Ford don’t be a one trick poney remember the half cab Ute you will need one to complete with the gladiator to complete the bronco portfolio or else fall behind in the fight for suv supremacy
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Ford don’t be a one trick poney remember the half cab Ute you will need one to complete with the gladiator to complete the bronco portfolio or else fall behind in the fight for suv supremacy
I have, horribly. And it was slightly egged out holes in track bar/shock mount, frame bracket in my first 78.I have seen three rigs with bad death wobble, and all of them were clapped out and in need of some TLC.
yes..... @ about 70/80 mph on I195 E going surf fishing @ 5am …..humbling to say the leastAny type of suspension can get death wobble. It is most pervasive on solid axles with track bars, but it certainly isn't limited to that configuration. The thing about death wobble is that it generally is caused by worn out components (track bar bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints), but is typically exacerbated and initiated by poor suspension geometry due to badly executed modifications.
Have you ever experienced actually death wobble? I have owned many solid axle vehicles that get used hard, some with completely custom suspension and steering, and I have never experienced death wobble in one of my own. I have seen three rigs with bad death wobble, and all of them were clapped out and in need of some TLC.
People will have there preferences, and yes it sounds like you will be disappointed. I don't know if I can put you at ease at all, but let me try:I keep hoping Ford won't disappoint me with another lame IFS soft-roader, but seeing as you seem to know some inside information, it seems I am destined for heartbreak.
TTB and A-arm IFS are completely different animals, not to mention, the IFS systems on Ultra4 rigs has absolutely nothing in common with the IFS systems on production vehicles. Yes as I've said before, IFS can be made to perform if you have deep pockets and don't mind the extra complexity. However, it can't compete with a solid axle on technical terrain.
I agree with pretty much all of that. I think the raptor is certainly an exception to other IFS rigs from an engineering perspective. But like you said, they are rarely seen out on the trail. As you pointed out, they are very large, and also very expensive. As cool as the raptor is, it does not target the same market as the jeep. Yet another reason I am thankful the bronco will be based on a midsize platform. Naturally, the bronco will have a more narrow frame than the F-150 so that it can have long arms without quite as long of a overall width. Unfortunately a production bronco diff will not get to be made as narrow as an Ultra-4 rig, there are a lot of other package issues OEM's have to deal with. At the end of the day I hope the bronco, IFS or not will be seen on the trails next to jeeps based on competitive performance, sizing, and pricing. We are long overdue, dont the jeep guys get bored seeing the same familiar face?Don't apologize for the length of the post! It was well worded and you obviously are pretty knowledgeable. As I mentioned, it seems like you know some inside information, so I appreciate your insight.
Let me explain a few of my comments.
As for Ultra4, my point is that the IFS setups you see are not based on OEM A-arm designs at all. They use centered differentials based on Ford 9" and Dana 60s typically (solid axles in OEM form) with very long fabricated boxed A-arms and knuckles with spherical joints and hydraulic ram steering. You are correct, the solid axles are heavily modified as well, and many certainly do not have a single part in common with a factory axle. My point is that they are based on factory axle designs such that many of the parts found on Ultra4 solid axle cars could be bolted or welded onto a factory axle. I would be surprised if the same could be said for any of the IFS cars. Strictly speaking about the unlimited class of course. Also, solid front axle cars are still quite competitive in the unlimited class, in fact Erik Miller, one of the top drivers, still runs one.
A well done A-arm IFS can perform well in most terrains and situations, but even perfected, there is still quite a bit of give and take compared to a well-setup solid axle. The problem as you pointed out is that the vast majority of modern 4x4 A-arm designs are lacking. The aluminum clamshell differential housings are weak and are notorious for splitting in half with a locker in the rocks. The short A-arms severely limit travel as you pointed out. The OEM CV axles are typically pretty weak and aftermarket upgraded axles are extremely expensive compared to upgraded solid axle shafts. Clearance is typically worse than a solid axle, especially during suspension compression. The rack and pinion steering setups are fragile compared to the recirculating ball boxes and linkages found with solid axles. Suspension kits are more expensive for A-arm IFS and more complicated to install. Even with "long travel" A-arm designs, they still don't articulate as well as a solid axles. They lift tires and are typically less stable when twisted up.
My background is in rock crawling and I can tell you, IFS rigs start disappearing rapidly the more difficult the trails you go on are. On the hardest trails, I have never seen IFS rigs. The Hammers are the exception, but frankly the Ultra4 rigs tend to winch through all the hard sections. As for the Raptor being the shining example of an offroad capable IFS, I have never seen one on a real trail. Hell, I can't even recall ever seeing one in the dirt in person. They are certainly capable trucks in a class of their own, but I think the issue is that they are simply too big to fit down most trails. The trails are dominated by late model Jeeps these days. You see them on everything from easy dirt roads to full on extreme rock trails. They are very capable and versatile, and honestly I find myself getting a bit Jealous. You see Rubicons with not much more than a modest lift and some bigger tires running trails that you used to need a fully built rig and lots of experience to run just 15 years ago.
You seem to be confident that the Bronco will hold its own against the Jeep with an IFS, but obviously I am skeptical. Popularity on the trail will tell the tale, so I suppose we will see in time how it compares.
I had Sync2 on my Fusion, and currently have Sync1 on my Focus and Sync 3 on my Mustang. Sync3 is a whole different world of excellent from previous iterations. Everything is easy to use, screen is super responsive, picture is clear, etc.Not really a styling question but I am curious about the infotainment system that'll be in the Bronco. Currently, Ford runs Sync 3 which (thankfully-finally) runs Android Auto (I think Apple Carplay too?). Does anyone have any experience with Sync 3? If so, would you consider it pretty smooth and intuitive - maybe when compared to good aftermarket head units? I recall the original Sync being fairly clunky but that was about 5 years ago and I'm assuming alot has changed since then.
That's really more a limitation of the suspension than of the driveline. "Moon buggies" are independent and have great articulation, but no major auto manufacturer will ever try to sell one, the consumer base just isn't worth it. Side-by-sides do it, but they don't have convenient ingress/egress or people/cargo space that most consumers demand.@TeocaliMG - you and NM had a good back and forth. Going back to IFS, I recall Dana confirming that they're building the driveline - using their AdvanTek line for both the Bronco and the 2019 Ranger (I recall a 2017 Automotive News article confirming this).
As you mentioned, the Ranger IFS, at this point, is fairly conservative. I haven't been able to find it, but would you happen to know if the Raptor's more capable IFS is a Dana unit or not? I'm curious as to the range of capabilities the Dana AdvanTek offers for IFS. Note - the Dana AT line comes both in solid and IFS so the Bronco is still up in the air, I'm just curious about Dana's IFS capabilities in the event it goes that direction.
I see, so the only part Dana may be involved in is the CV shafts (driveline) for a front IFS? I just wasn't sure the extent Dana mfgs the front end on an IFS.That's really more a limitation of the suspension than of the driveline
They do rock "bouncing"Moon buggies most certainly do not have independent suspension, they are solid axle. No one runs independent suspension in competitive rock crawling.
I'm a solid axle guy all the way, but it's hard not to give credit watching that rig.No one runs independent suspension in competitive rock crawling.
Understood, then I agree.........I am talking about actual rock crawling like W.E. Rock.