Who is the "Tinkerer" of Bronco? Looking for different suspension lifts and real articulation specs!!!

[BisSilent]

I have a Badlands 4 door non-SAS coming in after a wait from July 2020. This guy makes the "mechanical engineer" in me not want to change anything other than put 315x70rx17 on my Bronco. Is there a post out there that compares different lift kits and the amount of travel and articulation they provide???

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[rtaylor]

I have a Badlands 4 door non-SAS coming in after a wait from July 2020. This guy makes the "mechanical engineer" in me not want to change anything other than put 315x70rx17 on my Bronco. Is there a post out there that compares different lift kits and the amount of travel and articulation they provide???

• The non-sas "black" coilovers have limited articulation. If you use a lift that only adds external spacers (e.g. leveling kit), then articulation will not get worse. Preload spacers will harm typical articulation.
• Upgrading to sasquatch or badlands bilstein take-offs will improve wheel travel. Most aftermarket will also improve travel over non-sas, but most do not publish specs.
• The best articulation (for simple upgrade) is Icon stage3+ coilovers with 35" tires. They have articulating top hat, long springs, and unique rear orientation/mounting to maximize travel.

 

[35tires]

That person's videos were so interesting I watched them all when I first got into off roading. Great stuff and applies to all vehicles. I have seen comparisons of shocks like king vs icon on the bronco, but no one doing full write ups or real in depth stuff

 

[BisSilent]

• The non-sas "black" coilovers have limited articulation. If you use a lift that only adds external spacers (e.g. leveling kit), then articulation will not get worse. Preload spacers will harm typical articulation.
• Upgrading to sasquatch or badlands bilstein take-offs will improve wheel travel. Most aftermarket will also improve travel over non-sas, but most do not publish specs.
• The best articulation (for simple upgrade) is Icon stage3+ coilovers with 35" tires. They have articulating top hat, long springs, and unique rear orientation/mounting to maximize travel.

Are you sure about leveling kits not causing articulation issues...did you watch the video?

Did you watch the video... the aftermarket coilovers didn't help articulation. Not saying all aftermarket lifts do the same but it is worth investigating.

I haven't looked into the Icon Stage 3.

 

[rtaylor]

Are you sure about leveling kits not causing articulation issues...did you watch the video?

Did you watch the video... the aftermarket coilovers didn't help articulation. Not saying all aftermarket lifts do the same but it is worth investigating.

Information concerning the Toyota IFS design doesn't apply. In Bronco, the coilover itself is the min and max bump stop and determines wheel travel. That is why the non-SAS, Badlands, SAS, and aftermarket wheel travel is different.

 

[Bmadda]

I have a Badlands 4 door non-SAS coming in after a wait from July 2020. This guy makes the "mechanical engineer" in me not want to change anything other than put 315x70rx17 on my Bronco. Is there a post out there that compares different lift kits and the amount of travel and articulation they provide???

IFS is counterintuitive as far as lift heights and articulation. Non sas BL is the best out of the box. Virtually any lift you add will impact articulation to some degree (and won't make it better regardless of what anyone tells you). That said Bronco IFS provides way more flex than any other IFS I have worked on...it's a damn good starting point. You are always limited by the length of the LCA/UCA, and the operating range of the coilover, whereas w/a SFA setup you simply add more spring/shock length and instantly gain more travel...even to the point the vehicle is difficult to drive at higher speeds. You wana see what you gotta do to have the best of both worlds? just look at Braptor...The whole vehicle is wider to accomadate longer control arms. It's an awesome setup for sure, but causes it's own problems if you wheel on the types of trails usually reserved for jeeps...can be just too wide to get through alot of spots. There is no easy solution. There are Raptoresque kits out there that increase travel a bunch (Baha kits I think), but make wheeling difficult in the midwest where I live. What works for you depends on where you wana go!

 

[rtaylor]

FYI, here is comparison of icon spacer vs. coilover lift (2.5-3").

They both have the same wheel droop and CV angle (determined by overall extended length). However, the Icon coilover has improved up-travel (shorter compressed length) and therefore improved overall wheel travel. The sasquatch tophat spacer has negligible effect on wheel travel in this case.

This is what the compression bump stop looks like inside front sasquatch. You can see the approx stroke on measure tape. Wheel travel is approx 1.5X the stroke.

