for decades. It hasn't been "fixed" because it is annoying to some, while most never encounter it at all. But, it's not a safety issue that has warranted a recall (it's an alignment issue, usually dealing with caster adjustment).

So, Ford is doing exactly what they need to do, exploit a non-issue, make it a big one, in order to get people who don't know the difference to think it's an actual issue that should prevent them from buying the competition. The Bronco won't be any better than the last vehicle Ford rolled off the assembly line. It'll have axle boots that wear too fast, rotors that overheat and warp, it'll have electronics that die, spark plugs that blow out of the head, it'll have parking brakes that are weak and don't hold, etc., etc. Bronco is not special. It is not a beautiful and unique snowflake...

None of that is a reason for Wrangler to change a proven, winning, formula.

Eh, I should’ve broken it down further so I apologize. My point for more for the average consumer who is looking at the bronco vs wrangler (keep my recall happy explorer out of this). From personal experience, I have owned a wrangler and have friends who own them. I have family who has rented them and test driven them. The SFA issue isn’t just death wobble. It’s the inability to maintain a straight line on even casual roads. I checked the JL forums page today and it’s over a 1000 posts long on this issue. My point was... the general consumer who goes in with their mindset on getting a wrangler or a bronco will likely notice the road characteristics of the bronco vs the jeep. I’m not arguing what SFA can do off-road. Jeep has a winning formula off-road for sure! But you’re fooling yourself id you don’t think that formula is funded by the average consumer/mall cruiser.

I think you make some great points but I also think some of them are a little off. Your last statement basically says the bronco won’t be any different from any other vehicle Ford has made. I think that’s a silly statement considering it’s well documented the overhaul they went through to make this product. Jeep barely changed anything from the JK to the JL. If it’s not broke don’t fix it right? Well the issue here is jeep didn’t have any competition in this segment for a LONG time. Recent reviews of the Bronco Sport indicate it’s mopping the floor of the equivalent jeep models. You really think Ford didn’t go above and beyond in the research and attention to detail on the big bronco, their halo model? They absolutely did which is also why it’s taking them so damn long to roll it off the assembly line.

One last point... I LOVE Wranglers. Owned em, rent them, drive my friends when he lets me. It’s my favorite vehicle but FCA has really pooped their pants from all the cake theyve been eating over the years. The Jeep brand in general is NOT reliable. My brothers and I have all owned Jeep’s, my friends all have grand cherokees and wranglers. Everyone of them have issues. The wrangler guys put up with it because they like the rugged suv/top off lifestyle. On the other hand, my company is all Ford and while we’ve had some issues here and there, the sample size is much bigger than that of the Jeep’s and the issues have been far fewer.

I realize based on your post I’m not going to be able to convince you the Bronco is a legitimate threat to the Wrangler. I’m just wondering why you’re here at this point if you feel that strongly.

 

[AcesandEights]

My last comment wasn't about the Bronco v Ford. It was about Bronco v every other mfg, but it doesn't really matter because we see things differently. I think the Bronco was already built, by Toyota, by Jeep, by Land Rover. Jeep remains.

Why am I here. I think, therefor I am. More specifically, I have a relatively early reservation. Bronco6G offers a lot of information. I reserved a Bronco because I learned to drive at age 13. I learned to drive a three-on-the-tree International Harvester and Ford Bronco. During the summer, I was thrown the keys to a Ford Bronco and told not to hurt myself and I spent the summer driving around the Mojave desert. I've got an emotional connection to the Ford Bronco, and reserved one early.

I'm an analytical person, typically not emotional. I try not to let my emotional connection cloud my knowledge and understanding of things, and I come here and try to be objective about things. I look at the specs, the stats, the data and make conclusions. Although I "want" a 1964.5 Ford Bronco, I'm not going to let that "want" make my truth. The truth is.

This thread was about Jeep's response to the Bronco. Jeep knows their shit and they make exactly the product they sell. Consumers, mall crawlers want an image, a look, and don't care what's underneath, they don't know the difference, as long as the brand's off road prowess is confirmed by the die-hards, the adventurer, the overlander, the rock crawler. Take away the die-hard off roader, take them out of the picture, disconnect them from the Wrangler, and then that image dies and you lose both the die-hard and the wanna-be. Jeep moves away from what it is to be a Jeep and they won't gain mall-crawlers, they'll lose what it is to be a Jeep and they lose both.