This is aftermarket published specs for comparison. Icon maximized wheel travel in their design as a competitive feature.

 

[BigMeatsBronco]

FYI, here is comparison of icon spacer vs. coilover lift (2.5-3").

They both have the same wheel droop and CV angle (determined by overall extended length). However, the Icon coilover has improved up-travel (shorter compressed length) and therefore improved overall wheel travel. The sasquatch tophat spacer has negligible effect on wheel travel in this case.

This is what the compression bump stop looks like inside front sasquatch. You can see the approx stroke on measure tape. Wheel travel is approx 1.5X the stroke.

This is aftermarket published specs for comparison. Icon maximized wheel travel in their design as a competitive feature.

I've shaved my bump stops to increase the stroke. re-position/ re-drill the rear shock mounts in new location. both of these have increase my wheel travel. I have over 12" in front. my plan is to use longer Braptor suspension arms, however I plan to re-drill and relocate the lower control arms mounting points on the frame....I will move them inwards about 1.5" ....this will allow more travel without being super wide. Best of both worlds for me.
obviously the tie rod length and CV bar lengths need addressed as well.
once this is done, I'll chop off the top of the coilovers mount and extend it up at least 3" . this will allow for a much longer coilover with alot more travel. my goal is 15"+ of wheel travel front and rear.

 

[87-Z28]

I've shaved my bump stops to increase the stroke. re-position/ re-drill the rear shock mounts in new location. both of these have increase my wheel travel. I have over 12" in front. my plan is to use longer Braptor suspension arms, however I plan to re-drill and relocate the lower control arms mounting points on the frame....I will move them inwards about 1.5" ....this will allow more travel without being super wide. Best of both worlds for me.
obviously the tie rod length and CV bar lengths need addressed as well.
once this is done, I'll chop off the top of the coilovers mount and extend it up at least 3" . this will allow for a much longer coilover with alot more travel. my goal is 15"+ of wheel travel front and rear.

Curious. Just trying to learn.

If you are trying to go from 12 to 15 inches of wheel travel that is 25% more. Getting longer LCA to increase wheel amplification from 1.5 to about 1.9 should get you there. I think current LCA is 15” long with struts mounted around 10”.

Is braptor LCA about 19” long? Are struts still mounted at 10”? I guess if you can move LCA pivot inward by a couple of inches you would only stick out 2” or so. Would probably need to increase spring rate by 25% also, since increasing LCA wheel motion also increases leveraged loading on struts. Am I thinking about that correctly? Probably won’t need to do much with shocks. Only 25% increased spring rate may be fine for SAS shocks.

Any extra leverage above current LCA or 1.5 seems like a big win. I am new to this 4x4 stuff but it seems the stock bronco LCA leverage (1.5) is kinda low? Is that true? Are there any other IFS 4x4 platforms higher?

I was reading many of your threads. I think you have done a nice diff drop that keeps the diff oriented nicely with the drive shaft. Curious if you have noticed any stress or vibration in the drive train because of that?

Do you think you could get the longer LCA in there and maintain good geometry with respect to the diff drop? Assuming you can get the CV shaft and tie rod lengths to workout.

Very curious to see all the things you are trying to get worked out. Keep posting progress. It is great to learn from you guys with lots of hands on experience.

 

[87-Z28]

This is what the compression bump stop looks like inside front sasquatch. You can see the approx stroke on measure tape. Wheel travel is approx 1.5X the stroke.

That looks just like the bump stop I pulled out of my hitachi shocks. Are they the same? Why is it in there if the SAS shocks have significantly increased damping at both ends of travel? I guess it is extra conservative but maybe a much shorter one could also work.

Do you know what the extended length of the icon stage 3 shocks are in the front? Or spring rates?

 

[rtaylor]

That looks just like the bump stop I pulled out of my hitachi shocks. Are they the same? Why is it in there if the SAS shocks have significantly increased damping at both ends of travel? I guess it is extra conservative but maybe a much shorter one could also work.

Do you know what the extended length of the icon stage 3 shocks are in the front? Or spring rates?

I think the stock bump stop is conservative. Some cut them off for rock crawl, and aftermarket progressive springs require them to be cut down as well.

Icon length specs here. I don't know the spring rate.
https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/icon-front-rear-coilovers-for-bronco.37676/

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