 

[NCOBX]

This thread was about Jeep's response to the Bronco. Jeep knows their shit and they make exactly the product they sell. Consumers, mall crawlers want an image, a look, and don't care what's underneath, they don't know the difference, as long as the brand's off road prowess is confirmed by the die-hards, the adventurer, the overlander, the rock crawler. Take away the die-hard off roader, take them out of the picture, disconnect them from the Wrangler, and then that image dies and you lose both the die-hard and the wanna-be. Jeep moves away from what it is to be a Jeep and they won't gain mall-crawlers, they'll lose what it is to be a Jeep and they lose both.

Which is exactly where Land Rover finds themself this very day, not a single tough off-road vehicle in their stable, not even the image. They took their halo vehicle, the Defender, which is recognizable world wide and turned it into a minivan with crossover proportions. Tata literally took a unibody crossover platform and added the halo defender name to it. To save face they then built special off-road obstacles and trails for this van that the Hazzard boys could fly through on their Charger.

I strongly believe if Jeep wants to take on the Bronco they should set about building a High speed trailing vehicle to compete with the Bronco - not turn the Wrangler into a vehicle it was never designed to be.

 

[Deleted member 3063]

There have been complaints about "death wobble" at least since the 1990s, so 25 years or so. Wrangler continues to cement itself as the off road SUV of the decade(s).

Make that 70yrs or so, dad's 1951 would death wobble. After we replaced all the easy pieces in the front end it got better, a little.

 

[AcesandEights]

When I google death wobble, it auto populates Ford, Dodge, Jeep, motorcycle and Chevy. Must be a Jeep thing. I'm guessing that's what those, "It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand" are referring to.

 

[NCOBX]

Which is exactly where Land Rover finds themself this very day, not a single tough off-road vehicle in their stable, not even the image. They took their halo vehicle, the Defender, which is recognizable world wide and turned it into a minivan with crossover proportions. Tata literally took a unibody crossover platform and added the halo defender name to it. To save face they then built special off-road obstacles and trails for this van that the Hazzard boys could fly through on their Charger.

I strongly believe if Jeep wants to take on the Bronco they should set about building a High speed trailing vehicle to compete with the Bronco - not turn the Wrangler into a vehicle it was never designed to be.

Furthermore, the fact an off-road brand, Jeep, has only one real off-road vehicle is mind boggling. They need more options to those that want a good basic off-roader, not fill the lot with soft roaders for Abigail, Brittany, Emma and the rest of the Sorority.

We should want Jeep to finally offer a second option not change up the Wrangler.

 

[Apples]

This thread was about Jeep's response to the Bronco. Jeep knows their shit and they make exactly the product they sell. Consumers, mall crawlers want an image, a look, and don't care what's underneath, they don't know the difference, as long as the brand's off road prowess is confirmed by the die-hards, the adventurer, the overlander, the rock crawler. Take away the die-hard off roader, take them out of the picture, disconnect them from the Wrangler, and then that image dies and you lose both the die-hard and the wanna-be. Jeep moves away from what it is to be a Jeep and they won't gain mall-crawlers, they'll lose what it is to be a Jeep and they lose both.

I agree that the Wrangler brand survives on the backs of the diehard fans and that will keep Jeep from changing the essential "Jeepiness" of the Wrangler.

And I agree that most people who buy a Wrangler really don't care what's underneath hood or under the vehicle. While the diehards make the brand cool, the mall crawlers are the ones making Jeep profitable. What those people care about is ride quality, creature comforts, and fun factor.

Presented with an alternative option, in the Bronco, how many will opt for the tech heavy, comfortable to drive, zippy engined vehicle that still lets them take the doors and roof off? Reservation numbers seem to indicate a whole lot.

Jeep doesn't want to lose a single one of those people. So what does Jeep offer to keep them coming back to the Wrangler?

That's what this thread is about. Not that the Wrangler is better in the top 10% of offroad prowess (it is), or whether there are significant compromises to owning one setup or the other (there are).

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